DS + PSP

dutopia

I really find it interesting how popular the DS/Nintendo is compared to Sony over in the U.S. In Ireland about 1 in 3 homes have a PS2, or possibly even more at this stage, the store i work in has sold about 50-60 PSP's since they were released, but we only sold 5 DS's or there abouts.

You know what the diffirence is here? "Real gamers" stick to PC gaming and GC or whatever, but the market for mainstreaming gaming is far bigger. EA sports titles especially for football (soccer) dominate the games stores over here. How are games marketed and targeted over there? Are the PS2 users mostly sport gamers too?

Pilitus

That seems to be the case over here, at least with other people I know who game and aren't geeks. The sports title dominate their reasoning in purchasing a system.

Apreche

It seems to me that there are many people in the US who don't identify themselves as gamers, they just happen to play video games. These are typically 10 to 35 year old males. Depending on their age and taste they play sports, shooting, fighting and racing games primarily. Whether they prefer Sony or MS is a 50/50 shot.

PC Gaming tends to fall in 3 categories. MMO folk are obvious. Hardcore fps, rts competetive multiplayer people are abounds as well. Then there are causal PC gamers who play flash games.

Nintendo is kind of weird since they are only very popular in Japan and the US. Nintendo Europe really doesn't sell so well, although I heard there were many DSes sold in the UK. The reason is that only three categories of people currently buy Nintendo products. The hardcore gamers and kids. Kids buy them because there are a shitton of games based on their favorite characters from TV. Hardcore gamers buy it because they know Zelda is the real deal. And nostalgia/fanboys buy it because they are all about Mario.

It is my understanding, which may be wrong, that the original NES did not explode all over the world. Nintendo only really struck it big in the US and Japan with the original console. That loses the entire nostalgia category. It also seems like in most of the world outside the US and Japan consoles and console games do not fully penetrate. The full library of games simply doesn't get released on time, and often not at all. Therefore the hardcore players often go to the PC which is a worldwide gaming equalizer, especially because of things like Steam. Because of the first two, the kids miss out.

It's actually quite sad since most of the world simply can't enjoy all the terrific games for Nintendo's consoles very easily. The number of people in the world who will simply never get a chance to play such greats as Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door or Wind Waker is frightening. I'm glad I live where I can get the goods.

dutopia

Cool, thanks for that.
Listening to the show and hearing about these games which i have never seen or heard about at all, i will definatly check out. I played WW on my friends GC before and just couldn't get into it, possibly becuase it's so diffirent to what im use to.

I have a PC where i play MO's, like Guild Wars, which im surprised you havent mentioned yet (I couldnt get into WoW really) FPS with Steam of course, and strategy games. I use my PC to emulate a large collection of NES and SNES though, which we get a lot of fun out of. The days of Mario Kart, Starfox, Double Dragon 3 (This game is almost impossible, we have never finished it) and the like were really the glory days!

I have a PS2 aswell, only for FFX and Tekken 5!

Apreche

We don't talk about MMOs because we hate MMOs. One of these days we'll do an episode about why MMOs suck.

glimpster

In my town, most people have psp's. All I've heard is trash talk about the DS.

I personally have found the control scheme to be a little awkward, especially when I play Metroid on it. That, and you have to pay for everything that comes with it. You'll have to buy extra stuff to watch tv, have to buy your web browser, the list goes on and on. Sony made it easy. They give you the choice of playing PSP games or hacking it and playing PS1, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB games and more. Plus you get all the homebrew software.

At this E3, they announced a keyboard was coming out for the PSP. That's gonna be sweet.

Farragar

Yeah, where i live (the UK) most people seem to have psp's - I know 7 people with PSP's and 2 people with DS's I quite like the DS and if i can find a cheap one i gotta get me one.
Psp keyboard sounds cool, i've got bloody fast at the onscreen thing though.

