I found Geeknights after watching a panel Rym and Scott did at Otakon 2008. I listened for a little bit, then I stopped when I went to college for a year. Recently I bought an iPod Touch (yes I'm well aware of how evil Apple is) to listen to as I work, and I remembered the podcast as I was perusing iTunes. Now I'm catching up on episodes I missed in the interim.
Um... Apple is evil? In the same way Burt is evil? Or the same way the Pope is evil (as in, actually evil)?
Three letters. D-R-M. If I recall correctly you've said the DRM doesn't affect you because you don't have things that utilize the DRM before. That's as maybe, but it happens to other people and they suffer for it. If anyone suffers because of a pointless limitation set by a company on a product that has billions of potential ways to do good, then they are automatically evil.
If anyone suffers because of a pointless limitation set by a company on a product that has billions of potential ways to do good, then they are automatically evil.
Geeknights sets the limitation that I can't use their podcast to make money. Thus, Rym and Scott are automatically evil.
GeekNights episodes are licensed under the Creative Commons, attribution, non-commercial license. This means that you can share it, remix it, redistribute it, excerpt it, and do just about anything else you like so long as you give us credit for the original content and don't (attempt) to make any money.
If anyone suffers because of a pointless limitation set by a company on a product that has billions of potential ways to do good, then they are automatically evil.
Geeknights sets the limitation that I can't use their podcast to make money. Thus, Rym and Scott are automatically evil.
That may be, but at least they're not putting codes into their podcasts that, if you utilize said podcasts in a manner they did not intend, the code breaks your shit.
Um... Apple is evil? In the same way Burt is evil? Or the same way the Pope is evil (as in, actually evil)?
Apple is evil because people are stupid. They seem to forget that Apple don't give a fuck about you, only money. They forget that Apple doesn't even give a fuck about it's own products - they are means to an end, and that end is the company's profit. They will do whatever they reasonably can to increase their profits, and that's it.
Essentially? People forget that they're a corporation, and that Apple isn't there for them, Apple is there for Apple. The reason you have a shiny glass and metal iPhone 4 in your hand is not because Apple love you, but because Apple love your money, and giving you a shiny bit of metal and plastic that does things you think are cool and makes pleasing noises is nothing more than a means to extract that money from you.
DRM? Yawn. Just don't buy DRM encumbered shit. The only thing on my iPod with DRM is from Audible, none of the music, even the tracks I bought from iTunes. On my iPhone, I guess the apps have DRM, but it's not as if I paid for any of them, and couldn't get exactly the same functionality on more "open" devices. On my MacBook, none of the Apple applications that I have are encumbered by DRM, only those by Adobe and other third party companies.
So, let me get this straight: Apple is one of many, many, many, many, many, many companies that uses DRM in some cases as part of an overall business model, and yet they alone are singled out as being evil? If, by the same rules, I had to make a list of all other companies equally evil, it would very long and essentially meaningless.
On the other hand, I think the Catholic church is evil on a systemic level. Not every Catholic person is evil, and maybe not even any single Catholic priest or cardinal or anyone who works for the church is evil. But however the church became what it is today, utterly self-serving to the detriment of millions of people, I would say it is now evil.
Apple: maybe one day gullible people will lose their music collection. Though, by then, there'll probably live streaming subscription services that cost $10 a month, and they won't care. The Catholic Church: helping the spread of AIDS through science denial, protecting child rapists, etc.
Seriously, if you are going to use the term evil, at least make it count. Or make it a joke (Burt is Evil).
There was an excellent Cracked article about WHY precisely Apple is/was/will continue to be, evil, and here it is http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html. I'm not usually one to link to Cracked, and I'm sure anyone up-to-date enough with technology will know most of this stuff already, but for the layman that's a good starting primer into the evil that is Apple.
And yes any company that uses DRM or any method of limiting distribution is evil. Microsoft is evil for other reasons, and most anyone who is "closed" or only allows "closed" sources to be used in conjunction with their products is also evil.
