The only practical solution is to prohibit these slightly damaging activities.
Well, it's not that you really permit the penny stealing, so much as recognize that while it's wrong, it's really really impractical and inefficient to enforce such a meaningless infraction. If someone steals a penny a day from you, it'll never make a significant dent in your wealth. You certainly COULD track down every instance of theft of a penny, but the amount of resources you would have to use to enforce that is simply not worthwhile.
In other words, I say it's impractical to enforce such a prohibition through means other than social stigma.
This sounds more like Apple being lazy and coming up with excuses not to fix their faulty hardware.
I can say that any PC which has been in a smoker's home for any substantial amount of time is basically ruined inside without extensive filtering. This hard, black film covers everything and eventually causes overheating.
Definitely. There is a measurable effect on hardware. I support Apple on this, just as I would support them voiding the warranty if someone sprayed sand into their computer fan every day.
There's more to this than meets the eye. Seems like Apple would probably have a hard time proving statistically that second hand smoke causes the failure (I haven't found an study on the matter) so they're saying that smoke residue is a bio-hazard. Fucking legal bullshit if I've ever seen it. If you don't want to repair smoke damaged computers, fine, but prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt that the smoke is to blame. None of this "we don't want to endanger our employees" crap. It's smoke residue, wear gloves!
There's more to this than meets the eye.Seems like Apple would probably have a hard time proving statistically that second hand smoke causes the failure (I haven't found an study on the matter) so they're saying that smoke residue is a bio-hazard. Fucking legal bullshit if I've ever seen it. If you don't want to repair smoke damaged computers, fine, but prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt that the smoke is to blame. None of this "we don't want to endanger our employees" crap. It's smoke residue, wear gloves!
Yeah, that's a pretty shady line of reasoning. Everything that goes into electronics is a carcinogen in one for or another.
Really, they should just say something like "evidence of smoke damage invalidates your warranty."
None of this "we don't want to endanger our employees" crap. It's smoke residue, wear gloves!
I have refused to work on friends PCs in the past when their parents smoked. The insides were too much to deal with. Smokers' PC is up there with "bathroom accident" in the sense that I would walk out of a job before I'd address it. The smell is overpowering. It's like concentrated ash mouth. It's usually caked on, so you end up having to clean the boards with butane or the like.
I point out that Apple couldn't determine if smoking was a factor unless it was obvious from strong smell or residue upon opening the device. They'd probably similarly refuse to repair, say, a Mac Mini that was used in a mechanic's garage or sintering furnace.
Yeah, that's a pretty shady line of reasoning. Everything that goes into electronics is a carcinogen in one for or another.
It depends on how you contact it. I had to follow all sorts of regulations when I worked on the floor at IBM. The innards of PCs are generally stabilized, in that the carcinogens won't leach into your skin or anything from typical repair contact. Residue from the air, however, gets all over you, and is difficult to wash off. I was barred from repairing any PCs exposed to excessive smoke (factory-related: obviously smoking was banned on the campus) due to the hazard it presented.
Really, they should just say something like "evidence of smoke damage invalidates your warranty."
That's hard to do though. Warranties of consumer goods are protected in this country in favor of the customer. In order to void the warranty, it's the manufacturer's responsibly to prove that the customer damaged the product, and that it was in fact not a normal component failure. The system is made this way to protect people. Apple is bypassing the system, and this might develop into a case action lawsuit.
EDIT: Nevermind, I am wrong.
It depends on how you contact it. I had to follow all sorts of regulations when I worked on the floor at IBM. The innards of PCs are generally stabilized, in that the carcinogens won't leach into your skin or anything from typical repair contact. Residue from the air, however, gets all over you, and is difficult to wash off. I was barred from repairing any PCs exposed to excessive smoke (factory-related: obviously smoking was banned on the campus) due to the hazard it presented.
OK, maybe I'm just whining over nothing. Nevermind, carry on.
That's hard to do though. Warranties of consumer goods are protected in this country in favor of the customer. In order to void the warranty, it's the manufacturer's responsibly to prove that the customer damaged the product, and that it was in fact not a normal component failure.
Cell phone manufacturers do it all the time with the water-detecting strips inside the phones. Strip changed color? Your phone was wet, and the warranty is void.
Cell phone manufacturers do it all the time with the water-detecting strips inside the phones. Strip changed color? Your phone was wet, and the warranty is void.
Yes, they have a mechanism to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the fault is the consumer's and not there's.
I think a computer full of smoke is clearly not caused by the manufacturer. Even crappy third-rate components are super clean when you buy them new.
The point I was making is that smoke on computer components does not necessarily make a broken computer. I'm still very interested in seeing a study on the effects of smoke residue on computer components. I haven't found one yet, if anyone comes across one, please link it.
