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Vanilla 1.1.10 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.
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CommentAuthorthaneofcawdor
- CommentTimeFeb 7th 2010
This game is amazing.
It's a mix of Master of Orion (classic 4X game) and Silent Hunter (a WWII submarine sim), but with the detail cranked way up.
For example, in my current game I've decided to start from the present day, 2010. You have to research nearly all space technology from scratch. You have one spaceship construction facility, which I named the Kennedy Space Center, 10 research centres and four chief scientists (meaning a maximum of 4 research projects at a time), and a bunch of outdated industry that you must convert to either space industry, space mines or space fuel refineries. Somehow you have to take all that and turn it into an empire. Oh, and the minerals on Earth SUCK. Most run out in less than a decade.
I'm a few years into the game, I've built a mining colony on Mercury and one in the asteroid belt, and they send packets of minerals back to Earth via mass driver, great. So, I'm plodding along, when out of nowhere I'm informed that a CIVILIAN SHIPPING LINE (whaaaa?) has built one of my freighter designs and now intends to help me transport stuff to the colonies if I pay them a fee. Awesome. Not long after that, a civilian mining colony pops up on Proteus, a moon of Neptune, and they offer to either sell minerals to me for some space bucks, or I receive some taxes on their enterprise. Now, it's not particularly realistic that a mining colony would just pop up out of nowhere, but the idea of an independent private sector in this kind of game is startling, and AFAIK, unique.
More civilian antics: I had started a colony on Mars, which despite having no Trans-Newtonian minerals, was mildly habitable with the addition of Infrastructure that I made on Earth. So I send my freighters loaded with enough infrastructure to support 100,000 colonists, and soon after, I send two colony ships with those colonists. I repeat the process until about 500,000 colonists have been transported, at which point I notice that the Martians have begun to create their own infrastructure. Not long after that, a shipping line creates its own colony ship and starts transporting colonists - and pays me taxes on every shipload! Not only that, but I read that the civilian lines will begin to transport their own, civilian-made infrastructure if the population of Mars comes within 10% of the maximum population allowed by current infrastructure levels. So, basically, at this point I could sit back and watch as the private sector gradually colonises the entire system! That would leave me free to spend my resources on research, building up a military and exploring the rest of the galaxy.
There is much more I could say about the game (like the mysterious jump gate I found near Saturn, or how you assign, promote and decorate your space navy officers, or how you design not only your ships, but their components too, etc.), but if any of that sounded even remotely interesting, you should go to the game's forum, sign up and download the game, then tell us how your empire is going! -
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You misspelled 'magic' as 'space' a bunch of times. I'll just wait for Praetor's 4x space game. It already promises to be more awesome because of superior programmer.
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CommentAuthorthaneofcawdor
- CommentTimeFeb 7th 2010
Posted By: Owns male genitalia.You misspelled 'magic' as 'space' a bunch of times. I'll just wait for Praetor's 4x space game. It already promises to be more awesome because of superior programmer.
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Posted By: thaneofcawdor[facepalm]
How pathetically retarded. If you don't want people replying to your thread, don't make a thread, okay? You're an idiot if you think this game is amazing in its current incarnation. The 1280x1024 minimum resolution is moronic and unnecessary, the number of windows is stupid and can be combined into one, and the number of errors that are stereotypically vague show it's a true alpha (unlike DF's psuedo-alpha that are mostly stable and rarely throw up any errors). It's not worth your time to play at the moment. And here I was even so kind as to inform you of another upcoming 4x game that looks a lot more promising.
Also, 'magic' is the right word. You don't mine space you fucking moron, you mine planet cores for magic rocks fromOUTER SPAAAACEa wizard did it. The game would work better if you envisioned the planets as oil platforms. -
Sorry, the game is terrible. If I wanted to play a spreadsheet, I would do EVE online.
