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Congress considerd taxes for everything on the internet.

This includes the already wildly unpopular and stupid idea of taxing e-mails, as well as forcing people to pay tax on any item bought over the internet. This would probably make buying anything on sites like e-bay a tremendous pain in the ass.

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Comments

  • They've been thinking about Internet taxes for a long time. They've never managed to pull it off, and I don't think they ever will.
  • I hope not. I mean, really, with gas prices as high as ever, the economy still trying to recover from Bush's disastrous economic policies, the last thing our government should to is punish the middle and lower classes again with an unnecessary tax. If you read the article, asshole republicans said they would just raise other taxes if they didn't get their net tax. Basically they want money and don't want to either take a pay cut themselves or re-instate some of the monster tax-cuts on the richest 10% of the country.
  • edited May 2007
    Neither party has the muscle right now to pass this tax, and I can't see much aisle-crossing to raise taxes among the Internet generation just as the presidential election is swinging into public view.

    At any rate, Congress has voted several times now on the e-mail tax issue, and it has failed repeatedly -- mainly because of its intent. Previously, its implicit intent was to stop spam, which smart legislators realized simply was unrealistic under the proposed law.

    Now, here is where I actually pull a 180 and support an e-mail tax: Setting aside the whole AOL/Yahoo scuttlebutt, I can see a day when the U.S. Postal Service is rendered unnecessary. Frankly, I want to see it decommissioned. The only time that I bother to use the USPS is for bills that will not accept online payment. We're quickly reaching an event horizon where all those places will disappear.

    Scrym have defended the USPS, saying that 39 or 41 cents is a perfectly acceptable fee to send a first-class envelope anywhere inside the U.S. That's terrific -- but honestly, what can you send in a first-class envelope that you can't send in an e-mail? I would much rather pay a quarter-cent tax on an e-mail than a 41-cent tax on an envelope.

    I could send 124 e-mails for the current price of one stamp. The USPS has a schedule that will jump stamp prices yet again next year, I believe. And let's face it; there are better ways of communication now than an e-mail anyway. It would take me a fucking long time to actually send 124 e-mails.

    On a side tangent, I don't really care about the gas prices. I still pay less than anyone else in the world for gas, and higher prices only force me to drive less -- which is a good thing. Plus, I figure I pay $4 for a half-gallon of ice cream, so what the hell?
    Post edited by Jason on
  • NJ and some other states already have sales tax on things you buy over the internet. Its annoying, but its still cheaper then buying stuff from a store still.
  • Scrym have defended the USPS, saying that 39 or 41 cents is a perfectly acceptable fee to send a first-class envelope anywhere inside the U.S. That's terrific -- but honestly, what can you send in a first-class envelope that you can't send in an e-mail? I would much rather pay a quarter-cent tax on an e-mail than a 41-cent tax on an envelope.You can send physical goods in an envelope. That is a huge difference. You also get the absolute guarantee that the physical good existed at a certain time. You also can deliver something to an exact physical location in the real world, whereas an e-mail just goes to a server. If all you are trying to do is send words to people, then yes an e-mail is better than a letter for that purpose. However, to say that first class mail is useless thanks to the fact that e-mail exists is simply shortsighted. There are many differences between a first class stamp and an e-mail.
  • I would posit that, due to weight regulations, anything that you can send with a first-class stamp can just as easily (not to mention more efficiently and quickly) be sent electronically. For example, a first-class stamp isn't going to allow you to send a brick of cheese from Ohio to New York. You would need to pay parcel rate -- and in terms of service and cost, I would choose UPS.

    Things you can send in a first-class envelope for 41 cents: Photos (digital will likely be higher resolution via e-mail); coupons (can be downloaded); cards (e-cards are less expensive and don't waste paper); money (sending secure electronic payments is faster and more secure); tickets (can be ordered online); letters (duh); bills (online billing is available and doesn't waste paper); etc.

    It's all just paper, paper, paper. The only thing I can think of that might have a legitimate demand for physical mailing with a first-class stamp is a legal document. Otherwise, I would say that the postal service is propped up on a wasteful sham of bulk-rate mass mailings. Get rid of the USPS, get rid of junk mail. At least you can filter electronic spam, and at least it doesn't waste millions of trees.
  • I want a brick of cheese.
  • There is something to be said for all that paper. I can't put perfume on an email. It's difficult and impractical for me to send an email in my own handwriting. If I want to send silly little trinkets like stickers, drawings and postcards to friends or family whilst I am on holiday (or even just for the hell of it!) I would have to use good 'ol snailmail. I'm not even being all that creative here - I am certain there are many other uses for letters over email. Sometimes a packet of bytes just doesn't cut it.