None of those things are unique or even terribly surprising or shady, let alone evil, it's just that apple is the first one that has succeeded in doing it. Hell, the last one carries on a bit about Apple wanting program devices to show you unskippable advertising. How is that different from a shit-ton of other companies, blogs, sites, etc, etc?\
I repeat - People carrying on about apple being evil seem to have no concept of the fact that Apple is not your fucking friend. You do not meet Apple down the bar for drinks, Or get apple to come and feed your dog while you're on holidays. Apple will not help you move, or bring over some beers and watch the Jets game. Repeat after me - Apple is a corporation. They do whatever they can to increase their profits, because they are not you fucking friend, they are not your buddy, they are a corporation.
Even the most dickish software companies have got nothing on the oil/textiles/steel/fast food companies. Apple is a bastion of good open business compared to BP, Pizer, General Motors, Proctor and Gamble, Ford, General Atomics, Halliburton, Shell, BAE Systems, Goldman Sacs or JP Morgan. Did you know that they (Apple) gave $1 000 000 to oppose Prop 8
Evil: My dictionary says this: "profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity"
Cracked Article point 1: Says that updates that stops jailbreaks of iPhones are evil. Has two photos with Nazi imagery, and says such an idea is fascist. What? Jailbreaking is legal, as determined by courts of law. If an update breaks the jailbreak, don't install that update. Or, check this out... don't use an iPhone! Use Android instead. If Apple were truly fascist, or evil, they would be trying to ban other people using Android, or to put laws in place, or to torture people who use Android.
You know, like ACTUAL evil organizations like the Nazi party in 1930's Germany.
Cracked Article point 2: Apple threatened a reporter with legal action who revealed secrets about their products. They did this by going through the right and legal channels, and were ultimately defeated. So wait, by following the law, they are evil? If they were truly evil, they could kill or harm the reporter in other ways.
You know, like ACTUAL evil organizations, like totalitarian dictatorships who have journalists assassinated to suppress freedom of the press.
Point 3:
"The article didn't outright say that Steve Jobs has been implanting his employees with psycho-receptive "pain chips" designed to inflict unbearable agony upon the disloyal, but it was pretty heavily implied." Hmmm? And then "Apple didn't torture Danyong themselves, but their maddeningly intense security policies set the mood." So some contractors in China, afraid to lose the Apple dollar, do something evil. I can understand this reflecting badly on Apple, but really? This makes them evil?
Hands up anyone who has ever bought anything made by people with bad working conditions. You see how everyone just put their hands up? That's because this is a part of life. There are probably thousands of Chinese workers punished in inhumane ways by their bosses every day. Yes, it is actually harmful, I agree. But Apple is no different to any other western company in this regards.
Point 4:
App store rules. The same app store that has made many, many, many companies and people very rich, and has enriched the lives of millions of people? Oh no! Some apps aren't allowed! Oh no! That means they'll have to use Android instead. You know, exactly what Steve Jobs says people should do, when questioned about the rules for app developers.
Evil? Hardly.
Point 5:
As far as I can tell, it's just some patent application for a non-existent theoretical product or project. Who gives a shit. If that device comes out, and it annoying, don't buy it.
For fuck's sake, get a grip, people. Didn't Jon Stewart say something like this recently: "If you say everything is evil, nothing is." Save the word evil for when something really is evil.
Meanwhile, describe Apple as, at worst, "Slightly annoying for nerds who buy an Apple product and are then disappointed that it doesn't perform exactly as they want it to."
Jailbreaking is legal, as determined by courts of law.
In fact, until a few months ago, Jailbreaking was illegal - thus, essentially, people breaking the law were calling a company evil for trying to Prevent them from breaking the law.
App store rules. The same app store that has made many, many, many companies and people very rich, and has enriched the lives of millions of people? Oh no! Some apps aren't allowed! Oh no! That means they'll have to use Android instead. You know, exactly what Steve Jobs says people should do, when questioned about the rules for app developers.
Also, apparently, Making rules and then enforcing them when it comes to products you handle the sale for and process transactions for is Evil.
I'm with Luke and Churba. Apple is not mostly good, not mostly evil, just capitalist and mercenary, as are most corporations. I think the main reason people like to hate on them because they are popular and have fanatical fans. It's like people hating on a pop star or something. They like to hear all the celeb gossip about so-and-so being caught making woopie in a Hollywood pool, because it tarnishes the image of a popular figure.
