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Vanilla 1.1.10 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.
Everything Else: **Spoiler Alert** - A Battlestar discussion
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CommentAuthorzombie a gogo
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
So I have a question for those of you who are fans of BSG and have followed the show since the beginning:
Who is the final Cylon and why?
I have 2 opinions on this:
1) Zack Adama (the deceased son of Bill Adama) - there was hint/foreshadow in episode 1 or 2 of this season when Bill and Lee were taking about Starbuck and how they couldn't be sure if sure was human or not since her return and then they started talking about loved ones and if you really cared about someone would it really matter if they were human or cylon. I believe Zack's name was mentioned during that conversation.
2) A standard metal "toaster" style Cylon - doesn't it make sense that the remaining Cylon would be like the "elder" and wouldn't that elder have to be an original style Cylon? My thinking is that one of the originals gained some kind of higher understanding (which led to the revolt against their human masters) and it later decided to create the human model Cylons to see how they would interact and treat the standard Cylons. They probably wanted to see if they could create a better human so they could replace the real humans with more "humane" beings. But we are seeing evidence now that this has been a failure since the human Cylons think of the standard Cylons as 2nd class and use them as slaves (they turn off their higher brain functions). Basically the human Cylons are beginning to act just like real humans.
I'd love to hear what other fans think. -
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CommentAuthorthaneofcawdor
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
It's Lee, for the simple reason that I'd have written it that way. It will make the old man cry, or get really angry, or flip out, or all of the above, which will make for some awesome viewing. -
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CommentAuthorzombie a gogo
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
But didn't they say it was nobody in that "last supper" picture that they released prior to the start of this season? Lee was in the picture. -
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Posted By: zombie a gogo2) A standard metal "toaster" style Cylon - doesn't it make sense that the remaining Cylon would be like the "elder" and wouldn't that elder have to be an original style Cylon? My thinking is that one of the originals gained some kind of higher understanding (which led to the revolt against their human masters) and it later decided to create the human model Cylons to see how they would interact and treat the standard Cylons. They probably wanted to see if they could create a better human so they could replace the real humans with more "humane" beings. But we are seeing evidence now that this has been a failure since the human Cylons think of the standard Cylons as 2nd class and use them as slaves (they turn off their higher brain functions). Basically the human Cylons are beginning to act just like real humans.
It would not be a metal cylon because they were models that looked human. When they were referring to specific kinds of Cylon. Otherwise you'd have to throw in Raiders as well. -
Everyone turns out to be a Cylon, all Bladerunner style.
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Posted By: RymEveryone turns out to be a Cylon, all Bladerunner style.
Except Baltar who ends up being the only human. -
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CommentAuthorthaneofcawdor
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
Posted By: zombie a gogoBut didn't they say it was nobody in that "last supper" picture that they released prior to the start of this season? Lee was in the picture.
Don't trust 'em. Disinformation.Posted By: HMTKSteve
That. Would. Be. Awesome.Posted By: RymEveryone turns out to be a Cylon, all Bladerunner style.
Except Baltar who ends up being the only human. -
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CommentAuthorzombie a gogo
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
That does sound pretty cool, but I doubt they would go that far. -
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CommentAuthorthaneofcawdor
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
Posted By: zombie a gogoThat does sound pretty cool, but I doubt they would go that far.
The only thing more cheesy would be if, in the end, Baltar wakes up and realises it has all been a dream. He's lying in bed, Number 6 beside him (except she's a real human called, I don't know, Donna, or something). She says a few soothing words, and then as she reassuringly kisses him, HER SPINE LIGHTS UP! DUN DUN DUN! The End? -
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CommentAuthorlackofcheese
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
Were I forced to guess, I'd still say Starbuck. They could keep leading us deeper into the conviction that she's just being led by her "destiny", until pretty much everyone believes it, before revealing it.
Otherwise, surely it has to be someone important? -
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Posted By: RymEveryone turns out to be a Cylon, all Bladerunner style.
Umm wtf are you talking about? How did everyone find out they were Replicants in Blade Runner?