    I have to admit, I don't understand the postage situation in America. You have a national postal service that sends mail AND parcels, as well as private services that send ONLY parcels? Why shouldn't both continue to exist? And why would getting rid of the national postal service (USPS?) get rid of junkmail? Wouldn't junkmail vendors just get a different service to deliver their stuff?
  • edited May 2007
    If I want to send silly little trinkets like stickers, drawings and postcards to friends or family whilst I am on holiday (or even just for the hell of it!) I would have to use good 'ol snailmail.
    I suppose I can see that. I still don't like the USPS. Read on to find out why. Plus, the creation of all that paper is incredibly damaging to the environment, and I'm not sure the trade-off is worth it.
    ou have a national postal service that sends mail AND parcels, as well as private services that send ONLY parcels?
    Private services don't deliver normal letter mail because the government has passed legislation saying they are the only entity that can deliver to residential mailboxes.
    Why shouldn't both continue to exist?
    Because the government should not be running monopolies, or really any business, for that matter. Oh, Joe will probably disagree with me, and yes, there are some businesses that (usually in the past) have needed government leadership to make them widely available -- such as airports and telephones. I think we've evolved past the need for a government monopoly on first-class letter mail.
    And why would getting rid of the national postal service (USPS?) get rid of junkmail? Wouldn't junkmail vendors just get a different service to deliver their stuff?
    This is up for debate, but I say no. We are really talking about two possible scenarios: Either 1) Get rid of the USPS, and replace all letter mail with just e-mail. If the private companies such as UPS and Fed-Ex did not pick up bulk mail services, this would go a long way toward destroying junk mail. 2) Get rid of USPS, and UPS and Fed-Ex et al may choose to make it too expensive for bulk mailers to flood the mail market with credit card offers and cheap-ass catalogs and scams. At least, if I were the head of such companies then I would do so.

    Let me say that the saving grace of the USPS, as Scott rightly pointed out in a previous debate about it, is that as of this year it is finally independently funded by its own revenues -- i.e. It no longer runs as part of the federal operating budget.
    Post edited by Jason on
  • Sorry to double post, but I keep on thinking about this issue. I really, really, really, really, really want a paperless society. I can't believe we're still raping our natural resources with such gusto. It seems so primitive, especially when we have so many communications alternatives at our fingertips. I see electronics as being the salvation of the paper problem, because they are so much more efficient and thrifty.

    But Jason, you say, how can you advocate all this whilst working in the newspaper industry?

    Good question, me. Recycle, recycle, recycle, I say. In the meantime, we're scrambling to find ways to stay financially viable while reducing our waste. I see newspapers moving entirely online within a very short window. I really look forward to the day when printing presses are obsolete.
  • So Jason, what is it like living in a tree like a got-damn hippie? They still cutting down the rainforest?
  • A hippie I'm not. Exactly the opposite. I can only see preservation and conservation as good business decisions. I can only see replacing postal mail with electronic communication as being money and time-saving. Ooooh, look at the evil businessman arguing for liberal ideals!

    BTW, you're invited up the tree. I've got a mad-ass daydream of one day living out the Swiss Family Robinson motif. I think there's an XKCD comic about that.
  • We will never be entirely paperless considering that there are very good reasons for having physical copies of things, being either historical, artistic, informational or legal. While the USPS's value is certainly not what it used to be, there are still some things that people prefer to see physically.
  • But computers have poison gas, remember?
  • Artboy is right, but he's looking at it from a far too limited point of view. We are never going to live in a paperless society, and there's one huge reason: packaging. The boxes and containers that litter our lifestyle are always going to require paper.
    Jason, you're about the need to remove paper, but it's really not going to be feasible for another few decades or so. Once of the first things that needs to happen is that E-ink or some other screen technology needs to become more ubiquitous and affordable so that information that is currently transferred via paper medium (books, bills, newspapers) can be read in the places that people currently read. I am not sure that any change to technology is going to reduce the places that we read or interact with our media.
    As far as the post office and direct mail goes, I don't think there is the political will to do anything to the USPS. You would not only be fighting every direct mailer (aka. about half of the mid-size or larger printers in the US), but also every bank, every car dealer, and every vacation company (not to mention Xerox, Kodak, and Hiedleberg). This is how they communicate and target their customers. The average consumer would not miss the Post Office, but there's not a justified reason for elminating an entire market.
  • Jason, you do realize there are tree farms, right? There are forests planted specifically to be cut down in a bunch of years for lumber, paper, other wood products. So papermaking is not necessarily "raping our natural resources."
  • Tree farms are terrific, and there is actually more acreage filled with trees in the United States today than 200 years ago. However, none of these are old growth trees, and none of them are truly developed old-growth ecosystems. There is a substantial and damaging difference.
  • Please explain your "substantial and damaging difference" argument between old and new growth.
  • Science!
    That's not science it's wikipedia!
  • Not to mention that the ground cannot handle it.