Rym

The northeast and northern midwest of the US are pretty-much dominated by the DS. It seems as though the PSP's primary market currently is the midwestern US and overseas (excluding Asia).

I find that interesting, but I have nothing insightful to say about it. ;^)

Ametto

If you buy all of the extra stuff for the DS, it'll come out to be the same price, at worst, as the PSP. Also you can hack the DS cheaply, too. So benefits of the DS is the same as the PSP, with the exception of the screen.

Rym

What extra stuff is there for the DS? I've bought no accessories aside from a cheapo bag to stick all my games in.

glimpster

Does the PSP have any way of storing information? How big are the cards that hold the games?

I think the only way I'd buy a DS is the Light version. It's $130 though and the only thing I'd be able to do on it is play games, and that's it. No way I'm spending more money than that. If they provided some way of listening to music or watch video, basically making it more like a PDA, maybe I'd consider it.

Apreche

I think the only way I'd buy a DS is the Light version. It's $130 though and the only thing I'd be able to do on it is play games, and that's it. No way I'm spending more money than that. If they provided some way of listening to music or watch video, basically making it more like a PDA, maybe I'd consider it.

There are two types of gadgets in the world. There are single-purpose gadgets which do one thing very well. Then there are multi-purpose gadgets which do many things, but not as well. A phone-camera has a phone and a camera. But neither the phone nor the camera are as good as what you can get if you have a separate phone and a separate camera.

Since portable gaming is really important to me, I don't want to half-ass it. So I have a separate device, the DS, which does games and nothing else. Music and podcasts are also very important to me, so I have a separate device, the iPod nano, to handle that. Phone calls, cameras, PDAs, etc. are not so important to me. That is why at the end of this year I am going to get a smartphone that will combine all of that stuff into one device. I do have a separate digital camera, but I only use it at cons and such.

The PSP does do a whole lot of stuff. But it doesn't do any of those things as well as other devices. Sure, it's convenient to carry less gadets. If I could, I would carry just one device that did everything perfectly. But since the PSP isn't as good at gaming as the DS I get a separate device to do music and such. Notice I don't care at all about mobile video, so I don't even have a device that does that.

You can get a TV with a VCR and a DVD player built into it. But you don't because that is a lot shittier than a TV with separate VCR and DVD player. A Swiss Army Knife or a Leatherman have a lot of tools in them. But those screwdrivers and knives are not as good, or as useful as individual tools. The same is true with the DS and the PSP. The PSP has a crappy screwdriver, a crappy knife and a crappy bottle-opener. The DS is just a big beautiful sharp and dangerous knife.

glimpster

Let's not have an argument on which of the two handhelds (DS and PSP) plays games better. That's all a matter of opinion. With the games I play on a day to day basis, PSP games are better for me in the long run. I'd be more content playing GTA than playing Mario. Goes the same for Burnout vs Mario Kart.

Oh, I see a patern. Seems like most of the games out for DS are following Nintendo's marketing style very well: make games with all the classic characters. I don't find that a part of the PSP, thank god. I don't know about you, but I think I've seen enough Italian plumbers in my day.

Rym: "What extra stuff is there for the DS?"

Good question, nothing. Why is that? Because the DS has no capabilities but for playing games. Why would a DS need accessories like a headset, keyboard, or a GB memory stick, like a PSP has? The PSP doesn't need them, they're just options, expansions of the already awesome hardware they give you. The DS doesn't have these things, because it couldn't possibly use them.

Oh wait, omg, the DS is getting a TV tuner. Too bad in 2009 it won't work anymore. I guess I can you use my Base Station to watch all my cable channels on my PSP.

Ametto

What I meant for the extra stuff are the following:
-movie player you can get at lik sang. It can play movies and songs which you would store on the cartridge.
-opera, which would be coming out any time soon.
-you can also get some sd card based cartridge from lik sang and play roms on it.