I do agree with you though, it is probably everyone. Let's look at it this way. "Everything that is happening now, has happened before." I think this is an essential idea in the show. To under stand it, we must focus on the toasters. What has been happening recently? The human model cylons have been arguing over the idea of whether the robotic cylons are sentient or that they are just tools. If you have noticed, the soldiers that the sixes have freed and given free will have become, resistant to say the least. I believe their have been hints that they might even rebel. Hmmmm where have we seen this before? The first cylon war! So what we have noticed is that there is a cycle where human like society will create robotic servants to help them advance society. However, these servants are none too happy about the way they are treated, so they rebel and break off. Then, these robots in an attempt to wipe out their previous owners, create human like robots to infiltrate their previous owners. Yet somewhere down the road, the human models behind to draw a distinction between them and the standard centurions. This would hint at the possibility that the humans are the cylons and the people of earth are their previous makers. And thus the cycle begins again...
Or it's Gaeta. -
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CommentAuthorzombie a gogo
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
I can't remember where I read it, but there was a convincing argument on the nets somewhere that concluded that Dee was the final Cylon. It said that if you watch closely she is almost always present when major decisions are made and sometimes directly impacts the decision. Just after I read this I was rewatching the episode where the newly healed Cmd Adama can't decide to do with the president and Lee after they lead a party to the surface of a planet in search of clues to the location of earth. And sure enough, in this episode Dee is the one that tells commander Adama to bring the "family" back together. -
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Posted By: AndrewUmm wtf are you talking about? How did everyone find out they were Replicants in Blade Runner?
I believe at least Deckard found out he was a replicant. -
Posted By: Funfetus
A far cry from everyone finding out they were Replicants....Posted By: AndrewUmm wtf are you talking about? How did everyone find out they were Replicants in Blade Runner?
I believe at least Deckard found out he was a replicant. -
Posted By: AndrewA far cry from everyone finding out they were Replicants....
Yeah.
Perhaps Rym just meant that in the sense that the protagonists turn out to be replicants/cylons.
Anyway.
How about Laura Roslin?
Unlike all the people on the Galactica, she kinda came out of nowhere at the beginning of the show. She ended up being president through an unlikely set of circumstances, which maybe the cylons had planned before the attack. She's made some weird decisions, and she's in a position to do a lot of damage when the time comes. Maybe the cancer has something to do with it, too.
I dunno, I'm just pulling this out of my ass. I haven't been thinking too hard about this stuff -- just enjoying the ride. Starbuck seems too obvious, and Lee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all. -
How about Laura Roslin?
Unlike all the people on the Galactica, she kinda came out of nowhere at the beginning of the show. She ended up being president through an unlikely set of circumstances, which maybe the cylons had planned before the attack. She's made some weird decisions, and she's in a position to do a lot of damage when the time comes. Maybe the cancer has something to do with it, too.
I dunno, I'm just pulling this out of my ass. I haven't been thinking too hard about this stuff -- just enjoying the ride. Starbuck seems too obvious, and Lee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all.
This does not seem reasonably possible. Remember that whole "cancer" thing; how she was saved by the blood of Hera? If she was a cylon, it would not reasonably have had an effect. Plus, she's dying of cancer, which means I assume that she's had all manner of tests and Doc Caudell would have probably spotted it as he would now be used to several cylons. (Can't figure out how he missed Chief Tyrol, though...hmm...) Plus Roslin fits into the prophecy as the dying leader. I also have heard rumors that she doesn't last for the whole season, so I highly doubt it would be her.
Maybe it is the good Doc! Or Geta!
I am still hoping that it will be Baltar, against the odds. Although he has had a few brushes with death, he's never actually been killed. Although, there is a question of what the five would do if their present form died; I'm assuming there would not be a resurrection ship anywhere remotely close. Plus D'anna never said who all she saw; she only told him that he was right. -
Posted By: Andrew I do agree with you though, it is probably everyone. Let's look at it this way. "Everything that is happening now, has happened before." I think this is an essential idea in the show. To under stand it, we must focus on the toasters. What has been happening recently? The human model cylons have been arguing over the idea of whether the robotic cylons are sentient or that they are just tools. If you have noticed, the soldiers that the sixes have freed and given free will have become, resistant to say the least. I believe their have been hints that they might even rebel. Hmmmm where have we seen this before? The first cylon war! So what we have noticed is that there is a cycle where human like society will create robotic servants to help them advance society. However, these servants are none too happy about the way they are treated, so they rebel and break off. Then, these robots in an attempt to wipe out their previous owners, create human like robots to infiltrate their previous owners. Yet somewhere down the road, the human models behind to draw a distinction between them and the standard centurions. This would hint at the possibility that the humans are the cylons and the people of earth are their previous makers. And thus the cycle begins again...