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CommentAuthorthaneofcawdor
- CommentTimeFeb 7th 2010
Posted By: Owns male genitalia.How pathetically retarded. If you don't want people replying to your thread, don't make a thread, okay? You're an idiot if you think this game is amazing in its current incarnation. The 1280x1024 minimum resolution is moronic and unnecessary, the number of windows is stupid and can be combined into one, and the number of errors that are stereotypically vague show it's a true alpha (unlike DF's psuedo-alpha that are mostly stable and rarely throw up any errors). It's not worth your time to play at the moment. And here I was even so kind as to inform you of another upcoming 4x game that looks a lot more promising.
See, the problem is, you're not entirely wrong. It is poorly programmed. It does look like shit. It should and could have a better interface. It is an alpha-quality release. I agree with you completely on those points, and you said all that on the earlier thread (hence, the demotivator). Where I disagree is, I happen to think it's worth playing. It involves game mechanics that I haven't seen replicated in any other game of this type, and I wrote about some of that in my first post on this discussion. I understand if you don't like it, and I can live with that. But if you're going to trash it because of it's technical faults, well, it is a free game made by only one or two people, so a piece of software as complex as this is never going to be perfect or without bugs under those circumstances.
Also, 'magic' is the right word. You don't mine space you fucking moron, you mineplanet coresformagic rocks fromOUTER SPAAAACEa wizard did it. The game would work better if you envisioned the planets as oil platforms.
Just to let you know, I called them "space mines" because you use them to acquire the space resources needed to make space ships, not because I thought you used them to harvest resources from the nothingness of outer space. But I can see why you might be confused. Dumbass.
As for the "magic rocks" stuff, I guess you're right - space games with magic in them are pretty lame.PraetorPraetor !GlgAJEGbr. 11/04/09(Wed)19:05 No.6570131
Yeah, pretty lame.
>>6570008
Of course, do not expect accurate star system modeling or anything like that. We are talking about a game where space wizards space wizardsspace wizardssummon giant tentacles to invade neighbouring stars, and can teleport star systems over dozens of light years for a negligible energy investment, after all. -
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Posted By: thaneofcawdorIt is poorly programmed. It does look like shit. It should and could have a better interface. It is an alpha-quality release.
The thing is, So is Dwarf Fortress, and he plays that all the goddamn time. -
Posted By: Churba
Dwarf fortress is getting significantly better on the coding front. They actually have proper OpenGL implementation now if you check out the new beta versions (40d16 is the newest). On the issue of the interface of DF, it's not nearly as horrible as the Aurora interface. Once you get past the ASCII, it's actually quite efficient and elegant. You just have to be able to "see the Matrix code" in order to understand what is happening in the game.Posted By: thaneofcawdorIt is poorly programmed. It does look like shit. It should and could have a better interface. It is an alpha-quality release.
The thing is, So is Dwarf Fortress, and he plays that all the goddamn time. -
Posted By: AndrewDwarf fortress is getting significantly better on the coding front.
Yes, but it's had far more time to improve, if you look at it the same amount of development time from when Aurora started, it was a pile of garbage. Or am I the only one that remembered those vicious, deadly creatures spoken of fearfully in legends, the carp? -
Posted By: ChurbaOr am I the only one that remembered those vicious, deadly creatures spoken of fearfully in legends, the carp?
That's a feature, not a bug. -
Posted By: AndrewThat's a feature, not a bug.
Keep telling yourself that. -
Posted By: Churba
Welcome to the first law of delivering software on time.Posted By: AndrewThat's a feature, not a bug.
Keep telling yourself that. -
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CommentAuthorWindUpBird
- CommentTimeFeb 7th 2010
This is how Dwarf Fortress is actually programmed (or so I hear):
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CommentAuthorSemi-Random Omnutia
- CommentTimeFeb 7th 2010
Ok, I'm no programmer but even I can see that there's got to be a more efficient way of doing that. -
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Oh yeah, I forgot about this thread due to the headache it gave me.
