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Fanfictions

edited July 2009 in Everything Else
What is it about that word which makes so many of us cringe? Why has a genre, which is as much for expressing ones fandom for a show as an AMV, been associated in our minds with smelly guys writing about their horrid love affairs with their favorite anime characters, and with crazy fangirls with similar tales of debauchery? Granted, there are some diamonds in the rough, as there are with every type of art. And then you have fanfictions like "John Freeman" which are funny in the "Haha-point-and-laugh-it's-so-awful) sort of way.

Is there a problem inherent with the genre? Or does the problem lie in that only the most fanatical (and thus, estranged) of the fanbase would take the time to write in this genre?
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Comments

  • edited July 2009
    Granted, there are some diamonds in the rough, as there are with every type of art.
    I think you'd have to criticize fanfiction more severely for the use of the term "granted" to fit.

    As for the issue at hand, it's a relatively simple one. First of all, there's Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap). Generally, this is after it has been somehow filtered, however. In the case of fanfiction, there is essentially no barrier to entry - not even audio/video knowledge is required. Consequently, fanfiction exhibits a far greater proportion of crap.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • edited July 2009
    Is there a problem inherent with the genre? Or does the problem lie in that only the most fanatical (and thus, estranged) of the fanbase would take the time to write in this genre?
    It's not a problem with the genre. I was reading this essay about called "Fan Fictions: On Sherlock Holmes" by Micheal Chabon, the Kavalier and Clay guy. It could be argued that any work of fiction that uses existing source material and trys to fill in the gaps using situations created by one's own imagining is fan-fiction. Say you riff on the Odyssey, do an alternate retelling. Fanfiction. Say you write a book based on the Count of Monte Cristo, examining the events from another point of view. Fanfiction.

    I think the problem with fanfiction as it is popularly depicted is the fact that, like much amateur fiction, it is for the most part painfully poorly written and often erotic in a bleh kind of way. Most people, when they read or watch a work of fiction see beyond what is shown to them directly and make up their own inner life for the character based on the scraps and pieces (often wonderfully rendered but incomplete none-the-less) that the creator gives to them. My Hamlet is, in personality and appearance, slightly different than your Hamlet. Not only that, what if I want to imagine what Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are up to while all the craziness is going on? The author of a certain theater of the absurd play wrote a fanfic about his imaginings, and we read it in English class. The problem is, not everyone's fantasies about their favorite characters, not everyone's variations on a theme, are high art. Just because you wish that Sasuke and Naruto would get it on, and like to think about it does not mean I want to read about it. Some of these things are better kept in one's mind.

    edit: Really, it comes down to the question that all fiction asks: "What if..." only it uses pre-existing characters or settings. Many of the less talented writers of "fanfiction" use this as a crutch, using the audience's supposed familiarity with the source material to avoid going through the effort of creating deep characterization and a plot. Personally, if I liked a character in, say, Gundam Wing, I would rather distill the traits I favored in their persona (for example, Duo's gallows humor and optimism in the face of death), and then work those traits into an original, and hopefully appropriate and more complex, character in my own work. That said, everyone imagines what happens between the gaps of their favorite stories. Fan fiction is just an extension of that. Even if you don't read it (I tend to avoid it, because, as was said...lotsa crap?) you write it mentally, every time you read. If you don't, I think you're not a very imaginative person.
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • Well, I would be one to argue that fanfiction doesn't scare me. I read it regularly.
    And I know that most of it is probably really bad, but I read it anyways. I enjoy using it as a look into another fan's mind. Even if one would argue that their plots are stupid or clichéd, I have found many with good enough writing skills that I overlook this. Whereas many may not be interested in numerous alternate or "crack" pairings, I find it to be occasionally interesting. I mean, what would happen if those two got together? It can be an intriguing question.