Even the most dickish software companies have got nothing on the oil/textiles/steel/fast food companies. Apple is a bastion of good open business compared to BP, Pizer, General Motors, Proctor and Gamble, Ford, General Atomics, Halliburton, Shell, BAE Systems, Goldman Sacs or JP Morgan. Did you know that they (Apple) gave $1 000 000 to oppose Prop 8
iTunes byAPPLEhelps you get most of your listeners. Ironic. Isn't it.
Yes, but without RSS tech, it would do no such thing. It's what Apple does - use an existing technology to do something that tech already did, put a shiny wrapper on it, and take all the credit.
In fact, until a few months ago, Jailbreaking was illegal - thus, essentially, people breaking the law were calling a company evil for trying to Prevent them from breaking the law.
Also, apparently, Making rules and then enforcing them when it comes to products you handle the sale for and process transactions for is Evil.
In both cases the regulation was arbitrary and stupid because it blocked something you should have been able to do. I /know a lot of Cingular/AT&T; customers that jailbroke their iPhone, not just people who wanted to use it with Verizon or T-Mobile. With the App store, what about the millions of pointless apps that don't do anything more than make a fart noise, or make the device shout "fuck!"? THOSE are okay, but something that "replicates functionality" is somehow not?
In both cases the regulation was arbitrary and stupid because it blocked something you should have been able to do.
A stupid law is still the law.
With the App store, what about the millions of pointless apps that don't do anything more than make a fart noise, or make the device shout "fuck!"? THOSE are okay, but something that "replicates functionality" is somehow not?
It's still their platform. They can do what they like with it that doesn't break the law. You don't like it? Don't bloody use it. And all of those useless fart apps and such? Just don't download them. If Apple wants to put it up there, they can. Your business is deciding to purchase it or not.
Sorry to damage your feeling of entitlement, but you choose to play in their playground, you're choosing to play by their rules. You don't like it? Find another playground. Apple is Not beholden to your ideas on how they should run their products, manage their stores, or do their business. You are beholden to their rules and instructions, though, because you decide to use a service they are providing.
A while back I was surfing the web and doing some research for work. A blog post lead me to an older podcast in which Rym was talking about R. Scott Bakker’s Neuropath. I listened to a few more episodes and have been listening ever since.
I've seen Rym and Scott at ConnectiCon doing a Burning Wheel panel a few years back. Also saw them running around like crazy this past year because they ran the panels at ConnectiCon. Looking forward to having them run it again next year!
Is it just me, or has there been a larger-than-usual influx of new forum members lately?
(Welcome, everybody!)
Well there was that period where new users weren't getting confirmation emails. I tried to register back in March (shortly after discovered GeekNights via PAX East Survival Guide episode). Never got an email so I forgot about the forums, and didn't start posting until several weeks later when I just tried my login and it worked. I remember it got brought up a few months back and Scott fixed it.
Technically, I found GeekNights a few years back when they guest hosted Movies You Should See with Attack the Gas Station! I loved their take on the movie and the fervor with which they defended it. I've been listening to GeekNights ever since. More recently, on their recommendation I purchased and really enjoyed the Lies of Locke Lamora (even though they only thought it was meh), Bokurano, and the Song of Ice and Fire series (many thanks for exposing me and the wife to that one.) So I decided to become more involved in this forum.
Comments
Essentially? People forget that they're a corporation, and that Apple isn't there for them, Apple is there for Apple. The reason you have a shiny glass and metal iPhone 4 in your hand is not because Apple love you, but because Apple love your money, and giving you a shiny bit of metal and plastic that does things you think are cool and makes pleasing noises is nothing more than a means to extract that money from you.
So, let me get this straight: Apple is one of many, many, many, many, many, many companies that uses DRM in some cases as part of an overall business model, and yet they alone are singled out as being evil? If, by the same rules, I had to make a list of all other companies equally evil, it would very long and essentially meaningless.
On the other hand, I think the Catholic church is evil on a systemic level. Not every Catholic person is evil, and maybe not even any single Catholic priest or cardinal or anyone who works for the church is evil. But however the church became what it is today, utterly self-serving to the detriment of millions of people, I would say it is now evil.