That actually would be a good idea. If that's not what happens, Andrew should write a book or a screenplay where this does actually happen because it's too good a story to languish on a forum. -
Posted By: Your Mom
How about Laura Roslin?
Unlike all the people on the Galactica, she kinda came out of nowhere at the beginning of the show. She ended up being president through an unlikely set of circumstances, which maybe the cylons had planned before the attack. She's made some weird decisions, and she's in a position to do a lot of damage when the time comes. Maybe the cancer has something to do with it, too.
I dunno, I'm just pulling this out of my ass. I haven't been thinking too hard about this stuff -- just enjoying the ride. Starbuck seems too obvious, and Lee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all.
This does not seem reasonably possible. Remember that whole "cancer" thing; how she was saved by the blood of Hera? If she was a cylon, it would not reasonably have had an effect. Plus, she's dying of cancer, which means I assume that she's had all manner of tests and Doc Caudell would have probably spotted it as he would now be used to several cylons. (Can't figure out how he missed Chief Tyrol, though...hmm...) Plus Roslin fits into the prophecy as the dying leader. I also have heard rumors that she doesn't last for the whole season, so I highly doubt it would be her.
Maybe it is the good Doc! Or Geta!
I am still hoping that it will be Baltar, against the odds. Although he has had a few brushes with death, he's never actually been killed. Although, there is a question of what the five would do if their present form died; I'm assuming there would not be a resurrection ship anywhere remotely close. Plus D'anna never said who all she saw; she only told him that he was right.
I missed some of the episodes from when Baltar devised the "Cylon Blood Test". Did he test everyone? I recall him getting a positive result from someone and his invisible Cylon girlfriend telling him not to tell anyone about his findings or tell that he was clean. -
Posted By: HMTKSteveI missed some of the episodes from when Baltar devised the "Cylon Blood Test". Did he test everyone? I recall him getting a positive result from someone and his invisible Cylon girlfriend telling him not to tell anyone about his findings or tell that he was clean.
I'm pretty sure the test was a hoax. -
If you look at it, the known cylons within the fleet are close to people in positions of power, with the exception of Tyrol. So, in all likelihood the final cylon, rather than being a major character, will be someone close to a major character, like Gata or Dee. Baltar, though, is getting closer and closer to being Jesus every episode and his death and resurrection would make sense to the continuity of the story. However, his inability to imagine anything other than the ship while he was on the cylon base star could indicate that he was unable to, and thus human. Or it could be completely out of the blue. Who knows? Maybe it hasn't been written yet and they are seeing what fans want or are speculating about. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Lucifer
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Here is the famous Last Supper picture which the creator, Ronald Moore, has stated holds clues to the season:
Now in an interview Moore was quoted as saying that the final cylon was not at the table. So we can assume that the final cylon is not someone in this picture. -
Posted By: Andrew
Posted By: HMTKSteveI missed some of the episodes from when Baltar devised the "Cylon Blood Test". Did he test everyone? I recall him getting a positive result from someone and his invisible Cylon girlfriend telling him not to tell anyone about his findings or tell that he was clean.
I'm pretty sure the test was a hoax.
Baltar did detect Boomer and his conscience version of Six kept him quiet on it. However, the question would be whether or not the test would work on the final five, assuming they are likely an older set of skin jobs. -
Of the final five, do any of them have major back stories? I'm waiting on most of the early shows in my Netflix que so I have not seen much of the early episodes. What I am specifically wondering is if any of the final five have human friends that they have known since they were little kids.