The point I was making is that smoke on computer components does not necessarily make a broken computer. I'm still very interested in seeing a study on the effects of smoke residue on computer components. I haven't found one yet, if anyone comes across one, please link it.
You can do it yourself. Get a few computers, smoke 'em up, see if it causes any problems. You don't need a really big sample size to get valid results with something like this.
You can do it yourself. Get a few computers, smoke 'em up, see if it causes any problems. You don't need a really big sample size to get valid results with something like this.
Yes, but I lack the technical tools and skills to assess anything more than, "the cpu seems to be running hotter now."
The computers in the furnace areas at IBM failed constantly and catastrophically. The identical computers everywhere else had no such issues. The computers in the furnace areas were far less sooty than the smokers' PCs I've encountered.
I am fully confident that a clear causal link could easily be found between indoor smoking and component failure.
The computers in the furnace areas at IBM failed constantly and catastrophically. The identical computers everywhere else had no such issues. The computers in the furnace areas were far less sooty than the smokers' PCs I've encountered.
I am fully confident that a clear causal link could easily be found between indoor smoking and component failure.
Not disagreeing with your latter point, but I'm curious why you're considering smoke as opposed to heat as the primary factor leading to issues in your former point.
I'm curious why you're considering smoke as opposed to heat as the primary factor leading to issues in your former point.
The rooms weren't hotter than other rooms, they were just full of soot. The PCs had higher average temperatures due to the soot accumulation inside of them. The average temperatures would in fact begin normal and increase over time due to said accumulation until component failure.
That is, of course, what every smoker's PC looks like, no matter how much the smoker smokes or in what proximity the smoker smokes with respect to their PC.
That is, of course, what every smoker's PC looks like, no matter how much the smoker smokes or in what proximity the smoker smokes with respect to their PC.
Of course. ^_~
Really, though, careful smokers would never have a problem with Apple's policy. They'd really have to stink up their PC to make it noticeable. To their credit, the people I'd known who smoked mostly outside did not have the issues that the indoor smokers did.
Thumbs up from me. Other smokers couldn't step up and be polite and respectful with their habit before it became an issue, and now it's simply a rule. They did the same thing with a main shopping here, Queen Street mall - it bothered a lot of people, never bothered me, I always fucked off down to Elizabeth street if I wanted to smoke, it's less than a hundred meters away, but it's not the middle of a crowded shopping plaza/street/thing.
Wait, am I supposed to take from that that the parks and beaches are not part of New York the state? Who the fuck is then responsible for those places?
Wait, am I supposed to take from that that the parks and beaches are not part of New York the state? Who the fuck is then responsible for those places?
Some parks are NYC-owned and operated. Some parks, even within the City, are actually federally owned and/or operated (like the Gantries near my apartment).
New York is a complicated state, partly due to the fact that half the population lives in a large, semi-rural expanse, and the other half lives in one of the two alpha global cities/cosmopolitan centers of the entire world. New York City thus gets a lot of federal attention and has as many ties to the national and world governments as it does to the state itself.
Surprising chunks of the City are federal, either in ownership or in direct regulation. As a side effect of both this and the complex and important waterways/watersheds of the rest of the state, New York State has similar ties, moreso than many other states.
Comments
In other words, I say it's impractical to enforce such a prohibition through means other than social stigma.
Really, they should just say something like "evidence of smoke damage invalidates your warranty."
I point out that Apple couldn't determine if smoking was a factor unless it was obvious from strong smell or residue upon opening the device. They'd probably similarly refuse to repair, say, a Mac Mini that was used in a mechanic's garage or sintering furnace.
EDIT: Nevermind, I am wrong. OK, maybe I'm just whining over nothing. Nevermind, carry on.
Plus I don't feel like buying 30 computers.
I am fully confident that a clear causal link could easily be found between indoor smoking and component failure.
/fully expect a PS of a "smoking cat" owner instead of a smoking "cat owner."
Really, though, careful smokers would never have a problem with Apple's policy. They'd really have to stink up their PC to make it noticeable. To their credit, the people I'd known who smoked mostly outside did not have the issues that the indoor smokers did.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/04/no_smoking_at_new_yorks_beache.html
New York is a complicated state, partly due to the fact that half the population lives in a large, semi-rural expanse, and the other half lives in one of the two alpha global cities/cosmopolitan centers of the entire world. New York City thus gets a lot of federal attention and has as many ties to the national and world governments as it does to the state itself.
Surprising chunks of the City are federal, either in ownership or in direct regulation. As a side effect of both this and the complex and important waterways/watersheds of the rest of the state, New York State has similar ties, moreso than many other states.