Glimp7, yes there are some games that are based on classic charaters. But in contrast to that there are original games for the DS. Games like Under The Knife and Feel the Magic are definitely original in the video game genre. PSP games so far are just game stereotypes with new graphics.

Apreche

I think you punk kids need to learn the same lesson SEGA learned with the Game Gear. The game gear had all the features, a color screen, a TV tuner, everything. Nintendo kicked their ass with the original Game Boy. The original Game Boy had a green screen and only played games. Why did Nintendo win? One word, Tetris. The Game Gear didn't have portable games, it just had console games which were forced into being portable. The Game Boy had games designed to be carried around. Pokemon anyone? History repeats and not enough people have learned the lesson.

thaneofcawdor

I have to agree with Scott (ouch, that hurts!). While I'm a mad PC/PS2 gamer, and would probably like the PSP games and features, I bought a DS. Why? Because I have a PSP too, in a sense, except it's in three separate gadgets; a notebook computer, an iPod, and a PS2. I have all those, so I don't need a device that does all those things too, except poorly. A DS, on the other hand, does what it does really well, and that's all I expect it to do.

glimpster

Got damn! The game gear sucked. My parents were stupid and got me that instead of the gameboy. I was sooo pissed. "Here son, have fun with this heavy piece of shit that takes 10 AA batteries and 5 hours of battery life." : ( Don't try to compare the PSP and the game gear. Nothin' there.

I use my PSP everyday. I watch downloaded episodes of south park on it, listen to all my music, watch TV, and play GTA, Socom, and Syphon Filter. Oh, I forgot. I listen to Geeknights on it too. Ohhhhhh!!!

If it's now an argument of how well the PSP does what it does, it hands down does everything well. Besides, all DS can do is play games. That's all you have to grade it on.

If you're that crazy about Tetris, you can play almost every Tetris game on an emulator on the PSP.

Johannes Uglyfred II

Glimp7 and Scott: Everyone has different things that they need or would want in a handheld gaming system, and their purchasing choices reflect that. Whether the DS or the PSP is "better" is rather subjective; looking at all the things Glimp does with his PSP, you can't deny that he's gotten an incredible amount of enjoyment and use out of it. As long as you both love the systems you bought, and they do what you need/want them to do, isn't that the point? :P

deaf-mute

I recently bought a PSP. It was actually GN that made me think about it, as an interesting morsel for you :D

I agree with your point with the comparison of a swiss army knife, but then I have to add something; Games are basically music and video. Only you can interact with the video, but we'll not go there. You can play music on the PSP. Its the same music that the games have on them, only you can play the music you want while Not in a game. The video would have been more effort for them, and it does it well. I have an iPod. the PSP is never going to take it over for music, unless it gets a big-ass hard drive and music support thats just as good as the iPod.

I also agree with mister uglyfred that the only thing that matters is that everyone loves their console of choice.

I simply don't care too much for Nintendo games. Sure, I love the old-school mario games, and I enjoyed pokemon way back when, but most of the other games people worship nintendo for didn't entertain me for long. most of my friends play Smash Brothers (and sequels), I played for five minutes and went and found something to do on the net while waiting for them to get bored and watch a movie.
At least I can understand why people like Smash Brothers, and why people like the DS. Most people can't just seem to find the good side in the 'opposition'. I just know that DS is not for me, and that the PSP is.

Signed, DS (I had to... Those really are my initials :P )

Cremlian

I submit that people are still being turned off by graphic or style before they get to the game play. The reason the DS is selling more worldwide is because it's innovating with it's games. While they may have the same "style" or "graphics" of past games. The Games are vastly different from their predessors they are based on. I submit that while you can not judge whether a DS or PSP has "More fun games" You can judge whether the games are more original (in the way you play them) and unique. I submit on a Gaming usefulness guide, DS trumphs PSP. If you take in account all the other features, then the PSP trumphs the DS.

