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Chinese Food

RymRym
edited January 2007 in Everything Else
Lately, I seem to be running into more and more Chinese restaurants that don't provide or even have chopsticks. Just now, a co-worker ordered some (mediocre) food. Not only did it not come with chopsticks, but they were surprised when I asked where they were.

"You actually -use- chopsticks? That's strange."

I don't think chopsticks are particularly alien, especially in downstate New York...

(I also notice a distinct correlation between a lack of chopsticks and a lack of quality food).
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Comments

  • edited January 2007
    This reminds me of how some people think Taco Bell is Mexican food!

    Near one of the offices I work out of is a small Spanish deli. When you order a burrito there all you need is one. Those things come jam packed with everything and don't cost an arm and a leg. They also carry the "sugar cane" coke.
    Post edited by HMTKSteve on
  • edited January 2007
    There is actually a big push in China to do reduce the use of disposable chopsticks because of deforestation fears. They even levied a new tax on them.

    I've got a nice set from Japan, complete with a carrying case. Not quite as convenient, but much nicer to use.

    This gets me to my pet peeve regarding chopsticks in America. Simply put, Americans use chopsticks in a way that is absurd. We look like total idiots. For items such as rice, the Japanese and Chinese bring the bowl right up to their mouth. The chopstick is used more as a shovel than as tongs. Japanese rice is also stickier than rice used in America.

    Americans, including myself, look like idiots trying to pick up loose bit of long-grain rice and bring it from the plate to our mouths. It's yet another example of image being more important than authenticity or practicality.

    So unless you're going to eat like an Asian... forget the Asian utensils.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • Yip kilarney is schooled in the ways of Azn's. Chopsticks are only used as tongs to pick up food from side-dishes (i.e. not the rice). It's generally common practice for each person to have a bowl of rice and the dishes are placed in the middle of the table. You basically pick up anything you want with the chopsticks and eat it straightaway, then "shovel" the rice into your mouth with the chopsticks. A common rice bowl is quite small and is really designed to be easily held in one hand and brought to the mouth to shovel the rice into your mouth.

    A little advice for the "gui lou''s" (means "gaijin" in Chinese), next time you're eating "Chinese" food in a restaurant and they don't serve the rice in a bowl or give you a bowl, either ask for one per person or just stick to the knife and fork. Not even us Asians can eat rice off a plate using chopsticks. ^_^
  • I am knowledgeable in the eating methods of asian peoples. I am also moderately proficient in chopstick handling. I'm definitely at the point where I don't even realize I'm using them. The muscle memory has definitely been developed. Despite that, I still am more efficient at eating with a fork and knife. If efficiency was what mattered, I would pretty much never used chopsticks.

    So why do I use them when eating asian foods? There are two reasons. The first reason is fun. I like to break them apart and play with them. The other reason is that when eating with chopsticks, the chopstick doesn't have to go in my mouth. It often does, but if I don't want it to, it won't. It's much more difficult to eat with a fork or spoon without putting the utensil itself into your food hole. With chopsticks, the only thing you have to taste is the food itself.

    Other than that, I just want to add that I am not ashamed to grab the fork to eat the remaining rice off my plate at the hibachi like some other people seem to be.

  • Other than that, I just want to add that I am not ashamed to grab the fork to eat the remaining rice off my plate at the hibachi like some other people seem to be.
    I just shovel the last bit of rice straight into my mouth. ^_~
  • As an avid student of the Japanese language and culture, I nevertheless see no reason to eat Asian food while in America with chopsticks, except for fun or pretension, when both utensils are available. Since I do not find it fun, and I choose not to be pretentious, I simply use a fork. However, if no fork is available, or it would be inconvenient (whether physically or socially) in the particular instance of dining to request one, I'll gladly use the chopsticks. I do not find it difficult.

    Forks and chopsticks have advantages and disadvantages that are not quantifiable. Of those that are, such as maximum speed of food transfer, the value of the metric is not known (i.e. is it truly "better" to be faster? or slower?). Either is fairly easy to learn. I propose that they are not comparable, so it comes to down to a combination of preference and availability.