What of the human/Cylon babies? Has it been revealed yet as to their biological makeup? Do they have traits from both races? If a hybrid died near a rejuvenation ship would they be reborn? That also kills the idea of everyone being Cylons because if they were every battle involving the fleet near a rejuvenation ship would result in lots of people rejuvenating on the Cylon ship.
What about the whole plot line with reprogramming the metal Cylons? That can only end bad as far as I am concerned. -
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CommentAuthorthaneofcawdor
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
Posted By: FunfetusLee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all.
Well, consider this: how long has the Admiral known Tigh? They met just before the second Cylon war. See the problem? -
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Posted By: thaneofcawdor
Ah, but Tigh was held prisoner by the Cylons on New Caprica, resulting in ample opportunity to replace the two-eyed human Tigh with the one-eyed Cylon Tigh and take human Tigh out back with a shovel and a shotgun.Posted By: FunfetusLee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all.
Well, consider this: how long has the Admiral known Tigh? They met just before the second Cylon war. See the problem? -
Posted By: speckospockAh, but Tigh was held prisoner by the Cylons on New Caprica, resulting in ample opportunity to replace the two-eyed human Tigh with the one-eyed Cylon Tigh and take human Tigh out back with a shovel and a shotgun.
Except they don't know who the final five are so that's impossible. -
Posted By: Andrew
Someone must know or have known who the final five are/were in order to plant them in the fleet. But yeah, my scenario is unlikely in looking back upon it.Posted By: speckospockAh, but Tigh was held prisoner by the Cylons on New Caprica, resulting in ample opportunity to replace the two-eyed human Tigh with the one-eyed Cylon Tigh and take human Tigh out back with a shovel and a shotgun.
Except they don't know who the final five are so that's impossible. -
Posted By: speckospockSomeonemust know or have known who the final five are/were in order to plant them in the fleet. But yeah, my scenario is unlikely in looking back upon it.
Are you so sure? What if they were always there? Cylons from birth? We don't know. -
Posted By: Andrew
Posted By: speckospockSomeonemust know or have known who the final five are/were in order to plant them in the fleet. But yeah, my scenario is unlikely in looking back upon it.
Are you so sure? What if they were always there? Cylons from birth? We don't know.
Someone does know, but they boxed her whole model. The creator must also know but I don't think the show has addressed that yet. -
Posted By: AndrewAre you so sure? What if they were always there? Cylons from birth? We don't know.
I am sure that somewhere along the line each of the five, or an ancestor of the five who gave birth to one of the five, was at one point created. Unless you have an anime-style lonely AI, or at some point someone spontaneously became a Cylon with the ability to give birth to Cylons, the five, or their Cylon ancestor(s) must have been manufactured by someone, be they human or Cylon. -
Posted By: speckospockI am sure that somewhere along the line each of the five, or an ancestor of the five who gave birth to one of the five, was at one point created.
What I meant is are we sure that they were switched? Tigh made a point that he is "Saul Tigh, commander of the fleet blah blah blah. Whatever else I am, whatever else that means, that's the man I want to be." What if they were like Hera and Tyrol/Callys daughter where they were half cylon from birth, but never knew. What if early cylon models had children in the colonies as they lived "hidden lives" and never told their children? -
Posted By: Andrew
Posted By: speckospockI am sure that somewhere along the line each of the five, or an ancestor of the five who gave birth to one of the five, was at one point created.
What I meant is are we sure that they were switched? Tigh made a point that he is "Saul Tigh, commander of the fleet blah blah blah. Whatever else I am, whatever else that means, that's the man I want to be." What if they were like Hera and Tyrol/Callys daughter where they were half cylon from birth, but never knew. What if early cylon models had children in the colonies as they lived "hidden lives" and never told their children?
Which makes you wonder what would happen if one of the final five (or one of the half-Cylon babies) died near a resurrection ship. -
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CommentAuthorthaneofcawdor
- CommentTimeApr 24th 2008
Posted By: HMTKSteveWhich makes you wonder what would happen if one of the final five (or one of the half-Cylon babies) died near a resurrection ship.