Posted By: thaneofcawdorJust to let you know, I called them "space mines" because you use them to acquire the space resources needed to make space ships, not because I thought you used them to harvest resources from the nothingness of outer space. But I can see why you might be confused. Dumbass.
THAT'S A SUPERB IDEA! Let's call our uranium mines NUCLEAR MINES INSTEAD, OR OUR GOLD MINES JEWELLERY MINES, ORORORGETTHISTHISISGOLDEN, OUR COAL MINES CO2 MINES!!! BEST IDEA EVAR. You didn't have to specify anything about the mines, yet you did, and I told you it was retarded.Posted By: thaneofcawdorYeah, pretty lame.
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinct from magic != "magic space rocks out of fucking nowhere found in the core of planets just because I need them so that I can be more lazy in programming this thing". You seem to keep missing half my point. I personally wouldn't mind the space is an ocean fluff as much if say the fluff was all steampunky with "ÆTHER IS REAL AND IT RESULTS IN DRAG!" (inb4 accusations of me making up excuses)Posted By: ChurbaThe thing is, So is Dwarf Fortress, and he plays that all the goddamn time.
I don't play it all the goddamn time. I talk/discuss/read about it all the goddamn time. The interface itself is fine. I mean, the menu is easy as hell to read, it's all there, (almost) all the time. Sure, the (fake) ASCII soup that's the main area is sorta abstract, but once you have the basics down it becomes hard to unsee the elves riding on unicorns getting raped by machine guns firing crossbow bolts. Also, using ASCII as visuals is an aesthetic choice that doesn't deserve anymore hatred that the realistic, blooming, brown your xbox can render.
Also, DF is programmed less horrible. It is not that is has had more time to improve. It's that it has specifically taken time out of feature-building to improve. It goes through large bug fixing routines before being released and will get several bug fix updates in short succession after a major release before the next arc will be started. If this was done for Aurora, it would be far more playable.
DF's problem is just that it's doing pathfinding for dozens of dozens of creatures, temperature for every square, and weather for the entire world. We'll also be getting dorfs that blink in the next release.Posted By: ChurbaOr am I the only one that remembered those vicious, deadly creatures spoken of fearfully in legends, the carp?
That is not at all a bug. It's the result of a default bite attack given to carp, the AI behaviour of the fish when cornered, and the dorfs not having the AI to NOT JUMP INTO THE WATER OH GOD YOU MORON WHY DID YOU DO THAT NOW I HAVE TO SUFFER HAPPINESS PENALTIES AND MY BOOZE IS RUNNING LOW. FUCK YOU, YOU STUPID DORF. YOU JUST INITIATED THE "THIS FORT WILL DIE RIGHT NOW" ROUTINE. Not a bug, result of features. -
Posted By: Owns male genitalia.That is not at all a bug. It's the result of a default bite attack given to carp, the AI behaviour of the fish when cornered, and the dorfs not having the AI to NOT JUMP INTO THE WATER OH GOD YOU MORON WHY DID YOU DO THAT NOW I HAVE TO SUFFER HAPPINESS PENALTIES AND MY BOOZE IS RUNNING LOW. FUCK YOU, YOU STUPID DORF. YOU JUST INITIATED THE "THIS FORT WILL DIE RIGHT NOW" ROUTINE. Not a bug, result of features.
So, some features interact in such a way that causes unexpected, unintended, and undesired behavior? Erm...isn't that pretty much the definition of a Bug?WikipediaA software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways.
Also,We'll also be getting dorfs that blink in the next release.
Either They don't mean blinking their eyes, or they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to add before actually, y'know, making some improvements like code optimization, or adding an interface that isn't irritatingly obscure - And before you start with "Hurr durr iz so easy once you learn how to read it" - frankly, I shouldn't be required to learn how to decipher the interface just to play the game. Tribes 2 doesn't make you solve a transposition cypher before you can play, nor does Natural Selection make you crack an enigma code before you're allowed to join a server. So what compelling reason does Dwarf fortress have for having an obscure interface and no other option? -
Posted By: ChurbaSo, some features interact in such a way that causes unexpected, unintended, and undesired behavior? Erm...isn't that pretty much the definition of a Bug?
