An advanced networking question

kenjura

This one goes out to Rym and anybody else with a lot of experience with networking.

Is there a way to reflect the signal from the wireless antennae of a standard 802.11g access point/router? I have an apartment much longer than it is wide, and at the far end of the farthest room lies the wireless router. I use wireless most often in that room, but sometimes I use it as far away as the opposite end of the apartment. Understandably, the signal is much weaker by the time it hits the far room.

Meanwhile, I'm uselessly beaming 50% of my signal into the next apartment, through the wall.

So, is there any material I could set up behind the router to reflect the signal back into my apartment? I've looked into bigger antennae, and while that may be good, it would be even better if I could focus the signal in one direction.

Moving the router is a poor option because it's in an optimal position for the room in which it receives the most use.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

HMTKSteve

1) Stop broadcasting your SSID

2) Move the router to elsewhere in the apartment

3) What is the problem with broadcasting into the other apartment?

4) Concrete - I find concrete is pretty good at blocking the signal on my wi-fi router!

5) The focusing antenna I have seen are usually made from coffee cans and are more of a beam than a wide dispersal antenna

Apreche

Steve, you don't understand his question at all. He's not worried about blocking the signal. He's not worried about security and the possibility of the other apartment getting on his network. What he's asking is if the signal can be reflected. If your apartment is a long rectangle, and you put an access point in the middle, then the ends of the apartment will have weaker signal. Meanwhile, there will be areas of strong signal outside of your apartment. If you could somehow bounce the radio waves off the walls, you could get a strong signal everywhere in the apartment.

As for the answer, I think you just need to get fancy-antennas of some sort. I imagine you could somehow make three antennas, one weak and two strong. The two strong could send the signal to the left and right while the weak one sends it forwards. If you imagine them sending waves in some sort of cone shaped spread, that could get some pretty good coverage. I just don't know enough about radio to be any more specific.

HMTKSteve

Steve, you don't understand his question at all.

That would not be the first time!

kenjura

Steve, I'm just going to gloss over your baseless insinuations about how stupid I am. Maybe you didn't read the keyword "advanced" and thought I was some sort of moron. I guess I wasted all that money going to college. Better go apply to McDonald's.

What I really wanted to know is: does metal really reflect radio waves? I mean, it must, in order for radio to work, but I seem to remember in wireless networking that metal conducts the waves, which might at least block the signal. However, more so than being a good neighbor, I want to increase the signal in my house. Perhaps it would only conduct if the metal were grounded, and otherwise would reflect. But will it reflect, or just deflect?

It's harder to find information on this than you might think. As one part of my research, I decided to see if there were any intelligent, knowledgeable people with the patience to read a short question or the wisdom to avoid answering a question for which the only thing they can come up with is thinly-veiled and unwarranted insults to my intelligence.

Thank you, Scott, for the well-reasoned answer.

Apreche

I really think the easiest solution is to just boost the signal to get full bars of coverage in your entire apartment. Then you can use some of that special paint or some other method of keeping it from getting into the neighbors house. Not as elegant or awesome as reflecting it off the walls, but we know it will work and how to do it.

navelfluff

I think you can find out more simply by googling.

I'm no radio expert, but I think it might be technically possible to use a parabola to focus the radio waves directionally through your long flat. A satellite dish might do the trick, but I guess it must have the appropriate diameter for the wavelength of the network signals. You might prefer to move your wireless router to the middle of your flat rather than decorate the whole wall of a room with a big parabola... ;-)

Just an idea. Don't trust me.

Edit: A parabola enhanced network is already a well known science project!

HMTKSteve

Don't forget to apply the blocking to all of the walls. If you boost the signal and aim it to the other end of the apartment it will bleed through that wall as well.

Rym

The simple and short answer is a wireless repeater. Many APs can be configured as one, and there are some standalone repeaters out there. Just stick it at the corner of the bend, and it will solve your problem with relatively little increase in latency.

The real answer will be long, and will require that I find some documents I was given during my last IT class at RIT that happen to discuss just this. Either that, or I need to strike some gold on Google.

tuttle88

What he's asking is if the signal can be reflected.

