GeekNights 070813 - Internet Anonymity

Rym

Tonight on GeekNights, we discuss the idea of anonymity on the Internet. In the news, there's some FUD about Vista, and SCO is finally dead and buried.
Scott's Thing - Hulk Hogan vs. AOL Instant Messenger

Rym's Thing - The Joy of Shaving

Mr. Eric

The Hulk Hogan video was taken out already..

Blattus

Mirror for the Hulk Hogan video: http://www.tubemall.net/undeletube.php?v=pzx5NJwlqOA

davek

Its nice to hear some sanity debunking the myth and illusion of anonymity in any arena, especially on the various internets. You can never deny your own existence, nor should you. Good show.

Jain7th

Thank you Roach!

Googled only gave me sites which link to youtube.

Rooster

I am now officially scared of 4chan on a philosophical level. I mean, the very idea of a community devoted to stripping away ones own identity for the purposes of looking at pics with captions on them is horrifying to me. "My name is anonymous, for we are many." *shudders*

cosmicenema

Coincidentally I had an urge this weekend to peruse 4Chan . . . just to know what they dark side of the internet is like these days. Their meme’s have filtered to the shallow end of the internet where I run into them and I wanted to know kind of community built this.

I was floored. I could not believe the rate at which content was created (or posted at the very least) and deleted. There’s no log so after the thread is dead, it’s gone forever. You can post a reply to a thread (which bumps it to the top) and in the time it takes your browser to reload the front page there are already three more threads with posts newer than yours. 4Chan/Random (aka /b/) is the absolute most amazing thing I’ve ever seen on the internet. It truly is a collective meme machine.

The anonymity doesn’t mean it’s completely without boundaries; strict rules are enforced with the veracity of wild dogs.

I was completely floored by the experience and I must admit that I somewhat enjoyed posting. I found there are certain ways you can move entire discussions. I couldn’t keep up with /b/ but some of the other forums were certainly malleable if you were knowledgeable on the subject and wicked enough to go where no one else had already gone (which is saying something on 4Chan).

Either way, great show and I look forward to some more focused discussions on this in future episodes.

Neito

I am now officially scared of 4chan on a philosophical level. I mean, the very idea of a community devoted to stripping away ones own identity for the purposes of looking at pics with captions on them is horrifying to me. "My name is anonymous, for we are many." *shudders*

That's not all of 4chan. That's really just /b/. All of the other boards have names and tripcodes, and, with some exceptions, there's little "oh you're using a name therefore you're an asshole" type shit going on. I like 4chan because, despite /b/'s reputation, there's generally a light atmosphere around the boards. The drama is all half-joking and goofy, and everything gets reset after a day or two.

sK0pe

I've never heard of this 4Chan before or maybe I have and just ignored it because I didn't know what it was.  Sounds very interesting in the philosophical sense that was discussed in group psychology and sociology without identity.

Jason

I've never heard of this 4Chan before or maybe I have and just ignored it because I didn't know what it was. Sounds very interesting in the philosophical sense that was discussed in group psychology and sociology without identity.

Welcome to the Internets, grasshopper. Walk before you run, and crawl before you walk.

cosmicenema

I've never heard of this 4Chan before or maybe I have and just ignored it because I didn't know what it was. Sounds very interesting in the philosophical sense that was discussed in group psychology and sociology without identity.

Welcome to the Internets, grasshopper. Walk before you run, and crawl before you walk.

In other words . . . if you haven't heard of 4Chan . . . you're not ready for 4Chan.

ShadedSpriter

I use to go to 4chan for porn back in 2004...I have been listening to a podcast r5 central and it has made me want to try and get on 4chan again...and not for porn but for...well random people.

There is a torrent around for the 4chan Otakon panel...I think this might be the safest way to introduce someone to 4chan since the panel was for all ages unlike some of 4chan.

cosmicenema

4Chan is the best internet equivalent of Emergence Theory or Emergent Complexity (unexpected organization without an organizer or leader). This is bottom-up organization. There are a simple set of rules that when followed by a mass of (in this case, anonymous) individuals, create complex organizational structures.

There are theories about this where our very consciousness is a result of Emergence within our neurons. If we have enough neurons that are ‘connected’ to each other, an individual consciousness is born. Would this make something like 4Chan a true community consciousness?

The episode got me thinking. An ambitious and slightly twisted doctorial student would work with it is all.

ShadedSpriter

I only have one "online persona," but on some forums/chat groups I am on I do have Roleplaying Characters.  The name of my account here, "Shaded Spriter," is one of my characters which I have had for about 4 years now.

TheWhaleShark

I am now officially scared of 4chan on a philosophical level. I mean, the very idea of a community devoted to stripping away ones own identity for the purposes of looking at pics with captions on them is horrifying to me. "My name is anonymous, for we are many." *shudders*

That's not all of 4chan. That's really just /b/. All of the other boards have names and tripcodes, and, with some exceptions, there's little "oh you're using a name therefore you're an asshole" type shit going on. I like 4chan because, despite /b/'s reputation, there's generally a light atmosphere around the boards. The drama is all half-joking and goofy, and everything gets reset after a day or two.