    It seems rational that a moderate correlation between a lack of chopsticks and a low quality might exist among Asian-themed restaurants in America. However, since it is very easy to have and provide chopsticks, it does not seem likely that the reverse is true. In other words, all restaurants ranging from mediocre to excellent would likely provide chopsticks, save for outliers.

    A better question might be: why is there such a high degree of similarity between disparate Chinese fast-service restaurants in America, in terms of menu, food, and service? I'm sure a large metropolis like New York City has countless counterexamples, but in the typical suburban environment, it seems unrelated restaurants frequently have nearly identical menus, right down to the design of the menu and the prices. I could show you 5 menus from stores in my area, not owned by the same company, which are nearly identical in all but the name of the store. 2 of such stores are within a tenth of a mile of one another, on the same street!

    This degree of similarity exceeds that of differently-themed restaurants, such as Mexican- or Italian-themed ones. Sure, all Italian restaurants have spaghetti, but they don't all have an exact text correlation of 0.9.

    I hypothesize that this is because most of these restaurants contract to one or few supply services, who supply the menus (the repertoire and the paper), the foodstuffs and recipes, and even the miscellaneous supplies (bags, boxes, chopsticks, plastic utensils). It would be a valuable service for any entrepreneur looking to start a Chinese-themed restaurant in America.

    This phenomenon seems restricted to Chinese-themed fast-service restaurants.
  • ouch my brain...

    You also have to take into account the price the take-aways ask for compared to the restaurants in somewhere like China-town (I've never been to New York, but I have no doubt the food in China-town is pretty damn authentic). If you order take-away, generally you want speed and low prices as opposed to "authentic" dining. You're not looking for a gourmet meal. Pricing will be generally the same because that's how these take-aways can compete with each other.

    If you're willing to go to a proper restaurant and shell out more monies then obviously you'll expect better service and food quality.
  • As an avid student of the Japanese language and culture, I nevertheless see no reason to eat Asian food while in America with chopsticks, except for fun or pretension, when both utensils are available.
    This is spot on. For most, it's the latter reason. Unless it's "fun" to eat with eastern utensils in a western manner. It's kind of like wearing a mawashi to the movies.
  • ...but in the typical suburban environment...
    That's why I moved out of the Blackhole Sun suburbs and never looked back. ^_~ Living downstate has put me in the midst of fantastic and authentic dining. ^_^

    Chopsticks are superior to forks or spoons for things like most sushi rolls or dumplings. The former stick to forks or scoops, and the latter suffer if you pierce them before they reach your mouth. Chopsticks offer a fine level of control for retrieving and consuming specific items without breaking them within a larger dish, and function just as well as a fork for most kinds of noodles.

    I have chopsticks and forks at home, and use whichever suits whatever I'm eating.
  • edited January 2007
    Chopsticks are superior to forks or spoons for things like most sushi rolls or dumplings.
    I don't see how it much a whole lot of difference for sushi, although I agree that it's a good way to eat sushi. It's a food that works for westerners with chopsticks.

    As for dumplings, I prefer to pierce them lest I have a bite filled with dumpling goo.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • It is truly hard to find a good place to eat good Chinese food. Maybe, because I am from a different country. There is a big community of chinese people in Perú. We call Peruvian-Chinese food "Chifa" (ok, the wiki is in spanish). There is some info about it also in Peruvian cuisine.
    I do not want to sound pedantic but I haven't found a place in Virginia where I can eat really good chinese food. Maybe of the big chinese population in my country. Maybe if I go to San Francisco I would find good chinese food.
    By the way here in Virginia Chinese restaurants only give chopsticks if you ask for them.
  • So true... Anyone who has spent time in Asia will understand that 99% of our Chinese restaurants serve food that has been substantially altered for an American audience.
  • I've never been to a Chinese place that doesn't at least HAVE chopsticks. Even if you have to ask for them. Some places have them on the table but even the fast food places in the food courts have chopsticks in a container or available on request.

