But it isn't "random people." It's people in the imageboard "culture." And 711chan's /i/ and /xenu/ are still going at full force.
Using the term "imageboard culture" is about as meaningless as saying "internet culture". Also, are you suggesting that 711chan has anywhere near the numbers of people 4chan had?
Using the term "imageboard culture" is about as meaningless as saying "internet culture".
No it isn't. Most people on the popular imageboards (7chan, 4chan, iichan, etc) got there through some sort of geeky hobby (vidja games, technology, anime, etc). Although everything is done anonymously, there is still a strong sense of community on all of those boards.
Also, are you suggesting that 711chan has anywhere near the numbers of people 4chan had?
No, of course not. I'm just saying that /xenu/ has organized the protests very well. Seriously, the Orlando protest was amazing.
The only things the various imageboards have in common are certain memes and customs. I suppose that justifies the term "imageboard culture" (a point that I will relinquish to you).
That aside, their sense of community is limited to whichever board they're on. For instance, 4chan's /b/tards aren't loyal to 4chan itself. Their sense of community is limited to like-minded people. In /b/ and /m/'s case (both are disjointed boards with numerous differing groups present), they aren't even united within their own board. As there is only a basic level of community within each of the boards sub-boards, expecting the sites themselves to feel any sort of loyalty to each other is ridiculous. The people on places like 4chan and 7chan tend to view each other with contempt, to say the least.
Heh, forgot I was with my dad, so no-go on the protest. That, and I was already chickening out after （　ﾟДﾟ）warned me about stalking and harassment... *wimp*
Heh, forgot I was with my dad, so no-go on the protest. That, and I was already chickening out after （　ﾟÔﾟ）warned me about stalking and harassment... *wimp*
Oceania: 200-300 in Sydney, Australia 100 in Perth, Australia 100 in Brisbane, Australia 150 in Adelaide, Australia 150 in Melbourne, Australia 17 in Auckland, New Zealand 10 in Christchurch, New Zealand 20 in Wellington, New Zealand Total: 847
Asia: 1 in Tokyo, Japan 4 in Tel Aviv, Israel Total: 5
Europe: 500 in London, United Kingdom 60 in Oslo, Norway 20 in York, United Kingdom 6 in Zürich, Switzerland 5 in Geneve, Switzerland 25 in Gothenburg, Sweden 80 in Dublin, Ireland 25 in Berlin, Germany 40-50 in Amsterdam, The Netherlands 35-40 in Birmingham, United Kingdom 20 in Plymouth, United Kingdom 130 in Edinburgh, United Kindom 150 in Manchester, United Kingdom 12 in Vienna (Wien), Austria 50 in Copehagen, Denmark 3 in Aarhus. Denmark 20-25 in Duesseldorf, Germany 30 in Brussels, Belgium 30 in Paris, France 15 in Sunderland, United Kindom 15-25 in Hamburg, Germany 50 in Stockholm, Sweden 5 in Brighton, United Kingdom Total: 1356
North-America: 200 in Clearwater, Florida 200 in New York City, New York 80 in Colombus, Ohio 75 in Cincinnati, Ohio 15 in Cleveland, Ohio 150-200 in Portland, Oregon 200 in Toronto, Canada 5 in Brunswick, Maine 50 in Buffalo, New York 25-30 in Indianapolis, Indiana 100 in Detroit, Michigan 160 in Austin, Texas 100-150 in Houston, Texas 90 in Denver, Colorado 270 in Boston, Massachusetts 300 in Los Angeles, California 100 in Minneapolis, Minnesota 200 in Seattle, Washington 115 in Dallas, Texas 30-40 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 40-50 in Tucson, Arizona 40 in Edmonton, Canada 150-200 in Atlanta, Georgia 200-300 in San Francisco, California 100 in Sacramento, California 25 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin 45 in Nashville, Tennessee 80 in Montreal, Canada 65-70 in Kansas City, Missouri 25 in Wichita, Kansas 135 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 200 in Orlando, Florida 60 in Phoenix, Arizona 100-110 in Miami, Florida 200 in Washington, D.C. 65-150 in Chicago, Illinois 30 in Champaign, Illinois 40 in San Diego, CA 25 in Memphis, Tennessee 140-200 in Vancouver, Canada 50 in St. Louis, Missouri 35 in New Haven, Connecticut 50 in Charlotte, North Carolina 40 in Louisville, Kentucky 35 in Richmond, Virginia 70 in Salt Lake City, Utah 10-15 in Ontario, Canada 10-15 in Rochester, New York 40 in Albany, New York 20 in New Orleans, Louisiana 15 in Reno, Nevada 12-15 in Boulder, Colorado 30 in Halifax, Canada 8 in San Antonio, Texas 20 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Total: 5073
Yes, Los Angeles, represent. I think that it is important to highlight that these protests were not solely the ream of the chans but has had quite a few outside activists.