Yes, at first it was a bug, unexpected, yes, unintended, surely, undesired, maybe. A mistake on Toady's part to give them that basic attack. Now, it's a feature, desired, expected and intended. It's DF, it's supposed to be hilarious. Carp that do not hypnotize dorfs into walking into the water are not carp.Posted By: ChurbaEither They don't mean blinking their eyes, or they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to add
Yes, the blinking of eyes. This because dorfs now clean themselves. If you now rip off a dorf's eyelids, he might start soaping his eyes to clean them, instead of having his eyelids clean the eyes. It's detail. Also, the interface is fine, the menu is on the right and it's in plain English. Just because you don't like ASCII as a way to represent the objects in the game, doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you shouldn't bother playing the game. The same way you shouldn't bother looking at Aurora or EVE Online if you don't want to play Excel2.
Also, there IS another option, it's called a graphics set which largely turns it into average sprite game. Further improvements are in the future plans, but at the moment other features are being focussed on because the game is playable. Code optimizations have also already begun, see the OpenGL updates that Andrew mentioned. In the same vein, forumites have started to discuss methods on improving the pathfinding code for Toady to utilize at a later point. People have also created various programs for various goals, some for mass-job changing, some for tile editing, some for outright cheating, etc. It is also still an alpha, it's still ever-changing, like Aurora. -
Posted By: Owns male genitalia.Yes, at first it was a bug, unexpected, yes, unintended, surely, undesired, maybe. A mistake on Toady's part to give them that basic attack. Now, it's a feature, desired, expected and intended. It's DF, it's supposed to be hilarious. Carp that do not hypnotize dorfs into walking into the water are not carp.
So, it's not a bug, because it's funny, and they decided arbitrarily that they wanted it that way. Yep. Gotcha.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.Just because you don't like ASCII as a way to represent the objects in the game, doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you shouldn't bother playing the game.
I didn't say it's bad, I said it's obscure, and it's now pointless, because as you said, You can get 3rd party graphics sets, etc. Why not just incorporate either these efforts, or something based on them, into the main game?
Because the moment you do, you'll get a bunch of twats going "I WANT IT BACK IN ASCII", or, of course, they just will refuse to move to the new version, and will instead keep playing in ASCII. Yeah, the interface is "Fine" - How about moving from "Fine" to actually "Good"?
Just about every argument for the interface I've heard is either "Well I have no problems with it, It must be you" or "If you can't deal with playing in ASCII, then maybe you shouldn't play dwarf fortress" - But never a compelling argument as to why the interface shouldn't get a graphical overhaul. Just variations of "Oh, I can do it, why can't you? It's so easy for Me, You mustn't be good enough for my fantastic game, go play in your sandpit with the other stupid childeren"
Hey, How about this - how about they make a decent fucking interface that doesn't require a decryption key, and you leave the decision if I should play dwarf fortress up to me.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.Also, the interface is fine, the menu is on the right and it's in plain English.
Hey, the law is in plain English too! Shit, I'm never hiring a lawyer again!Yes, the blinking of eyes. This because dorfs now clean themselves. If you now rip off a dorf's eyelids, he might start soaping his eyes to clean them, instead of having his eyelids clean the eyes.
But a dwarf cleaning his eyes with soap is aHilarious bugfeature.The same way you shouldn't bother looking at Aurora or EVE Online if you don't want to play Excel2.
So, Tell me how Dwarf Fortress isn't just the underground-dwelling lovechild of Simcity and excel?Posted By: Owns male genitalia.Also, there IS another option, it's called a graphics set which largely turns it into average sprite game.
So, what you're saying is that if I want a decent interface for dwarf fortress, I have to go and fetch an add-on from another part of the dwarf fortress community, and use that. Cool. So, Again, What was that compelling reason that they can't just include that into the game straight up?