    There is limited nutrition In the ground, and if you take that out of the ground (in the form of trees) it's eventually going to run out.
    luckily, new nutrition is added in the form of dead animals and plants... but not fast enough.

    energy to power our screens also costs energy, it damages our nature as much as paper.
  • Um...this is a silly and selfish thing that came to me...but how would Netflix and other services like that send out DVDs without the USPS?
  • Um...this is a silly and selfish thing that came to me...but how would Netflix and other services like that send out DVDs without the USPS?
    I think the libertarian response would be: You'd be on your own.
  • Um...this is a silly and selfish thing that came to me...but how would Netflix and other services like that send out DVDs without the USPS? I think the libertarian response would be: You'd be on your own.Yep. Anti post office people would say that you should use UPS, FedEx, DHL, or some other private letter carrying business. Of course, that will almost certainly mean that Netflix's business model will cease to function due to the increased cost of doing business.
    Thus, this is just one more point in favor of the USPS. For all the harm you get from having the government involve itself in what could be a private business, you are able to foster the existence of all sorts of business in other sectors. How many other businesses besides Netflix wouldn't exist without the Post Office? No magazine would exist. Amazon probably wouldn't make it. Just about any business that has to send bills and invoices by mail would suffer an increased cost of doing business.
    A government run post office is like a government owned road. Sure, it ruins pure capitalism in the industry of privately owned roads, but it allows the thousands of businesses that depend on roads to flourish.
  • http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/archives/2007/05/domain-squatting.html
    Holding a domain without providing content of any value and stopping others from getting such domains should be taxed heavily.
    This guy who own the rights to any .cm domain that doesn't hit an actual site and makes a great deal of money just from people mistyping various .com domains. Currently there are negotiations going on for the .om (Oman) and .co (Columbia) versions as well. And then people like this complain when Google tries to filter out domain squatters.
  • http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/archives/2007/05/domain-squatting.html />Holding a domain without providing content of any value and stopping others from getting such domains should be taxed heavily. This guy who own the rights to any .cm domain that doesn't hit an actual site and makes a great deal of money just from people mistyping various .com domains. Currently there are negotiations going on for the .om (Oman) and .co (Columbia) versions as well. And then people like this complain when Google tries to filter out domain squatters.
    I agree that this is scummy behavior that provides no benefit to the rest of the world in order to make money for a few people. I also think these people really have no room to move when it comes to Google, but then again nobody does. However, I don't see anything inherently wrong with buying a domain and using it in any way you want. they have a right to continue doing what they are doing. If it makes them money, then who is the fool?
  • I definitely think that we should have the USPS. I think that a paperless society at this point in time is utterly unrealistic. I am all for the environment as much as the next man, but saying that we should get rid of the USPS as a means of cutting back on paper consumption is nonsense. You mentioned that people can turn to private services to send their mail which does nothing but place a greater burden on my poor Aunt Carroll every Christmas when she wants to send me a card; and in the end no paper has been saved.

    The look and feel of a newspaper or a greeting card is simply not something that can be duplicated by my computer. I dislike reading large articles on my computer screen, and I would much rather read them from a printed page. I know there are many others who feel the same way. And again, the handwritten card from my grandmother on my birthday is not something that can be duplicated with the computer.
  • Id say that mail for anything that can be sent digitaly and phisicaly isnt important will be phased out eventualy, It could take generations to do so, given the unreliability of computers.
  • I too am all for the "environment" (in this case meaning the well being of humanity since the "environment" is just fine regardless). Still, the idea of dissolving the USPS is for the most part, ridiculous. What about all our grandparents, among other people, who don't have the internet, if they even have a computer? What would they do if everything went online? Are you going to force them to go to some central, localized "email station"? And don't say Internet/Cyber cafe, if that were the answer they wouldn't constantly pop up and then die within a year or two.

    No, the USPS is here to stay and as Scott mentioned the similarity to the road system, it's useful for only one entity to control it for convenience. Otherwise we wouldn't likely have boxes on nearly every corner where we can drop a letter or netflix. We wouldn't likely have the ability to pop a letter or netflix in our mailbox and expect it to be picked up M-F. The alternative is the government "regulating" what can and cannot happen so that standards are maintained. After all, particularly with roads, if you have to get somewhere you don't often have many options, or better yet, with phones/power, they are run by companies instead of the government and they are no longer regulated by the government either, yet I'm stuck with 1 local phone company and 1 local power company.
  • A paperless society was proven impossible by e-books.

    The Sony eReader may be a cool device, but there have been many attempts at similar devices and software:

    Adobe Reader(prior to it's merging with Acrobat Reader; not PDF based)

    RCA eBookman

    Microsoft Reader(PC and PDA software)

    Palm Reader, and etc.

    Problem is, none of them caught on. They were difficult to read, drank a lot of battery life if they were on PDA's, and were prone to crash. I should know. I used Microsoft Reader on an old Dell Axim X5 (first gen: 2002). I prefer paper books to this day.

    Sony's eReader is a big improvement, but I don't think it will catch on in the long run.

    There aren't a lot of non-geeks who like reading on a computer screen. It is an aesthetic thing, not one of practicality.
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