So, I wonder when Anonymous will start getting some backlash? Sort of like the backlash I've been seeing against Ron Paul supporters on the web. The only way annoying groups like Scientology or PETA are going to go away is by first removing their tax-exempt status.
I don't think its really possible to backlash against anonymous. It's not like Scientology can take down 4chan or the Anon videos from Youtube. On another note, Boston was a great turn out. The cops didn't give them much trouble I hear. I wished I could have been there, But I've been laid up for the past few days.
London, from what I've seen (I would be a Scott so...) was hilarious. They were situated between a Church of England and a Church of Scientology (or whatever they call themselves) so it was like-
Church! Cult! Church! Cult!
and then a policeman rides in on a horse (as Albian law enforcement is want to do) and then it became
Church! Cult! Church! HORSE! Cult!
And there was Rickrolling, and thinking with Portals, it was all a fun time.
I continue to be dismayed at the weight placed on Channer involvement in the Feb. 10 protests against the Church of Scientology. Undoubtedly they were there, but no one seems to have brought up the folks who are not members of 4chan, 711chan, what have you--the folks who were members of the CoS and elected to leave, only to have their lives clouded by the harassment tactics the Church espouses. Then there's the family members of people caught in the CoS's practices of brainwashing and conditioning who hope to speak out against what they see as a dangerous cult.
Has no one read what the Church of Scientology has perpetrated against people it deems to be "subversive"? About Narconon? About the working conditions for some people within the organization? Or maybe the gulags of the Rehabilitation Project Force?
Please, the information is there in the first post. Read it and try to look past the Channers. Maybe then we'll see more of you out at the next round of protests.
what have you--the folks who were members of the CoS and elected to leave, only to have their lives clouded by the harassment tactics the Church espouses. Then there's the family members of people caught in the CoS's practices of brainwashing and conditioning who hope to speak out against what they see as a dangerous cult.
We know all about those people. However, I didn't see them having any significant presence or involvement with the recent "anonymous" protests.
Please, the information is there in the first post. Read it and try to look past the Channers. Maybe then we'll see more of you out at the next round of protests.
That's just it. So few people participated that I really don't foresee any impact. If anything, I'm convinced that "anonymous" doesn't exist outside of a very small group of young people.
We know all about those people. However, I didn't see them having any significant presence or involvement with the recent "anonymous" protests.
Arnie Lerma of lermanet.com was at the DC protest. Mark Bunker, known on the Intertubez as "Wise Beard Man" of xenutv.com was at the DC protest. There's two big anti-Scieno names right away.
I've also read an unconfirmed report from one of the protests that three members of Lisa McPherson's family approached members of Anonymous. You remember Lisa--the whole reason February 10th was chosen. In addition, there were ex-Scientologists present at some protests. I don't have names or locations, but the information is out there.
So few people participated that I really don't foresee any impact. If anything, I'm convinced that "anonymous" doesn't exist outside of a very small group of young people.
Several people who didn't participate in the Feb. 10th protests are planning to attend the next batch on March 15th prescisely because this first round went as well as it did. Others agree that some people choose to support the actions of Anonymous without actively participating at an on-the-street level because they've got more to lose with regards career and family than a balls-to-the-wall bunch of college and high school students. Some of those who were on the fence are changing their minds about participating in the next wave.
I think we're circling around the issue of attendance this past weekend. You say that not many attended, and therefore it isn't significant. What I say is that for something that rose up from nothing about a month ago, with no central structure, dependent upon word of mouth plus a few forums and repositories of information, to have protests across the globe maintain a consistent message (and that includes /b/tardedness and memes) is something of note.