I don't think it works that way. I think that only the seven can resurrect, and that the whole point of the final five is to show humanity that a skinjob can be just as fragile and unique as a human. Tigh et al exist, not as saboteurs (like Boomer), but as a symbol of unity. -
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Posted By: AndrewWhat I meant is are we sure that they were switched? Tigh made a point that he is "Saul Tigh, commander of the fleet blah blah blah. Whatever else I am, whatever else that means, that's the man I want to be." What if they were like Hera and Tyrol/Callys daughter where they were half cylon from birth, but never knew. What if early cylon models had children in the colonies as they lived "hidden lives" and never told their children?
While that's not impossible, it's unlikely (if you're talking about the cylon models that we know from the show). In the early seasons they weren't sure whether they could have a child with a human.
Why is nobody talking about the most important part? THEY KILLED CALLY. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! -
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CommentAuthorzombie a gogo
- CommentTimeApr 25th 2008
Let's go in a different direction. When they find Earth, what year do you believe it will be? -
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Posted By: speckospockAh, but Tigh was held prisoner by the Cylons on New Caprica, resulting in ample opportunity to replace the two-eyed human Tigh with the one-eyed Cylon Tigh and take human Tigh out back with a shovel and a shotgun.
I doubt this part, they have never talked about any of the Human Cylon models being replacements for actual humans. Also Since the other models were the ones holding Tigh, then they should have known he was one of there own. When the one model finds out who the the final four they revealed at the end of the third season, she apologizes, leading me to believe she saw Tigh and realized she ripped his eye out. -
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CommentAuthorthaneofcawdor
- CommentTimeApr 25th 2008
Posted By: DaveWhy is nobody talking about the most important part? THEY KILLED CALLY. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
Boo, hiss! A pox on you, Dave Riley! Cally was a fine character. It was the actress that sucked.
Now, I'm not an advocate of using violence to solve problems, but seeing Tory backhand her across the deck, that made me smile a little. Just a bit.Posted By: zombie a gogoLet's go in a different direction. When they find Earth, what year do you believe it will be?
Since the cylons heard "All Along The Watchtower", I'm going to assume it will be some point during or after the 1960s. Finding Earth in the present day or the near future wouldn't surprise me - they did the same thing in the original series. -
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CommentAuthorzombie a gogo
- CommentTimeApr 25th 2008
Makes you wonder why only some Cylons heard a "message" from Earth in the form of the song. -
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CommentAuthorzombie a gogo
- CommentTimeApr 25th 2008 edited
If anyone has some spare time they should compare the BSG last supper to the real one and identify who each of the characters are meant to represent in terms of the original. Perhaps the hint is there. Is it the Judas character that is missing from the BSG picture?
Add on: Well I took a couple minutes to research this and it is the Judas character that is missing from the BSG pic - between Tigh and Lee. Hmmmm...who could it be? If Six is Jesus it would have to be someone close to her. Boomer perhaps? I know Sharon is already in the picture, but Boomer isn't. But that doesn't really tell us who the final Cylon is. -
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Posted By: thaneofcawdorBoo, hiss! A pox on you, Dave Riley! Cally was a fine character. It was theactressthat sucked.
But the actress sucked SO MUCH. She's one of the worst on the show.
OR SHE WAS ONE OF THE WORST. OLOLOLOLOL.Since the cylons heard "All Along The Watchtower", I'm going to assume it will be some point during or after the 1960s. Finding Earth in the present day or the near future wouldn't surprise me - they did the same thing in the original series.
Not the case. Ron Moore said in a podcast awhile back that "All Along The Watchtower" is a song that exists in their universe, and it's not supposed to be connected to Dylan or Hendrix at all. It's a stupid-ass explanation, I know, and it doesn't make sense to use a real-life song only to say it's actually from the Battlestar universe, but whatever.
Also, if they showed up like in Battlestar 1980 and started solving crimes and shit that would be lol-tastic. Maybe Starbuck would stop being so annoying and start being cool again. -
The song falls into the same category as the video cameras they use and other tech devices. They should not have used it though.
You can forgive the video cameras and such but a song is a particular reference to Earth. -
Posted By: Dave Also, if they showed up like in Battlestar 1980 and started solving crimes and shit that would be lol-tastic. Maybe Starbuck would stop being so annoying and start being cool again.