    I usually use them except at uni where there aren't good tables and I spill things on myself all the time.
  • There's plenty of authentic Chinese, Thai, Japanese, and what-have-you all around here. ^_^

    Granted, I enjoy some non-authentic food just as much as the real thing. Taco Bell isn't so bad as a food: those things just aren't tacos. White Castle is splendidly wonderful, but I'd abstain from calling them "hamburgers." ^_~
  • You guys are really missing the most versatile eating utensil ever devised by man: the spork, of which I am a big fan.
  • Cashew Chicken was made in Springfield, Missouri BTW.
  • Nobody thinks Taco Bell is Mexican food. They think it's Mexican-style food. It's a theme.

    The only "Mexican" food in all the world is food made in Mexico from Mexican ingredients by Mexicans. Considering that much of the Mexican recipes we're familiar with are largely spanish in origin, and many of the ingredients were originally from Spain and other parts of Europe, what does "authentic Mexican" even mean?

    There's a restaurant near my house staffed entirely by a 100% Mexican family. Their food is very "authentic". I often prefer it to Taco Bell. Sometimes, I just want Taco Bell. It is cheaper.

    The concept of authenticity is as pretentious and transient when used to describe food as it is used to describe copies of Microsoft Windows. There is no need to categorize food for simplicity when every rational player in the food game understands it on a more complex level. They know which restaurants they like and don't like. They might like some authentic ones, and other non-authentic ones. They also know you have to actually try food before you can say whether or not you like it.

    So why even categorize?
  • The concept of authenticity is as pretentious and transient when used to describe food
    Authentic food is cooked and prepared in a specific manner that is known or understood by the consumer. By eating at a restaurant that I know prepares the food in the manner I desire, I can know what to expect. If I like a certain kind of food prepared a certain way, I can easily find places that provide such.

    For example, there are Don Pablos Mexican restaurants all over the place. I enjoy their food. Then, there is the cafe Maya down here. I enjoy their food infinitely more.

    The cafe Maya bases its dishes and prepares its food based on traditional and current foods from parts of Mexico. The type of food you'll get there is vastly different from what you'll get at a Don Pablos, and is very much like what you would get in many regions of Mexico. It is authentic to the common food of that region.

    I personally much prefer this type of food to other similar "Mexican" food, so I choose to eat at places that specifically make this type of food. If someone else prefers less authentic Don Pablos food, there's nothing at all wrong with that: it's just their preference.

    Authentic doesn't automatically mean "better." It just imparts the information that this food was prepared in a specific way.
    Considering that much of the Mexican recipes we're familiar with are largely spanish in origin, and many of the ingredients were originally from Spain and other parts of Europe, what does "authentic Mexican" even mean?
    Don Pablos doesn't serve many of the dishes that are common in Mexico, and they make the ones they do serve with different ingredients and different methods. As a result, it tastes very different. It is good, but it is not authentic.

    Mexican food grew out of the mixing of indigenous foods with those of the conquerors, and evolved over the years based on cultural, societal, and economic pressure. Mexican food is distinct from Spanish food and, although many Spanish roots can be seen in Mexican dishes, pre-Spanish influences are very significant.

    Authentic Mexican food tends to be spicier, tends to include a greater variety of ingredients, etc... Some Mexican dishes are served cold or otherwise presented in ways that nonauthentic Mexican restaurants shun. Some Mexican recipes have evolved to include ingredients that weren't available in the past but are in modern Mexico, but they are close enough to be considered authentic (nevermind the fact that they're served widely in Mexico).
  • edited January 2007
    Here is a good article about "Americanized" Chinese food. Trust me... if you've ever been to China, you'd realize that there are not nearly as many "authentic" Chinese restaurants as you think.

    Even in very authentic Japanese restaurants, I've always found something that is Americanized. It may be a small detail, but you can almost always find something.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • The only "Mexican" food in all the world is food made in Mexico from Mexican ingredients by Mexicans.
    What? I disagree with the premise that "Mexican" food can only be prepared in Mexico by Mexicans.
  • edited January 2007
    What? I disagree with the premise that "Mexican" food can only be prepared in Mexico by Mexicans.
    You misinterpet. I propose that the term "authentic" has dubious meaning, and the term "Mexican" must either refer to a uselessly-specific meaning or a much more broad meaning. To say "Taco Bell is not Mexican food" is true, if the quoted text is true. However, if the quoted text is true, the meaning is useless.