    But I digress. The reason most fans dislike fanfiction, I think, is quite divided. For some, it is a clinging to source material. They are unwilling to accept alterations in plot or characters at all. Similarly, several hate Mary-Sues. I myself tend to dislike fanfics with OC's. I usually read ones that simply create a new situation or alter one between the pre-existing characters.
    In the end, it really all comes down to opinion. I like some of the things about fanfics that others don't. It's not a matter of whether what many of them do is good or bad, it's a matter of whether that interests you or not. Similar to many topics that have been discussed here, it is not always universal that they are considered bad. Sometimes, we can all make claims about how terrible something is, only to realize that what we were just calling terrible is something someone actually likes about the topic. In the end, it all comes down to a simple question: Do what most fanfiction authors do interest you? If not, then you are just not a "fanfiction" kind of person. If yes, then you can find interest in reading, and perhaps writing, fanfiction of your own.
  • edited July 2009
    Wow, you read a lot of fanfiction? And here I thought you were all anti-sex and stuff! (Just kidding. You must admit, though, that the vast majority of anime fanfic is full of dirty scenes and you have to tread lightly to avoid the smut.)

    As far as using Out of Character scenes, sometimes it works to great effect. It lets the author be more creative, for example a comedic doujin that takes characters from a SciFi setting and puts them in, say, Newark. They use the same character traits, but a radically different setting, or perhaps they create a character with the same name and back-story and situation but a different personality. There's a point, however, at which a writer must ask themselves once they go out of character "why am I using this specific person?" If they are so out of character they may as well be a new creation and there is nothing to tie their existence to the original source material, there's really no point to it being a fan fiction, is there?

    OC examples:
    Good Fanfiction: Wicked
    Bad Fanfiction: Sailor Moon Saves the Furries.
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • I think it's pretty simple. There's no reason that fan-fiction can't be good. It's just that when it is good, it stops being called fan-fiction and starts being called fiction. Look at that new book going around, Pride & Prejudice & Zombies. It's fan fiction, but nobody calls it that because it's quality and legit. People only call fanfiction when it's crappy fan-servicy/porny Internet scribblings.
  • A long time ago in the free days before college, I used to write a lot. This summer I decided that I wanted to start writing again, but I was having trouble because I hadn't done creative writing for so long. My biggest problem was trying to tell the story without it sounding like a high-school kid wrote it. I basically felt like I was writing silly Twilight books (which could have been way more awesome if written by a more experienced author, etc. etc.).

    So as a "writing exercise," I have started writing a fanfiction. It is actually a strict re-telling of a side plot from a certain video game (don't want to say anymore about it, kinda embarrassing lol...) Anyway I am using the existing characters and plot, etc. and just putting it in novel format. Its been really fun so far! No sexy stuff... just sticking to the main story. I think its helped me a lot with my writing, I'm starting to get the hang of it again. So basically I am not writing this to show crazy fans that I am another crazy fan... I am just doing this for me. I will probably only let a couple people read it anyway.

    Actually, back in the day fanfiction is what inspired me to write in the first place. I saw these terribly written stories (and a few good ones) and thought "I could do this way better but with my own material..." So I wrote some original stuff. (As well as a very embarrassing HP fanfic that I hope no one ever sees...)
  • A fanfic (Or should I say fan comic) I really like: Pluto by Naoki Urasawa.

    I begrudge no-one the writing of fan-fiction. I have written fanfics on material that ranges from Peter Pan (When I was in first grade) to Gundam Wing. I just never showed it to anyone. It's still sitting there in a notebook.
  • edited July 2009

    OC examples:
    Good Fanfiction: Wicked
    Bad Fanfiction: Sailor Moon Saves the Furries.
    I was actually thinking about how crazy it is that Wicked is actually a fanfiction, but it has done so well. If anyone were to ever write a serious fanfiction to ever be published, this would be the example. However, there is all the legal stuff to worry about. I am just wondering, did Gregory Maguire get away with it because the Wizard of Oz is past a certain age or something? (I guess this goes back to the copyright argument). It would be awesome to see more stuff like this.
    Post edited by Lyddi on
  • I was actually thinking about how crazy it is that Wicked is actually a fanfiction, but it has done so well. If anyone were to ever write a serious fanfiction to ever be published, this would be the example. However, there is all the legal stuff to worry about. I am just wondering, did Gregory Maguire get away with it because the Wizard of Oz is past a certain age or something? (I guess this goes back to the copyright argument). It would be awesome to see more stuff like this.
    If you want to commercially produce fan-fiction you need one of three things.

