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GeekNights 070305 - Network Address Translation

RymRym
edited March 2007 in Technology

Tonight on GeekNights, we explain NAT (Network Address Translation) in layman's terms. In the news, Diebold may be getting out of the voting machine business, and Best Buy may be doing shady things with its intranet site.

Scott's Thing - VI Man
Rym's Thing - Neal Adams is a Crazy Nutjob

Comments

  • edited March 2007
    This episode is not downloading from the feed using iTunes for some reason... I tried re-subscribing using the FeedBurner URL but to no avail.

    I doubt it, but perhaps it has something to do with today's iTunes update?
    Post edited by Sail on
  • A NATed NAT is useful for one thing: really quick and dirty security in a Windows environment.
    Scenario:
    A router connects several computers together in a Windows workgroup. A wireless router is connected to the first router to provide wifi access to the internet for visitors, but prevents them from seeing any Windows shares from the office's workgroup.

    Like I said, quick and dirty. I admit that it's not all that secure, but it will keep most people out of those shares.
  • A bank office near where I work had an open Wi-Fi router...

    I would sit in my car and open up a browser window just to surf porn on their open network while doing other things. I don't know if anyone ever got fired but... After I sent a bunch of porn images to their full color printer the router was locked down within 3 days!
  • I fixed the feed. Our Wordpress semi-regularly decides to totally fuck up the enclosures for no good reason.
  • This whole series has been really good, when I was listening to this one I was reminded of when they did a "How the Internet Works" thing on Security Now. Except that listening to this I don't have the urge to fall asleep.
  • Now that I listened to the epp (thanks iTunes) I have a question.

    When using NAT with your linksys router how much scamming can you do?

    If you keep changing your IP (dynamic IP logout then login again) will it have any effect on others tracking your online activities?

    If you have multiple computers behind your router (or someone latching onto your Wi-Fi) will there be any evidence in server logs so that you can defend yourself? i.e. MAC information?
  • Now that I listened to the epp (thanks iTunes) I have a question.

    When using NAT with your linksys router how much scamming can you do?
    Scamming?
    If you keep changing your IP (dynamic IP logout then login again) will it have any effect on others tracking your online activities?
    When behind a NAT router, the IP of your computer is for internal use only. Everyone else on the Internet sees just your router and nothing else. They have no idea how many computers are behind that router or what their internal IPs are.

    If you have some sort of internal network monitoring you can know everything that goes on inside your network. As far as people on the big Internet are concerned your entire network is just one IP address doing a whole lot of stuff.
  • Scamming might not have been the best choice of words...

    What I am wondering is, as a specific example, what occurs when you log into a game server from behind a NAT/router with a few other people behind the same NAT/firewall.

    Will this send out a red flag to most servers that there may be some form of cheating going on?
  • Scamming might not have been the best choice of words...

    What I am wondering is, as a specific example, what occurs when you log into a game server from behind a NAT/router with a few other people behind the same NAT/firewall.

    Will this send out a red flag to most servers that there may be some form of cheating going on?
    Imagine if you plugged your computer directly into the cable modem. Now your computer, rather than the router, has a real IP address. Now you open up three copies of the same game on the same computer. Each instance of the game runs on a different port. As far as the game server is concerned, this is the same as three different computers behind a NAT router.
  • Emacs forever!

    Its not just a text editor, its a way of life.
  • Here is one more scenerio:

    A bunch of Digg users all work for the same big company,by big company I mean IBM or AT&T. Because some of them are accessing the Internet over their Intranet and thus are likely to be behind a NAT firewall will Digg see this as gaming or multiple accounts by the same user?
  • Here is one more scenerio:

    A bunch of Digg users all work for the same big company,by big company I mean IBM or AT&T.; Because some of them are accessing the Internet over their Intranet and thus are likely to be behind a NAT firewall will Digg see this as gaming or multiple accounts by the same user?
    It would be the same as if you had a bunch of web browsers open on one computer with one IP with each web browser logged into Digg as a different user.
  • Stupid Router Tricks #83: MAC Spoofing

    Some ISP's have a very weak way of forcing you to have only one computer. They want you to plug in an actual computer (with a CD-ROM drive) directly into your cable modem after installation to "initialize" the connection. They then record the MAC address of the computer with which you initially connected, and only that MAC is allowed to connect on your line.

    This is often associated with static IP service like what I have. (Tip: with Time Warner Cable in Rochester, NY, you can get business-class cable with a static IP for $20 more than the regular service; it's called "premium" and is identical to the $200/mo+ business-class service.) It's easily circumvented if you just plug in a router right away, but otherwise you have to be a little tricky.

    Most routers, including the infamous Linksys WRT54g, let you spoof the MAC address of the router. Simply tell the router to use the same MAC address as your original computer, and the ISP is fooled. They expect this, of course, but they don't want you to do it. Kind of like how, with business-class, they give you a router with 4 ports, but it doesn't have NAT and has no interface (web, serial, or otherwise) to change that. They say you have to pay for more IP's. Or...you can just put a fricking router on the one good port. Morons.

    Anyway, that's not exactly NAT, but it is relevant.
  • The Linksys WRT54G is the only home router worth owning until 802.11g dies and 802.11n becomes the new hotness. For a home network, I would not consider buying anything else.
  • The Apple fanboys would have you believe the new Airport Extreme is the router to own. Some say things like "it's the only 802.11n router" or "other 802.11n routers are just as expensive", which are just bald-faced lies. However, though I'd consider that or another 802.11n router, if only my MacBook Pro worked with it. And that's the funny part; nowhere on the box, on the web site, or seemingly on the internet itself does it say "warning: 802.11n is not supported by any macs!".

    In fact, Core 2 based MacBooks have 802.11n support, but you have to buy, for MONEY, an "enabler" that activates the already-enabled functionality. Unbelievable. Un-fucking believable. What's next? Windows charges you $4 per USB port? $8 per printer?

    To make matters worse: one can easily install an 802.11n supporting card for a MacBook or MacBook pro. It's no more difficult than installing a hard drive. The card has an identical profile. Trouble is, it's pretty damn difficult to get a hold of (very few retailers, online or offline, carry the part), and Apple spreads FUD about its efficacy. They say "well, you'd void your warranty if you installed it yourself" and "802.11n is just a draft, so we can't support it", etc, etc. This would all be fine if they didn't market the "blazing speed" of the new Airport Extreme as if you could actually achieve it!

    I put it to fanboys to seriously consider if they want to remain loyal to a company that charges $1.99 to "enable" a piece of hardware that's already included in their system.

    Until then, I'll stick with my WRT54g.
  • If I ever buy a house, it'll have some serious network connectivity, a real, rack-mounted router, and some colocation for extra cash. ^_^

    The biggest thing I miss about RIT is the ability to borrow fantastically expensive networking equipment in order to play with it.
  • Just an update for those who care, this happened a few weeks ago, and I forgot to post. Best Buy's intranet thing now has links to a bestbuy.com which is the same as the one you'd see on the web, and then one set with in store ad prices
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