Apple: maybe one day gullible people will lose their music collection. Though, by then, there'll probably live streaming subscription services that cost $10 a month, and they won't care.
The Catholic Church: helping the spread of AIDS through science denial, protecting child rapists, etc.
Seriously, if you are going to use the term evil, at least make it count. Or make it a joke (Burt is Evil).
And yes any company that uses DRM or any method of limiting distribution is evil. Microsoft is evil for other reasons, and most anyone who is "closed" or only allows "closed" sources to be used in conjunction with their products is also evil.
I repeat - People carrying on about apple being evil seem to have no concept of the fact that Apple is not your fucking friend. You do not meet Apple down the bar for drinks, Or get apple to come and feed your dog while you're on holidays. Apple will not help you move, or bring over some beers and watch the Jets game.
Repeat after me - Apple is a corporation. They do whatever they can to increase their profits, because they are not you fucking friend, they are not your buddy, they are a corporation.
IS THIS REALLY THAT FUCKING HARD?
Evil: My dictionary says this: "profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity"
Cracked Article point 1:
Says that updates that stops jailbreaks of iPhones are evil. Has two photos with Nazi imagery, and says such an idea is fascist. What? Jailbreaking is legal, as determined by courts of law. If an update breaks the jailbreak, don't install that update. Or, check this out... don't use an iPhone! Use Android instead. If Apple were truly fascist, or evil, they would be trying to ban other people using Android, or to put laws in place, or to torture people who use Android.
You know, like ACTUAL evil organizations like the Nazi party in 1930's Germany.
Cracked Article point 2:
Apple threatened a reporter with legal action who revealed secrets about their products. They did this by going through the right and legal channels, and were ultimately defeated. So wait, by following the law, they are evil? If they were truly evil, they could kill or harm the reporter in other ways.
You know, like ACTUAL evil organizations, like totalitarian dictatorships who have journalists assassinated to suppress freedom of the press.
Point 3:
"The article didn't outright say that Steve Jobs has been implanting his employees with psycho-receptive "pain chips" designed to inflict unbearable agony upon the disloyal, but it was pretty heavily implied." Hmmm? And then "Apple didn't torture Danyong themselves, but their maddeningly intense security policies set the mood." So some contractors in China, afraid to lose the Apple dollar, do something evil. I can understand this reflecting badly on Apple, but really? This makes them evil?
Hands up anyone who has ever bought anything made by people with bad working conditions. You see how everyone just put their hands up? That's because this is a part of life. There are probably thousands of Chinese workers punished in inhumane ways by their bosses every day. Yes, it is actually harmful, I agree. But Apple is no different to any other western company in this regards.
Point 4:
App store rules. The same app store that has made many, many, many companies and people very rich, and has enriched the lives of millions of people? Oh no! Some apps aren't allowed! Oh no! That means they'll have to use Android instead. You know, exactly what Steve Jobs says people should do, when questioned about the rules for app developers.
Evil? Hardly.
Point 5:
As far as I can tell, it's just some patent application for a non-existent theoretical product or project. Who gives a shit. If that device comes out, and it annoying, don't buy it.
For fuck's sake, get a grip, people. Didn't Jon Stewart say something like this recently: "If you say everything is evil, nothing is." Save the word evil for when something really is evil.
Meanwhile, describe Apple as, at worst, "Slightly annoying for nerds who buy an Apple product and are then disappointed that it doesn't perform exactly as they want it to."
I think the main reason people like to hate on them because they are popular and have fanatical fans. It's like people hating on a pop star or something. They like to hear all the celeb gossip about so-and-so being caught making woopie in a Hollywood pool, because it tarnishes the image of a popular figure. Totally. Put things in perspective.
Ironic. Isn't it.
Sorry to damage your feeling of entitlement, but you choose to play in their playground, you're choosing to play by their rules. You don't like it? Find another playground. Apple is Not beholden to your ideas on how they should run their products, manage their stores, or do their business. You are beholden to their rules and instructions, though, because you decide to use a service they are providing.
It's part of my daily work ritual now. If there is a new one.