    My point is to illustrate my disregard and contempt of the pretentious use of "authentic" or words of specific authenticity meant to connote the meaning of "authentic". Taco Bell, perhaps the most flamboyant example possible, is Mexican food with strong American influences, and even stronger fast-food influences. Then again, Mexican food is just a combination of Native American and Spanish cuisine, each adapting to new meats, vegetables, and spices not previously available, and given time to mix together into a new tradition.

    Ultimately, the point is that most reasonable people understand Taco Bell for what it is--it is as I said. Therefore, what need is there to simplify by saying it is or isn't Mexican, or is or isn't authentic? It is what it is.
    Post edited by kenjura on
  • This reminds me of how some people thinkTaco Bellis Mexican food!
    One of my friends once said, "If Taco Bell isnt mexican food, where do you get it?" Needless to say, I was speechless.
  • edited January 2007
    Well, a lot of places where I live will deliberately hand spoons to children and people who look obviously non-Asian and chopsticks to asian people. It works.

    It's not THAT silly to want to use chopsticks with Asian food. Everyone has to learn somewhere.

    I read an article in the paper ages ago about some Italian restaurateur who wanted there to be some sort of organisation that monitored the authenticity of food (re: nationality). Needless to say: Lols.
    Post edited by Mamath on
  • Personally, whatever gets the food into my mouth is the way to go. I'll use chopsticks, Sporks, forks, shovels or whatever, just get me that General Chicken!
  • Chopsticks: An Ergonomic Nightmare?

    Personally, I do not care about the utensil provided, and I would argue that forks are equal to chopsticks for dumplings and the like. As for sushi, a lot of sushi is meant to be eaten by hand, and not with utensils. As for authentic Chinese food, unless the restaurant presents you with the head and feet of the animal in the meal you are about to eat on top of the dish, it most likely isn't "authentic". Even so, who cares one way or another. Rym, if you desire pretensions, then carry your own chopsticks around, they will be far prettier and you will not be wasting the wood that goes into the disposable chopsticks. Also, even the Cafe Maya is not authentic Mexican food, any menu that has burritos on it (a Tex-Mex) creation isn't authentic Mexican food.

    Oh, on the topic of food, I just picked up this book: Japanese Women Don't Get Fat or Old. Unfortunately, you have to wade through a lot of repetitive, anecdotal BS, but it has some great advice for setting up a "Tokyo Kitchen" and some great recipes, along with real statistics that point out how a Western diet is killing us (as if we didn't know).
  • edited January 2007
    I find the use of chopsticks by my fellow honkies rhythmless folk WASPs Westerners to be pretentious. If you can pull it off, then fine, but I feel like a tremendous dork whenever I try to emulate a different cultural custom, unless I am doing it as a sign of respect -- like if I am visiting a traditional Asian home and they hand me chopsticks.

    As for Toxic Bell, look up Jim Gaffigan on YouTube and watch him tear it apart. That guy is pale. That's sad.

    EDIT: I hope it's clear that the above was meant to be tongue-in-cheek after my post on racism in the selective services thread.
    Post edited by Jason on
  • edited January 2007
    I submit to all of you: Chopstick Dexterity MegaChallenge 3000!
    Pfah! Bowl of M&Ms; + chopsticks + time limit = party game! I came second. :< My asian-fu is weak.
    I find the use of chopsticks by my fellow honkies rhythmless folk WASPs Westerners to be pretentious.
    Why? They're just a tool. :/ No one who can actually use chopsticks cares who else uses them. It's not weird or pretentious when Asian people use forks, is it?
    Post edited by Mamath on
  • As a Chinese-American, I can assure you that we really don't care if non-asians use forks. And most of us really don't eat dogs, snakes and other exotic animals, the exotic eating habits of Guangzhou natives even scare us a little.. >__<
  • heeeeeeh...chopsticks.

    I used chopsticks since I was little, and so in terms of dexterity, there really isn't much difference. I like to eat stuff like salad and noodles with chopsticks because it feels better. However, food that is squishy, like some slippery dumplings, a fork is better. I figure - use what is easier. If you feel better eating your spaghetti with ohashi, go for it, but you can also use a fork for Udon if you need to.
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