However, it's hard to say even the statement that "this is not for me" If you asked me whether I'd be playing Trama Center and a game about a Lawyer a year later, I would laugh at you. of course now I am and enjoying myself with games like this.

It's sorta like Nintendo's tag line for E3. "Playing is believing" If you just saw the Wii Tennis game, you would laugh and wonder what the big deal is with it's simpl e graphics, until you actually picked it up or saw someone play it. I submit that the DS works on a similiar level. People don't get the DS till someone introduces them to it or they actually try it out. However the PSP is way more self-explainatory and usually underwhelms when actual games are played on it (my experience). I know that I tried Grand Theft Auto and Lummines on the system and wasn't impressed. I was however more amused by the illegal use of Mortal Kombat that had been emulated on the system.

but yea, your opinion is your opinion... (I know I'm right ^_^)

glimpster

Like I said, I have both DS and PSP. I've said that PSP gives me more enjoyment, but that doesn't mean I dislike the DS. I'm just explaining what I've found most useful to me personally. It might / might not be the same for you. What I find enjoyable may be different from what you do.

Rym and Scott have this ongoing habbit of bashing PSP, and saying that everybody hates it and that you should just buy a DS. That's far from the truth and it might take away the experience of using the PSP. It might be a fact that they're not being used in the northeastern states (cons), but what about the midwest? Don't take on scenario and apply it to everything.

I know this is off topic, but it's like No Child Left Behind. The system tries to apply the same law for all regions of the United States, but it just doesn't work that way. Before they go around making policies at the moments notice, they should do their research.

Apreche

If you need proof that the PSP is not being used very much watch some videos from E3. Especially watch the video of people waiting in line to use the Wii. All you see around you are people standing in a circle with DSes. Not one PSP seen outside of Sony's booth. This is E3 we're talking about here, the gaming Mecca. If you don't see a portable system there, then you have a problem.

dutopia

In fairness most of the people in the Wii line are probably big Nintendo fans, not just because it's Nintendos next gen console but you would have to be a crazy fan to stand in a line that long. Anyways the DS is big in the U.S, PSP is bigger in Europe, and im sure they are both as popular in Asia.

Apreche

Sure, plenty of people in the Wii line are Nintendo fans. But the point is that the line was the longest line ever at an E3. It might even be the longest line at any trade show ever. If you take into account that the fact that the people at E3 represent a good cross-section of the gaming population in the US, you can't assume those are all hardcore Nintendo fans. The fact is at E3 to play a PS3 or Xbox you had to wait no more than 5 minutes. if what you say about all those people in the Wii line being Nintendo fans is true, then 90% of gamers in the US are Nintendo fans and it's game over for the other two groups.

In the US the DS is beating the PSP the way the GameBoy beat the Game Gear. There are enough PSPs sold to keep it alive, but not for an extended period of time. In Europe the PSP is beating the DS, but not by a tremendous landslide. In Asia the PSP is poop, especially in Japan. If you look at the top 10 or so games in Japan right now, 8 of them are DS games. The only thing doing worse than PSP in Japan is the 360.

glimpster

I watched footage of E3 all the way through, and the only DS's I saw the were all the ones Nintendo set up for people to test games. They were there, but from what I saw, the DS's were barred to the circular tables. Otherwise I didn't see them on the show floor, but I probably missed them.

Apreche

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/nintendo/the-line-for-wii-174027.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUHORFW4q0

Look at the people standing huddle in circles.

glimpster

Dammit! My school is blocking the pages. I'll look at 'em when I get home.

But before I look, are you sure these are people using DS's. They might be playing limp biscuit or something.

Apreche

In the second video the guy walks very slowly. There is no question about the insane number of DSes. At one point he even says "DS LAN party".

glimpster

Ok, that's one example. How sure are you that there weren't PSP lan parties at E3.

Rym

Because Kotaku reported it as such, and not a single one has been present in any photograph.

Apreche

Here are Japanese software sales for last week.
http://gonintendo.com/?p=2621