Like you said, people are making things for toady to utilize at some point, in the future, it should therefore be relatively trivial to add in a half-decent interface. Oh wait, I remember, I'm stupid, dwarf fortress isn't for me and maybe a shouldn't be playing it, don't mind me, I'll be over in my sandpit. -
Posted By: ChurbaSo, it's not a bug, because it's funny, and they decided arbitrarily that they wanted it that way. Yep. Gotcha.
Skiing in Tribes was a bug, now it's a fucking feature. Bunny hopping in Quake was a bug, now a fucking feature.Why not just incorporate either these efforts, or something based on them, into the main game? Because the moment you do, you'll get a bunch of twats going "I WANT IT BACK IN ASCII"
Everything can be done at once, instantly, and without problems. Graphics are part of the code, that's why you can fucking download a graphics pack and use it. Shipping every single piece of user generated content with the game is ridiculous, you do see that, don't you? It's clear you don't actually know a thing about the actual game and are just arguing to argue with me. Awesome, let's rock.How about moving from "Fine" to actually "Good"?
Okay, the interface is good. Did I do it right, Gibbs? Hell, if you ask me it is great, perfect even. It allows you to very quickly and highly efficient do what you want to do. Any mouse-based interface you can think up for this game will be WORSE. The problem is not the interface. It's idiots who don't bother reading the fucking menu when it's right there in their face. What they want is a game where all they have to do is click on people's heads and those heads explode. That's not DF. There's even such idiots recorded complaining about a lack of a manual in the game. Guess what is written on screen after the into movies end?Press ? at any time for the manual.
If you don't like abstract art, you don't fucking go to an abstract arts museum. Instead go spend your money on a ticket to a traditional arts museum if that's more to your liking. The game is a fucking roguelike, if you don't like using your fucking keyboard to play a game and looking at simple abstracted representations of objects, buy a god damned Wii and be done with it. Not every game will cater to your every desire of how the game should look, play, or smell. Even then, a lot of roguelikes have already caved in and build in ways to use sprites, just like DF. Just because DF has not yet implemented a system that allows to assign a unique sprite to every unique thing doesn't mean it's bad. It's a fucking alpha, shit is still being added like crazy, improvements on the graphics are planned. They will come in the future. Wait if you don't want to play with some tiles left as as ASCII, don't fucking complain.But never a compelling argument as to why the interface shouldn't get a graphical overhaul.
Because you've been 1) not listening to them and 2) told that improvements will come in the fucking future. While you might claim not a single compelling argument has been given, you for a fact haven't given a single argument.Hey, the law is in plain English too! Shit, I'm never hiring a lawyer again!
Yes, you can defend yourself in court. That's been possible for quite some time you know.But a dwarf cleaning his eyes with soap is a
Yes. See response to the same statement you made earlier in your post.Hilarious bugfeature.So, Tell me how Dwarf Fortress isn't just the underground-dwelling lovechild of Simcity and excel?
No spreadsheets, no Excel. Another point that shows you know nothing about either DF or Aurora or jokes for that matter. As for Sim city. Every RTS that lets you build a fucking building can then be reduced to being a lovechild of Simcity and something else.So, what you're saying is that if I want a decent interface for dwarf fortress, I have to go and fetch an add-on from another part of the dwarf fortress community, and use that.
No, I said nothing to that extent. I just said that there are possibilities if you so choose. You know, like a lot of games that are mod-able.[A] half-decent interface.
You mean change the interface you already use to type out your posts?Oh wait, I remember, I'm stupid, dwarf fortress isn't for me and maybe a shouldn't be playing it, don't mind me, I'll be over in my sandpit.
* waves -
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CommentAuthorThe Günter
- CommentTimeFeb 9th 2010
Posted By: ChurbaSo, Tell me how Dwarf Fortress isn't just the underground-dwelling lovechild of Simcity and excel?