To counterpoint with the flash mob you cited in the Monday show, yes, that took loads of coordination and effort to have it turn out the way it did. But those folks weren't protesting a greedy cult that passes itself off as a religion, one that has a history of trying to destroy its opponents. As such it puts up a formidable, intimidating front; bullbaiting, tailing protesters leaving the scene, videotaping and photographing those who speak out against the CoS. And that's just for starters! Imagine the fun that can happen if the CoS brands you as a troublemaker and starts picketing your neighborhood. That, and worse things, have happened. You think Disney is litigious? Peanuts compared to the CoS.
Longtime anti-CoS folks like Arnie Lerma and Mark Bunker have said that they're amazed at the level of support that the Anonymous protests produced. In the past they've been lucky to get maybe a dozen for a single rally at a single site. For there to be over five thousand at a couple of dozen worldwide sites speaks highly of the latent opposition to the CoS that now has a good outlet, one that allows for wider participation.
Rich, you don't have to convince us of how evil Scientology is. We hate them moreso than most of the people protesting. It's just going to take a lot more to impress us.
Fair enough. As long as we're on the same page that CoS=bad, it's all good.
I can understand the need to see more than just a single wave of protests, and I hope that Anonymous can provide that. Perhaps, with time, more than just Anonymous.
Fair enough. As long as we're on the same page that CoS=bad, it's all good.
I can understand the need to see more than just a single wave of protests, and I hope that Anonymous can provide that. Perhaps, with time, more than just Anonymous.
According to the Party Van wiki, they plan on trying to get rid of CoS's tax exemption. I doubt they will be able to do this.
So few people participated that I really don't foresee any impact. If anything, I'm convinced that "anonymous" doesn't exist outside of a very small group of young people.
Well, the point isn't really to gather an incredible amount of numbers. This small movement was able to garner quite a bit of media attention AROUND THE WORLD. THAT is obviously more impressive than a simple flash mob.
9000 people is small? It was a world-wide protest, so don't just look at one location. And I couldn't go. We moved to a new place the 10th. I did find a card in the train home last Monday though. I smiled.
EDIT: Also, on the show Scott or Rym said that Anonymous could learn something from that ImprovEverywhere Flash Mob... but those were also 200 people, but they were doing nothing, made a great sight, but did nothing. Whereas the protests had a goal other than to entertain, and were active for more than 5 minutes.
If 9000 people WORLDWIDE is all they could muster after a long, concentrated effort, then yes, 9000 is pretty damn small.
And I couldn't go.
It seems a lot of people are saying that.
Also, on the show Scott or Rym said that Anonymous could learn something from that ImprovEverywhere Flash Mob... but those were also 200 people, but they were doing nothing, made a great sight, but did nothing.
They also were able to form a lot faster, with a lot less public coordination and planning, and in a much more professional manner. They were a true flashmob.
Anon, on the other hand, was little more than a slow congregation of people gathered through an extensive, directed, public effort. If those protesters had appeared out of nowhere (without everyone on the Internet already knowing about it), or if that general call to arms had called in tens of thousands, then it would have been impressive, the former as a powerful example of the flashmob idea, and the latter as proof of solidarity.
Despite everyone who's savvy to the net being fully aware of anon's plans, very few of these people participated in any way. Anon is smaller, weaker, less organized, and less interesting than I had originally thought.
And I too want to know the reasons why those people couldn't go also.
after a long, concentrated effort
What long, concentrated effort? Discussing something should be done? Like a protest? Add a date and a wiki on how to act in a protest and a few propaganda videos to try and get 'outsiders' in on the protest? Long indeed, but how do you want to get potential other people involved else? Concentrated? Hardly if you ask me.
They were a true flashmob.
So... you consider a protest to be a flash mob? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying here that the Anonymous protests were a flashmob? You are arguing that apples are pears here! When the only thing they have in common is a group of people and some minor organization to inform people what to do. Or they both are fruit depending on which comparison you're looking at.
They also were able to form a lot faster, with a lot less public coordination and planning, and in a much more professional manner.
So how do you know they were able to form faster? Are you in on it? Were you amongst the people informed that on date x at location y something awesome would be done and hoped for your participation? This flashmob organized silently, to keep out any outsiders from participating, it also organizes all sorts of things because that's what they do, i.e. they are way more professional than a group of people who normally talk shit to each other and post disturbing/funny images.