    1) The work you are fan-fictioning is in the public domain. That's how you get away with riffing on the Odyssey.
    2) You get a license from the copyright holder. This can be Creative Commons, or you can pay money, or whatever. Just talk to them and work out an agreement where they won't sue you. It may involve paying them money.
    3) Your fan-fiction would have to be fair use meaning that it is a parody or some such. If you try the fair use route, and you get noticed, you will probably have to win in court to succeed.
  • Wow, you read a lot of fanfiction? And here I thought you were all anti-sex and stuff! (Just kidding. You must admit, though, that the vast majority of anime fanfic is full of dirty scenes and you have to tread lightly to avoid the smut.)

    As far as using Out of Character scenes, sometimes it works to great effect. It lets the author be more creative, for example a comedic doujin that takes characters from a SciFi setting and put them in, say, Newark. They use the same character traits, but a radically different setting, or perhaps they create a character with the same name and back-story and situation but a different personality. There's a point, however, at which a writer must ask themselves once they go out of character "why am I using this specific person?" If they are so out of character they may as well be a new creation and there is nothing to tie their existence to the original source material, there's really no point to it being a fan fiction is there?

    OC examples:
    Good Fanfiction: Wicked
    Bad Fanfiction: Sailor Moon Saves the Furries.
    Well, websites like Fanfiction.net have ratings for age. I stick in the K-T range, so it's all good. I get good, sophisticated plots without all of the pointless mature stuff that's added for the sake of it. I understand that sex and gore exist in real life, but they don't need to be in a fanfiction unless it's meaningful, and it hardly ever is.
    But what you said is totally true. OOC are some of the best parts about fanfics, because they show you something new that you haven't expected before. But what you said about it being too far from the original character that it might as well just be a fan character...That doesn't happen that often. When I read OOC stuff, it's usually on things that weren't elaborated on in the story. Either that, or they take the personality of a character and just aim it in a different direction.
  • I really think they are two types of fan-fiction. The "fill in the gape" type where the writer tries to wedge a scene to the story line. Normally this is horrible, unnecessary and involves weird sex. This is just bad writing in general. Then, their is the "new direction" type. Wicked and P&P&Z does this. They take inspiration from a preexisting work and run with it. A friend of mine from NU use to write good Harry Potter fanfic that dealt with Harry's parents at Hogwarts. This only pulls slightly from the books but is largely new material.
  • edited July 2009
    The "fill in the gape" type where the writer tries to wedge a scene to the story line. Normally this is horrible, unnecessary and involves weird sex. This is just bad writing in general.
    Not necessarily. When I say, "fill in the gap," I am not referring to just wedging a random H scene in. To use the example of Harry Potter, say there is a mention of a tragic event that happens at the ministry of magic, and it is only a few sentences long and rather vague. The Fanfic writer elaborates on this, and writes out a well executed scene that could be from the books but isn't. This is merely how they imagined this tragedy - they have "run with it," yet kept very faithful to the original. Or think of Dumbledore's Memories. You could write about his bishounen-ish youth in the same style and keeping with the facts that the book presents, but read between the lines to create a more elaborate picture.
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • I still continue to write fanfiction these days but only because it's really hard for me as a writer to not write something everyday (even if it's just a sentence or two). But I will say that ever since I've started writing fanfiction years ago back in high school, I've always did out of character or alternate universe fanfiction just because I like the characters of the series that I write for that much. I haven't written a mountain of stories since I actually plan out every story I write and once I get started with a good idea, there's rare chance it'll stay a short story. For me the general appeal of writing fanfiction if just taking the characters out of their "natural habitat" and plopping them down in different scenarios to see how I can expound upon their personalities. While the vast majority of fanfics do this, I think the key to making this technique work is just the skill of the writer. Both their technical skills and emotional skills.
  • It's funny you should mention this, because I actually write fanfiction. Good ones mind you. Like mine have literary form and a lot of depth to them and a lotta literary devices. I would say mine are better than most as they are intelligent and not just a buncha shipping, fantasy crap. Here is the link to prove it.
  • It's funny you should mention this, because I actually write fanfiction. Good ones mind you. Like mine have literary form and a lot of depth to them and a lotta literary devices. I would say mine are better than most as they are intelligent and not just a buncha shipping, fantasy crap.
    A-tootie-toot-toot on your own little horn there! (Maybe they are decent, but I can't wait until some creative writing teacher takes the wind out of your sails.)
  • edited July 2009
    It's funny you should mention this, because I actually write fanfiction. Good ones mind you. Like mine have literary form and a lot of depth to them and a lotta literary devices. I would say mine are better than most as they are intelligent and not just a buncha shipping, fantasy crap.
    At first glance, the grammar in your forum post gave me pause in believing your claims. Also, "better than most" isn't saying much. ;)
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • This is why I dislike fanfiction.
    That actually made Twilight seem readable.
  • edited July 2009
    Fan-fiction rarely appeals to me. I don't think it is universally bad, I just don't find fanfic necessary on most occasions. Correct me if I am wrong (and I very well may be) but the purpose of fanfics are some combination of:
    a) To rewrite an unsatisfactory ending of a story.
    b) To create different relationships or introduce a sexual element in a relationship that wasn't in the source material.
    c) To take the characters and put them in an entirely new set of circumstances.
    d) To retell the story from a different character's point of view.