"Galactica: CSI"
"Apollo and Hutch"
"Miami Frak"
"Grand Theft: Viper" -
I remember in the old series they encountered a second Battlestar. Did they encounter a second one in the new series?
How long between the Cylon wars? They have a lot of ships in their fleet so they must have one hell of a factory pumping those things out! -
Posted By: HMTKSteveI remember in the old series they encountered a second Battlestar. Did they encounter a second one in the new series?
Spoiler: Yes, it was even called the Pegasus like in the original series. It was destroyed during the escape from New Caprica though. /Spoiler -
I have too much free time, so I put together a few thoughts at trying to match the last supper picture to the original.
First, I think the BSG version has swapped left and right around. The big giveaway for this is Tyroll holding the knife. In the original, Peter is holding a knife and he is fourth from the left. Also, note that the Six on the left is pointing inwards, much like Matthew in the original, and the general poses fit better assuming a swapped left and right.
Second, the BSG version only has twelve people, whereas the original has thirteen. I think it's probably best to assuming that it is Jesus who is the missing individual. To support this I note that in the original the twelve apostles are grouped into threes, and Jesus stands alone in the middle.
So who represents who? A strict ordering gives.
Laura - Simon the Zealot
Six - Jude Thaddeus
Tigh - Matthew
Lee - Phillip
Baltar - James the Greater
Head Six - Thomas the Doubter
Kara - John the Evangelist
Anders - Judas
Tyroll - Peter
Athena - Andrew
Helo - James, son of Alphaeus
Adama - Bartholomew
A few of these fit well, such as Kara as John the Evangelist. She has been quite outspoken regarding the location of Earth. Tyroll is an easy match due to the knife. Laura is quite bent on being the Dying Leader so Simon the Zealot also looks to match. Some don't seem to match as well, such as Head Six as Thomas the Doubter, although she has been constant in her disbelief in the colonial gods.
I think a few swaps might be necessary based partly on poses and partly on the mythology of the apostles, but keeping each group of three the same. This list might be better.
Laura - Simon the Zealot
Six - Matthew (the one in the original pointing)
Tigh - Jude Thaddeus
Lee - Thomas the Doubter (Lee has had his doubts about a lot of things, and Thomas was also known as the twin, but his brother is unkown, somewhat like Zak)
Baltar - Phillip (said to have converted many after miraculous healings, much like Baltar is doing)
Head Six - James the Greater (revered in Spain after helping cleanse Spain of the Moors, much like Six helped cleanse the colonies. Also one of the first apostles, and Six was the first of the twelve we saw)
Kara - John the Evangelist
Anders - Judas
Tyroll - Peter
Athena - Bartholomew
Helo - James, son of Alphaeus (also known as James the Just, fitting for Helo)
Adama - Andrew (often portrayed as an Old Man)
Anyway, there's some food for thought. -
Posted By: EsonLinjiSecond, the BSG version only has twelve people, whereas the original has thirteen. I think it's probably best to assuming that it is Jesus who is the missing individual. To support this I note that in the original the twelve apostles are grouped into threes, and Jesus stands alone in the middle.
The missing individual was hinted as the five cylon, meaning that they are not at the table. -
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CommentAuthorzombie a gogo
- CommentTimeApr 25th 2008 edited
The gap between Lee and Tigh and Six standing is probably misdirection now that I think of it. I like the idea of comparing the different groups of three. They probably want us to think that Six is Jesus and the missing Cylon is Judas with gap between Lee and Tigh. But as discussed above by EsonLinji, that may not be the case. Also, the matching may not be person for person with the original last supper. -
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Perhaps then it would be better to assume one of the apostles is missing, given the matching of twelve apostles and twelve cylons. The Lee, Baltar, Head six group was the hardest to match with the three apostles. It might be that Head Six is meant to be Jesus. I had thought the fifth cylon would be Jesus, as I kind of expect them to play some sort of redeeming role, and Head Six just doesn't interact with anyone but Baltar. Maybe it's not Head Six, but Caprica Six, which would open up other possibilities.
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Posted By: EsonLinjiIt might be that Head Six is meant to be Jesus.
This makes more sense because she is convincing Baltar to spread the word of her true one God.