Because of things like Boatmurdered. Dwarf Fortress, for most people, is a place to make crazy machines and crazy narratives involving rabid carp and dwarfs who wash their eyeballs. The graphics are shit, the documentation is shit, the interface is shit, but it's damn good fun if can get past all of that. If you can't, well, who cares? What's with all the malice? -
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Churba, I would like to know what specific complaints you have against the Dorf Fortress interface/controls.
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Posted By: iGünter Pro CatfishBecause of things likeBoatmurdered.Dwarf Fortress, for most people, is a place to make crazy machines and crazy narratives involving rabid carp and dwarfs who wash their eyeballs. The graphics are shit, the documentation is shit, the interface is shit, but it's damn good fun if can get past all of that.
I know. I've read almost the entirety of Boatmurdered, I lurk the Dorf fortress forums because the interest me, and the narrative possibilities are immense. It's a fantastic game, and While I didn't say anything about the documentation(though, you are correct) All I said was that the interface is shit, it's often buggy, and it's an Alpha-quality release. I didn't say anything about the graphics, as pretty much everything you could say about them is self evident as soon as you see them.If you can't, well, who cares? What's with all the malice?
I'll show you.Just because you don't like ASCII as a way to represent the objects in the game, doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you shouldn't bother playing the game.
It's arrogant, elitist shit like this, which is invariably the response to "The interface is terrible". It's always some variation of "Oh, It's fine for me! It must be you" and "Maybe dwarf Fortress isn't for you". If you want to be helpful, that's fantastic. If you want to be an arrogant cunt about your precious ASCII interface, and try at tell me if I should or shouldn't be playing, then you can choke on a bag of flaming dicks. The general "you", not the specific "you".
And now, on to Nine.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.Skiing in Tribes was a bug, now it's a fucking feature. Bunny hopping in Quake was a bug, now a fucking feature.
No, Skiing in Tribes is still a bug. In Tribes 2, due to the skiiing bug's popularity in the community around the first game, they programmed a similar thing into the game as a feature.
As for Bunny hopping being a feature, LolWut? Most Quake engine based games attempt to fix fix that in multiplayer, and the ones that don't are generally leaving it in on purpose rather than fixing it - It's gotten harder, for example, in CS 1.6, with people sometimes even using hacks and cheats so they can do it. A short bit of research shows the developers fixed it in the 1.1.0.8 patch, but with Quake 3 Arena, it was left in deliberately.
Unfortunately, leaving a bug in deliberately does not make it a feature - Unless you also consider the Pinto's Nasty habit of exploding into flames in an accident, to the disappointment(and horrible firey death) of it's occupants a "Feature"Posted By: Owns male genitalia.Everything can be done at once, instantly, and without problems. Graphics are part of the code, that's why you can fucking download a graphics pack and use it. Shipping every single piece of user generated content with the game is ridiculous, you do see that, don't you?
Really? Then I'm still waiting for that compelling reason why they don't just do it, instantly, at once, and without any foreseeable problems. Or at least, providing an obvious link to it on the Bay 12 Games site, on the same page you can download the game, instead of forcing people to hunt it down - in fact, if you didn't know to look for it, I'd doubt you'd even know it existed, and would be mighty surprised if you simply stumbled across it.
I'm not asking for every Piece of user generated content. I'm asking for a single one, which would improve the playability of the game for new players, which is an entirely reasonable request. Or are you hoping it becomes mandatory that people prove themselves by deciphering an obscure interface before they get to play your fantastic game?It's clear you don't actually know a thing about the actual game and are just arguing to argue with me. Awesome, let's rock.
And it's clear that not only are you a fanboy, but you're an arrogant, elitist fanboy. You're verbose and more intelligent in your manner than your regular fanboy, but a pig in lipstick is still a pig.
I'm hardly a fanboy, I'm still learning the game, but I do know a fair bit about it, and what I don't know, I can research easily, thanks to that magical creation called the internet. Don't assume what I do and do not know, as it's simply a waste of your time, as as you've already shown, your assumptions are not exactly the most accurate.Okay, the interface is good. Did I do it right, Gibbs?