    I have little need or use for "a" and "b" as I can supply my own imagination. In regard to "c", I don't understand why the writer doesn't just make it into an original work using similar character archetypes. However, "d" does sometimes appeal to me if it provides a new take on issues and events of the work.
    It is great that these works are inspiring others to be creative and I am glad that people enjoy them; I just don't get into them usually. My one exception is Jane Austen fan-fiction. I must confess that I own the Pamela Aidan series that re-tells Pride and Prejudice from Darcy's point of view. The first and last books were interesting, the second book was terrible.
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • This is why I dislike fanfiction.
    That actually made Twilight seem readable.
    In some way, yes. At least it is honest and blatant about what it really is, not like Twilight which tries to hide under the cover of being a good book.
  • edited July 2009
    I was into fanfiction in late high school. I will never show you them.

    Anyway, my opinion on it is similar to the "Shit guys this is crap!" camp. But looking into my old account I did favorite some really well made ones back then. I still have a low opinion for the use of say FF7 characters in a different setting like say 1980's california. Why not make an original work?

    I also see fanfiction as a way to cut your teeth. More like a springboard to writing and learning skills. Steven Moffat did Doctor Who fanfiction for Decalog for example.

    I'm thinking of taking a few good parts from fanfiction I wrote and making an original story.
    This is why I dislike fanfiction.
    Got damn! I mean...GOT DAMN NO!
    Post edited by Viga on
  • GeoGeo
    edited July 2009
    It's funny you should mention this, because I actually write fanfiction. Good ones mind you. Like mine have literary form and a lot of depth to them and a lotta literary devices. I would say mine are better than most as they are intelligent and not just a buncha shipping, fantasy crap.
    A-tootie-toot-toot on your own little horn there! (Maybe they are decent, but I can't wait until some creative writing teacher takes the wind out of your sails.)
    Now that I look back at it, I will admit that the earliest chapters in that particular story weren't really that great, but I feel that my later ones are a bit better and I have yet to finish that particular saga. Matter of a fact, I'm still finishing it up as your read this post.
    Personally, the thing I like to do is that I like to take certain lines out of the game and weave entire stories out of those little threads because I find that Mother by itself tells an okay story, but there is a great incentive to expand it in many different ways due to how disconnected and how dark the story. It goes without saying, if you know the series' story very well, my stories will make much more sense to anyone who reads it (as is the case with virtually all fanfiction).
    Post edited by Geo on
  • edited July 2009
    I'm sure they are perfectly nice fics, but one doesn't go around saying one's own works are SO AWESOME! because it makes people want to bop one on the head. As an artist, take this into consideration.
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • I'm sure they are perfectly nice fics, but one doesn't go around saying one's own works are SO AWESOME! because it makes people want to bop one on the head. As an artist, take this into consideration.
    I never said "It's the greatest fanfiction ever OH MY GOD!!!" like the Sci-Fi Channel described anime back in the day, I just said that I think it's better than most. If I came off as arrogant, then I apologize as I should have just presented it more humbly and not as a braggart.