He could try wallpapering his room with tin foil. It would also keep out the signals from the CIA.

navelfluff

He could try wallpapering his room with tin foil. It would also keep out the signals from the CIA.

Don't forget the roof. You have to deal with those pesky mind-controlling UFOs as well.

HMTKSteve

To truely solve your problem (your signal getting outside of your apartment) would be so expensive you are better off focusing on securing your signal.

Katsu

I agree with Rym that the quickest solution is to use a stand-alone repeater.

If you're still in Rochester, you could drop in on Prof. Hartpence while he's in his office.

HMTKSteve

A stand-alone repeater is not a solution for his problem. His problem has to do with blocking the wi-fi signal from going through his walls.

Andrew

His problem has to do with blocking the wi-fi signal from going through his walls.

No it's not. His antennae is on one end of his apartment. On the other side of his apartment he gets a really weak signal. He wants to know if he can strengthen his signal by reflecting the extra signal that is going outside the wall the antennae is closest to back into his apartment.

HMTKSteve

How would reflecting solve the problem? The signal (even when reflected) will not go any further than the signal that is already going that way.

Adding the repeater will solve the problem of weak signal at the far end of the apartment but it will not solve the problem of his signal going into his neighbors apartment.

How big is this apartment? I have my wi-fi router in the middle of my house and I can get a good signal 150' away in my garage! My house is also made of wood, many apartments are made of concrete, which blocks wi-fi signals.

Andrew

A stand-alone repeater is not a solution for his problem.

Adding the repeater will solve the problem

Very interesting...Let me go grab my lolerskates.

HMTKSteve

A stand-alone repeater is not a solution for his problem.

Adding the repeater will solve the problem

Very interesting...Let me go grab my lolerskates.

Ah, selective quoting, the bane off all public speakers.

kenjura

When a signal makes it x feet, then making it go further OR increasing the amount of signal that reaches it (same thing, ultimately) will work.

I have a "wireless repeater". I was fooled into buying an Apple Airport Express, because it advertised these features. Turns out, it can only work that way with other Apple routers. It doesn't even make a solid effort to act as an access point using its ethernet cable; it wants to make its own network with its own SSID and act as a router.

There are plenty of more expensive solutions. I was just wondering if there were a cheap one. For instance, if it were known that metal reflected a signal, I could use a two dollar baking pan. Does it need to be a parabola? Turning a baking pan into a parabola (at least in two dimensions) would be fun.

Trust me, I can think of plenty of expensive solutions. I could buy an 802.11n router and a new laptop (since Apple doesn't want anyone upgrading pre-802.11n MacBook Pros). 802.11n would suffuse not only my entire apartment, but the entire apartment complex with a signal. Not particularly cost-effective; at that point I really ought to just run wires across the house and buy a $10 hub.

This whole post was much less about solving the problem are more to learn about radio waves. I've long since tried plenty of "simple Google searching", and discovered that this kind of information isn't all that simple to find. Thus, I decided to consult someone whom I know to be an expert, and possibly any others of whom I was not aware, since it was free.

BTW Katsu, thanks for the suggestion; I should give Bruce a ring.

Rym

Sadly, I've never had a job that cared about the interesting or cheap solution: there's always money to throw at the problem. In your case, they would just put in another AP or some other nonsense. ^_~

I had a nice little booklet that described exactly how 802.11 signals propagate that included some talk of reflection. I just can't find it. -_-

It does appear that 802.11b/g is reflected by metal objects. I found two references to people pointing directional wifi antennae at angled metal filling cabinets to get the signal around a corner.

At any rate, make sure your antennae are both perfectly vertical. The signal comes out in a donut-shaped ring/disc, so you want to maximize the horizontal signal strength. You could put a plate behind the AP, or a plate at the bend. If you want to have some fun, try making a Pringles can yagi to either power your signal through the wall or to reflect off of a smaller plate.

You're going to have to experiment, but I'd wager you'll have some measure of success with some simple metal bits angled properly.

kenjura

Thank you.

Rym

You're right about Google being mostly useless for this. I started searching for some strange things to find anything...