You did quite well. In light of that, I even avoided pointing out that when you saidPosted By: Owns male genitalia.Also, there IS another option, it's called a graphics set which largely turns it into average sprite game
It sounded a lot like you were saying that the addition of a graphics set transformed it from an excellent ASCII game into an average sprite game.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.It allows you to very quickly and highly efficient do what you want to do. Any mouse-based interface you can think up for this game will be WORSE.
I didn't ask for a mouse driven interface, I asked for graphics. Silly Dutchman, Graphics =/= Mouse driven interface.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.It's idiots who don't bother reading the fucking menu when it's right there in their face. What they want is a game where all they have to do is click on people's heads and those heads explode. That's not DF.
You need to work on those assumptions. I suggest that you get to it after the Arrogant fanboyisim, you know, the thing where you assume that everyone who doesn't want to play your object of slavish devotion in it's current form obviously wants something like a simple shooter or the like, rather than having to deal with your object of fanboyisim's shitty interface.The game is a fucking roguelike, if you don't like using your fucking keyboard to play a game and looking at simple abstracted representations of objects, buy a god damned Wii and be done with it.
I didn't say anything about using anything but the keyboard. Try to stick to insulting me for the arguments I actually make, rather than insulting arguments that you've invented wholesale.They will come in the future. Wait if you don't want to play with some tiles left as as ASCII, don't fucking complain.
Development started in 2002. They've had eight fucking years. I don't want to have to wait until I'm greyer than the hair on the backside of mathusela's balls just to be able to play a game I'd like to play, but don't want to put up with the pile of shit that is dwarf fortress's interface.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.Because you've been 1) not listening to them and 2) told that improvements will come in the fucking future. While you might claim not a single compelling argument has been given, you for a fact haven't given a single argument.
1)Your arguments so far are "I think it's perfect" and "It's fine for me" with a dash of "If you don't like my ASCII, maybe it's not for you"
2)You already said they could be implemented tomorrow with no problems, therefore, "It's coming in the future" isn't a good enough excuse - and it's just that, not an argument, not an excuse.
3)My argument is thus - The interface is terrible. There is no good excuse not to improve it, as by your own admission, it could be done instantly and with no problems. Why don't you?Posted By: Owns male genitalia.Yes, you can defend yourself in court. That's been possible for quite some time you know.
I'm sorry? I can't hear you over the sonic boom produced by the point flying over your head at mach 2.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.Yes. See response to the same statement you made earlier in your post.
See response to your point I made earlier.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.No spreadsheets, no Excel. Another point that shows you know nothing about either DF or Aurora or jokes for that matter. As for Sim city. Every RTS that lets you build a fucking building can then be reduced to being a lovechild of Simcity and something else.
I was being facetious and insulting, something you're very familiar with. Do I need to lower my opinion of you and use "I'm being facetious and insulting" blue in the same manner as Sarcasm green when something is obvious?Posted By: Owns male genitalia.No, I said nothing to that extent. I just said that there are possibilitiesif you so choose. You know, like a lot of games that are mod-able.
So, What you're saying here is that You never said that to get the interface I chose, I have to go and find a mod that gives me the interface I choose to have, instead, you said that to get the interface I choose I can go and find a mod that gives me that interface. Right. Gotcha. Clear as crystal, chief.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.You mean change the interface you already use to type out your posts?
Because the moment I can use the Vanilla Forums software to play Dwarf fortress, I'll be right fucking there.Posted By: Owns male genitalia.* waves
I Admit it, I lol'ed. -
Broken up because I went over the per post wordlimit -
Posted By: AndrewChurba, I would like to know what specific complaints you have against the Dorf Fortress interface/controls.
The controls are Over-complicated - I would prefer if there were other control scheme options that group the various controls into sensible, discreet groups, though admittedly, I've not investigated this thoroughly. I have a two page printout of the controls next to me when I play. I've been thinking on how they could be improved, but not yet at length. I'll get back to you on that point.