  • Or think of Dumbledore's Memories. You could write about his bishounen-ish youth in the same style and keeping with the facts that the book presents, but read between the lines to create a more elaborate picture.
    sigh.
    I never read fanfics, nor do I like harry Potter, but that sentence made me realize how much I want to read a realistic Hugo-esque Harry Potter, about a school filled with young catholics trying to comprehend magic, repressed homosexuals, and a bunch of scared to death kids capable of shotting fire balls.
  • edited July 2009
    The "fill in the gape" type where the writer tries to wedge a scene to the story line. Normally this is horrible, unnecessary and involves weird sex. This is just bad writing in general.
    Not necessarily. When I say, "fill in the gap," I am not referring to just wedging a random H scene in. To use the example of Harry Potter, say there is a mention of a tragic event that happens at the ministry of magic, and it is only a few sentences long and rather vague. The Fanfic writer elaborates on this, and writes out a well executed scene that could be from the books but isn't. This is merely how they imagined this tragedy - they have "run with it," yet kept very faithful to the original. Or think of Dumbledore's Memories. You could write about his bishounen-ish youth in the same style and keeping with the facts that the book presents, but read between the lines to create a more elaborate picture.
    I've done the whole "fill in the gap" thing myself and it was quite fun. When I was (dammit) 13-ish, I was a big fan of Love Hina (Double dammit), and there was a point in the manga where Keitaro was interning here in the states and out of the manga for a while. So, I wrote a fanfiction about what Keitaro's stay here was like. I cringe every time I go back and read it because the writing was so cliched and horrible.
    Maybe fanfics can serve as a sort of springboard into original fiction writing. You start off writing about characters you're familiar with, but then you slowly work your way into writing about original characters. That's how it worked for me. *shrug*
    This is why I dislike fanfiction.
    Kinda reminds me of a fanfic my sister wrote...
    Post edited by Victor Frost on
  • This is why I dislike fanfiction.
    Typical ff.net story. The latest trend seems to be truth or dare interactive stories.
  • This is why I dislike fanfiction.
    This is why I found forums dedicated to fanfiction that act as a filter for me.

    For me at least, fanfiction is a way to fill a gap left by a bad ending or poorly handled series, or to give me more of a good series that has finished. For example; I am really big into Harry Potter fanfiction because I think that the last two books of the series were shit, and because I wanted to read more about the titular character.

    The problem with fanfiction isn't so much the crap, which is to be expected, but the stuff that can no longer be considered fanfiction. For example; this is a fairly good work of Harry Potter fanfiction, because it uses the setting, characters, and plot of the original work in an interesting way while still remaining, relatively, faithful to it. This, on the other hand, simply takes the magic system created by JK Rowling and some of the magical beasts "created" by her, and then puts them into such a drastically altered universe that is no longer recognizable to readers of the original series. This could be considered a work of fiction if the author had created original names and proper nouns instead of taking them from the Harry Potter series, and why he didn't is beyond me.
  • The second one is amazing...
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