Then you also forget to take into account that the majority of the internet have never heard of the concept image board, and thus would only be able to get the required information through youtube, but which person who doesn't already know about it goes to search youtube for propaganda against scientology? You also forget that the (American) media portrays 'Anonymous' to be this evil group of hackers out to ruin your life, so even if they hear about these protests beforehand they will seriously reconsider going to said protest for who knows the actual intentions of this scary elite group of anonymous hackers. And they will reconsider even longer if the info they get also warns they might get harassed and stalked for merely participating in that protest.
Also, keep in mind that most of people didn't actually expect ANYTHING to happen, thus, they didn't attend. March 15th will definitely show a larger turnout.
Comments
That aside, their sense of community is limited to whichever board they're on. For instance, 4chan's /b/tards aren't loyal to 4chan itself. Their sense of community is limited to like-minded people. In /b/ and /m/'s case (both are disjointed boards with numerous differing groups present), they aren't even united within their own board. As there is only a basic level of community within each of the boards sub-boards, expecting the sites themselves to feel any sort of loyalty to each other is ridiculous. The people on places like 4chan and 7chan tend to view each other with contempt, to say the least.
This was really really successful.
Oceania:
200-300 in Sydney, Australia
100 in Perth, Australia
100 in Brisbane, Australia
150 in Adelaide, Australia
150 in Melbourne, Australia
17 in Auckland, New Zealand
10 in Christchurch, New Zealand
20 in Wellington, New Zealand
Total: 847
Asia:
1 in Tokyo, Japan
4 in Tel Aviv, Israel
Total: 5
Europe:
500 in London, United Kingdom
60 in Oslo, Norway
20 in York, United Kingdom
6 in Zürich, Switzerland
5 in Geneve, Switzerland
25 in Gothenburg, Sweden
80 in Dublin, Ireland
25 in Berlin, Germany
40-50 in Amsterdam, The Netherlands
35-40 in Birmingham, United Kingdom
20 in Plymouth, United Kingdom
130 in Edinburgh, United Kindom
150 in Manchester, United Kingdom
12 in Vienna (Wien), Austria
50 in Copehagen, Denmark
3 in Aarhus. Denmark
20-25 in Duesseldorf, Germany
30 in Brussels, Belgium
30 in Paris, France
15 in Sunderland, United Kindom
15-25 in Hamburg, Germany
50 in Stockholm, Sweden
5 in Brighton, United Kingdom
Total: 1356
North-America:
200 in Clearwater, Florida
200 in New York City, New York
80 in Colombus, Ohio
75 in Cincinnati, Ohio
15 in Cleveland, Ohio
150-200 in Portland, Oregon
200 in Toronto, Canada
5 in Brunswick, Maine
50 in Buffalo, New York
25-30 in Indianapolis, Indiana
100 in Detroit, Michigan
160 in Austin, Texas
100-150 in Houston, Texas
90 in Denver, Colorado
270 in Boston, Massachusetts
300 in Los Angeles, California
100 in Minneapolis, Minnesota
200 in Seattle, Washington
115 in Dallas, Texas
30-40 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
40-50 in Tucson, Arizona
40 in Edmonton, Canada
150-200 in Atlanta, Georgia
200-300 in San Francisco, California
100 in Sacramento, California
25 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin
45 in Nashville, Tennessee
80 in Montreal, Canada
65-70 in Kansas City, Missouri
25 in Wichita, Kansas
135 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
200 in Orlando, Florida
60 in Phoenix, Arizona
100-110 in Miami, Florida
200 in Washington, D.C.
65-150 in Chicago, Illinois
30 in Champaign, Illinois
40 in San Diego, CA
25 in Memphis, Tennessee
140-200 in Vancouver, Canada
50 in St. Louis, Missouri
35 in New Haven, Connecticut
50 in Charlotte, North Carolina
40 in Louisville, Kentucky
35 in Richmond, Virginia
70 in Salt Lake City, Utah
10-15 in Ontario, Canada
10-15 in Rochester, New York
40 in Albany, New York
20 in New Orleans, Louisiana
15 in Reno, Nevada
12-15 in Boulder, Colorado
30 in Halifax, Canada
8 in San Antonio, Texas
20 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Total: 5073
Church!