As for the interface, it's irritatingly obscure. It's like having a very complex map with it's legend, when it doesn't need to be that complex. What they currently achieve with ASCII, they could very easily achieve with sprites, or easily provide the option right there either in or with the game to do so, rather than having to download and install a mod. It's partially irritation at the obscure interface, and partially annoyance at why they don't just make the easy improvement, or at least, provide the option along with the game. -
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CommentAuthorKate Monster
- CommentTimeFeb 9th 2010
I can dig.
And dwarf fortress is dull. -
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CommentAuthorWindUpBird
- CommentTimeFeb 9th 2010
Nethack was here.
DFII is smalltime. -
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Here is the thing Churba, there are numerous options for graphical assistants, tools, and other things to make the game more palatable. They are easy to install (just extract the files to your DF installation folder) and work seamlessly. Guess what, this is PC indie gaming, you have to work a bit to get things to work.
Pick two.
Posted By: ChurbaI have a two page printout of the controls next to me when I play. I've been thinking on how they could be improved, but not yet at length. I'll get back to you on that point.
Why? Every single thing you possibly need is listed next to you. The only controls I really have memorize are the change z-levels keys; everything else is labeled on the right. Furthermore, you can pause at anytime and search for what you want through the hierarchy. Everything is fairly well grouped together (build orders, military, structures, zones)... so I'm not sure what you mean by discrete groups.
EDIT: As for documentation, the Dwarffortress wiki is pretty fucking good. -
Posted By: AndrewHere is the thing Churba, there are numerous options for graphical assistants, tools, and other things to make the game more palatable. They are easy to install (just extract the files to your DF installation folder) and work seamlessly. Guess what, this is PC indie gaming, you have to work a bit to get things to work.
I know. But there is no compelling reason why they shouldn't at least provide the option right there with the game download. I am admittedly struggling with the traditional interface by choice. But I still see no compelling reason why it shouldn't be right there either in the game, or linked to right next to the game download. I'm being dickish to nine about it, because he's being a bit of a dick about it. I'm really rather more chilled out about it than it seems.
Well, It's in no way a developed idea. I'm working on it. I might find that what I'm thinking doesn't work nearly as well, but I have to try it to find out. I'll get back to you.
Why? Every single thing you possibly need is listed next to you. The only controls I really have memorize are the change z-levels keys; everything else is labeled on the right. Furthermore, you can pause at anytime and search for what you want through the hierarchy. Everything is fairly well grouped together (build orders, military, structures, zones)... so I'm not sure what you mean by discrete groups. -
Posted By: ChurbaI know. But there is no compelling reason why they shouldn't at least provide the option right there with the game download. I am admittedly struggling with the traditional interface by choice. But I still see no compelling reason why it shouldn't be right there either in the game, or linked to right next to the game download. I'm being dickish to nine about it, because he's being a bit of a dick about it. I'm really rather more chilled out about it than it seems.
It's within the wiki and listed in their forums, but bundling the game with the work of others can lead to some legal issues (especially because they get so much money through donations). -
Posted By: AndrewIt's within the wiki and listed in their forums, but bundling the game with the work of others can lead to some legal issues (especially because they get so much money through donations).
This is true, but surely it would be easy to get permission from these people, considering they went to the effort to mod the game? -
Posted By: Churba
Maybe, maybe not. However, if you listen to the geeknights episode with Tarn, he's not exactly open about sharing Dwarf Fortress (hence why it's not open source).Posted By: AndrewIt's within the wiki and listed in their forums, but bundling the game with the work of others can lead to some legal issues (especially because they get so much money through donations).
This is true, but surely it would be easy to get permission from these people, considering they went to the effort to mod the game? -
Posted By: AndrewMaybe, maybe not. However, if you listen to the geeknights episode with Tarn, he's not exactly open about sharing Dwarf Fortress (hence why it's not open source).
I might go back and listen to it again, I'd forgotten about that.
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