Except that /b/ accounts for over half of 4chan's posts, so, yes, 4chan is effectively like that.

The thing about /b/ is that none of the drama is concious; it's all ritualized. If there is a furry thread, there will be posts that say "yiff in hell furfags" each and every time. It's the response; it's supposed to happen, even if the 4channers don't particularly have anything against furries. That's the thing about /b/ that is so very interesting; they've cobbled together an entire set of rituals out of, well, I don't really know.

In other words, fuck yeah Seaking.

Symmetry

I have bloggers who go to 4chan for me and bring back the precious memes, risking their sanity in those dark places all for my benefit. It makes me feel sort of humble. Sometimes I need anime images, but usually I just go to Danbooru where all I have to avoid is the porn.

And how did you manage to discuss anonymity on teh internetses without mentioning TOR?

Apreche

And how did you manage to discuss anonymity on teh internetses without mentioningTOR?

We did indirectly. It's just one of those proxy things we mentioned.

Symmetry

True, but they partially get around what you mentioned as the disadvantage of proxy routers - that you have to trust the person doing your routing. With TOR you just have to trust that a few of the many proxies you pick aren't subverted by the same person.

Oh, and you were a little unfair to PC world. Vista doesn't really degrade all high def content, but the specs that Microsoft gave the MPAA did say that they would if you read them literally. And it is true that movie playback is noticably slower under Vista

Rooster

The thing about /b/ is that none of the drama isconcious; it's all ritualized. If there is a furry thread, there will be posts that say "yiff in hell furfags" each and every time. It's the response; it's supposed to happen, even if the 4channers don't particularly have anything against furries. That's the thing about /b/ that is so very interesting; they've cobbled together an entire set of rituals out of, well, I don't really know.

And that doesn't scare anybody else? This "/b/" you talk of is effectively raw, unrestricted, ultra-concentrated humanity allowed to flourish and evolve into a hive-mind where everybody responds in the same way automatically to everything, and it's nearly impossible to not get sucked in, as Scrym proved anecdotally. It's kinda like Lord of the Flies, without the strong egotistical leader: chaos reigning supreme, the jungle getting burned and the new meme battlecry "Kill The Beast". I'm sure that if the internets went to war, 4-chan would be the Zerg. Hopefully all the Protoss here on GeekNights will be ready when they break free.

Jason

I don't know that we would. I think Rym would defect: "It's better to reign in Zerg than serve in Protoss," after all. And who can stand up to an army of lolcats, some of which will undoubtedly have PSed genitalia? We shall fall like sheaves of wheat at teh reapingses.

Rooster

Oh noes, you're right. But surely his popularity would catapult him to the forefront of FRC Protoss leadership. I mean, who else would rule us? WaterIsPoison?

ironzealot

You shouldn't think of 4chan as a web forum, it's actually more of a social game. The object of which is to achieve the maximum level of win possible by posting threads that generate a positive response from other /b/tards. That's why it appears so ritualistic.

To an outsider it just looks like random nonsense, if you're familiar with it you realize that most threads are actually challenges to other posters to come up with something amusing in accordance with guidelines cryptically offered in the original post. Posters then rate one another's threads/replies in a variety of cryptic or overt fashions. Typical rating responses will include: "Your fortune: (insert positive or negative outlook)," "buh", "moar", "epic win", "epic fail", etc.

As for the obsession with anonymity, god only knows what that's all about. I tend to believe they all suffer from sever social anxiety disorder.

You kid yourself if you think actual discussion takes place on 4chan.

Jason

I mean, who else would rule us? WaterIsPoison?

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

Andrew

Rawr.

VentureJ

I'm sure that if the internets went to war, 4-chan would be the Zerg. Hopefully all the Protoss here on GeekNights will be ready when they break free.

If that is your analogy, who would be the Terran? Something Awful?

Rooster

WIP: Epic lulz. Winner is you.

SniperDragon: Lol, Maybe. I think the Terran would be mostly the fanfic/livejournal communities. We, the Protoss, would get all the awesome stuff like Penny-Arcade and Wikipedia. Think of how powerful a tool THAT would be.

...unless the 4-chan Zerg rushed it.

sK0pe

I just spent an entire day on 4chan for the first time, initially it was very, very strange but when I started posting, the anonymity felt empowering and graced me with arrogance.
It seems to be like the pure essence of the internet on one site.  I've never known about Hentai other than it was an acquired Japanese anime / manga taste.  Now I know about penis girls and finding out pictorially was quite confronting.  Other than that the rest was pretty run of the mill stuff that I expected to a lesser degree.
I'm not adding it to my favourites but I know of it now thanks to everyone above  :)

cosmicenema

I'm not adding it to my favourites but I know of it now thanks to everyone above

I sincerely apologize.