Cult!
Church!
Cult!
and then a policeman rides in on a horse (as Albian law enforcement is want to do) and then it became
Church!
Cult!
Church!
HORSE!
Cult!
And there was Rickrolling, and thinking with Portals, it was all a fun time.
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/netbeat-project-chanology.php
It is pointless hatred and obvious stupidity like this that makes me lose faith in my fellow man.
Has no one read what the Church of Scientology has perpetrated against people it deems to be "subversive"? About Narconon? About the working conditions for some people within the organization? Or maybe the gulags of the Rehabilitation Project Force?
Please, the information is there in the first post. Read it and try to look past the Channers. Maybe then we'll see more of you out at the next round of protests.
Mark Bunker, known on the Intertubez as "Wise Beard Man" of xenutv.com was at the DC protest.
There's two big anti-Scieno names right away.
I've also read an unconfirmed report from one of the protests that three members of Lisa McPherson's family approached members of Anonymous. You remember Lisa--the whole reason February 10th was chosen. In addition, there were ex-Scientologists present at some protests. I don't have names or locations, but the information is out there. Several people who didn't participate in the Feb. 10th protests are planning to attend the next batch on March 15th prescisely because this first round went as well as it did. Others agree that some people choose to support the actions of Anonymous without actively participating at an on-the-street level because they've got more to lose with regards career and family than a balls-to-the-wall bunch of college and high school students. Some of those who were on the fence are changing their minds about participating in the next wave.
I think we're circling around the issue of attendance this past weekend. You say that not many attended, and therefore it isn't significant. What I say is that for something that rose up from nothing about a month ago, with no central structure, dependent upon word of mouth plus a few forums and repositories of information, to have protests across the globe maintain a consistent message (and that includes /b/tardedness and memes) is something of note.
To counterpoint with the flash mob you cited in the Monday show, yes, that took loads of coordination and effort to have it turn out the way it did. But those folks weren't protesting a greedy cult that passes itself off as a religion, one that has a history of trying to destroy its opponents. As such it puts up a formidable, intimidating front; bullbaiting, tailing protesters leaving the scene, videotaping and photographing those who speak out against the CoS. And that's just for starters! Imagine the fun that can happen if the CoS brands you as a troublemaker and starts picketing your neighborhood. That, and worse things, have happened. You think Disney is litigious? Peanuts compared to the CoS.
Longtime anti-CoS folks like Arnie Lerma and Mark Bunker have said that they're amazed at the level of support that the Anonymous protests produced. In the past they've been lucky to get maybe a dozen for a single rally at a single site. For there to be over five thousand at a couple of dozen worldwide sites speaks highly of the latent opposition to the CoS that now has a good outlet, one that allows for wider participation.
I can understand the need to see more than just a single wave of protests, and I hope that Anonymous can provide that. Perhaps, with time, more than just Anonymous.
EDIT: Also, on the show Scott or Rym said that Anonymous could learn something from that ImprovEverywhere Flash Mob... but those were also 200 people, but they were doing nothing, made a great sight, but did nothing. Whereas the protests had a goal other than to entertain, and were active for more than 5 minutes.
Anon, on the other hand, was little more than a slow congregation of people gathered through an extensive, directed, public effort. If those protesters had appeared out of nowhere (without everyone on the Internet already knowing about it), or if that general call to arms had called in tens of thousands, then it would have been impressive, the former as a powerful example of the flashmob idea, and the latter as proof of solidarity.
Despite everyone who's savvy to the net being fully aware of anon's plans, very few of these people participated in any way. Anon is smaller, weaker, less organized, and less interesting than I had originally thought.
Then you also forget to take into account that the majority of the internet have never heard of the concept image board, and thus would only be able to get the required information through youtube, but which person who doesn't already know about it goes to search youtube for propaganda against scientology? You also forget that the (American) media portrays 'Anonymous' to be this evil group of hackers out to ruin your life, so even if they hear about these protests beforehand they will seriously reconsider going to said protest for who knows the actual intentions of this scary elite group of anonymous hackers. And they will reconsider even longer if the info they get also warns they might get harassed and stalked for merely participating in that protest.
I'll leave it at that for now.