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How big a problem is fake medicine?

edited July 2009 in Everything Else
It's a $34 Billlion problem. Imagine if that money went to researching real medicine instead. Heck, let's say you used it for $1 million dollar cancer treatments. You could treat 34,000 cancer sufferers. That's not even counting how many bed nets it could buy to help stop Malaria or some such.

Apparently most fake medicine is used because of back pain. People go get chiropractic, acupuncture, or some other hooey because there aren't any real medicine alternatives besides back surgery or pain medication. I think people just need to realize that hey, your body will hurt when you are old. Since we are upright, bipedal animals, the back is a problem area. There's really not much you can do. At the very least, save your money.
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Comments

  • Well, it may not be medicine, but chiropractic does actually help relieve some back pain. My mother had a lot of back pain while she was pregnant with my little brother. After she gave birth, the back pain still persisted. Then she visited a chiropractor for about an hour and a half and when he was done the back pain was gone. Hasn't had a problem since.
  • I thought that chiropractic was a normal medical practice for the majority of my life. Never having done it myself nor really taking an interest in it, I assumed it was simply for realigning joints or breaking up calcium deposits. Of course it didn't help that it's covered by most medical insurers and I don't ever recall hearing anyone being remotely skeptical about its legitimacy while growing up. So it was a bit of a shock to eventually hear someone mention it while on the topic of quack medicine. That prompted me to do some actual research... CRAZY people are everywhere, man! The chiropractic community is incredibly interesting with different ideological forces at work and I'd definitely recommend browsing through their message boards.

    It's sad that I could probably make a fortune sending homeopathic emails to people.
  • edited July 2009
    I should probably clarify before I piss too many people off. I don't doubt anyone's chiropractic success stories, except for when things are attributed to the spiritual or subluxational(sp?) aspects of it. A great many aches and pains are relieved through stretching, massage, time, etc... which a chiropractic practitioner can certainly facilitate. This is one of the big divides in the chiropractic world with some practitioners actively trying to reinvent the idea as more akin to message therapy.
    Post edited by BrutishSaucer on
  • Well, it may not be medicine, but chiropractic does actually help relieve some back pain.
    Chiropractic is an odd brand of quackery. As a concept it is complete bunk, of course. If you are a Chiropractor who abides by the tenets of actual Chiropractic then you are a quack, but there is a significant community of Chiropractors who are actually useful. You just have to make sure that you look into whichever practitioner you're considering and figure out if their brand of Chiropractic is magical healing or science-based physical therapy with a fancy name.
  • edited July 2009
    Chiropractors kill. Just remember that the next time you go see someone who purposely manipulates your neck and spine.
    Laurie Mathiason was a 20-year-old Canadian waitress who visited a chiropractor 21 times between 1997 and 1998 to relieve her low-back pain. On her penultimate visit she complained of stiffness in her neck. That evening she began dropping plates at the restaurant, so she returned to the chiropractor. As the chiropractor manipulated her neck, Mathiason began to cry, her eyes started to roll, she foamed at the mouth and her body began to convulse. She was rushed to hospital, slipped into a coma and died three days later. At the inquest, the coroner declared: “Laurie died of a ruptured vertebral artery, which occurred in association with a chiropractic manipulation of the neck.”
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • Tangentially related: Simon Singh is a great author. I've read some of his stuff.
  • RymRym
    edited July 2009
    This is one of the big divides in the chiropractic world with some practitioners actively trying to reinvent the idea as more akin to message therapy.
    As long as they continue to call it Chiropractic in any capacity, it's rooted in bullshit and con artistry and has no place in medicine. Massage is already well understood and applied: associating it with mysticism and pseudoscience gains us nothing.
    Well, it may not be medicine, but chiropractic does actually help relieve some back pain. My mother had a lot of back pain while she was pregnant with my little brother. After she gave birth, the back pain still persisted. Then she visited a chiropractor for about an hour and a half and when he was done the back pain was gone. Hasn't had a problem since.
    Back pain goes away at the same statistical rate whether people visit chiropractors or not. The only efficacy that's ever actually been demonstrated is wholly placebo.
    but there is a significant community of Chiropractors who are actually useful. You just have to make sure that you look into whichever practitioner you're considering and figure out if their brand of Chiropractic is magical healing or science-based physical therapy with a fancy name.
    You're terribly misinformed.

    I'm surprised that there are still people in this forum of all places who don't understand that ALL chiropractic is bunk. There are no exceptions.
    Post edited by Rym on
  • If someone calls themselves a chiropractor, but doesn't actually perform or practice chiropractic, then that is still unacceptable. They're lying to their customers who don't know better, and they're lying to customers who do know better.

    If someone merely performs perfectly safe and legitimate massages, which feel good even if they do not have any medical benefits, they should call themselves a masseuse, not a chiropractor. Also, even if you find a so-called good chiropractor who doesn't do any of the bullshit, why give them your money? Instead, you can go find someone even better called a physical therapist. You know, these are the same people who help people to regain control of their bodies after bad orthopedic surgeries and such. Also, if your back pain is very severe and recurring, maybe you do actually need back surgery. You should go and see a real back doctor at least once just to make sure your back pain is just normal pain that you shouldn't worry about.
  • edited July 2009
    I think people just need to realize that hey, your body will hurt when you are old.
    That's easy to say, but do you hurt right now? I'm not defending Chiro or Accupuncture, but I know that when people have pain that can't be relieved, they will try things that are not rational because it's hard to be rational when you're in pain.

    Your point is valid, fair, and I agree with it up to the point where you say, "Just deal with the pain. You will hurt when you are old." That really begs the question, "What pain have you just "dealt with", tough guy? How much pain have you endured instead of seeking out absolutely anything that promised to ease that pain?"

    If you can truthfully say that you have withstood chronic pain and not availed yourself of quackery because you are simply that fucking awesome, then that's outstanding. Personally, I haven't seen that much evidence that you respond to pain as stoically as you seem to want people to believe and I think that if you experienced the pain that I know some of my clients have experienced, you would be first in line for whatever wacky quackery held a promise of relief. If you ever experience real back pain, I don't think you'll be so quick to say, "Well, I'm old, so I guess I just have to live with the pain." If you ever experience the type of unrelievable pain that comes from something like soft tissue damage resulting from an accident, Crohn's disease, or Cancer (no respecters of age - you can get them at any time and you can't use that tired "Oh, I'm so young and awesome" argument that you like to hide behind. Speaking of that, you're not so young anymore, and you're getting older every day.), I'd love to hear you say, "Well, I just have to live with it."

    The problem is not that people turn to quackery when they can't get relief from real medicine. That's totally understandable because people will try anything to get relief from pain. The problem lies with the charlatans offering relief when there is none. The answer shouldn't be "deal with the pain", but rather "if you try to practice quackery, we will fine you and possibly put you in jail."
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • Scott is a total wuss when it comes to pain and can't even do a push-up.

    My back hurts mildly from sitting and drawing in front of a computer all day. I find that a combination of massage, Tiger Balm (Feels like Icy-Hot), and good posture makes it better.
  • Tiger Balm (Feels like Icy-Hot)
    Tiger balm?
  • edited July 2009
    Also, if your back pain is very severe and recurring, maybe you do actually need back surgery. You should go and see a real back doctor at least once just to make sure your back pain is just normal pain that you shouldn't worry about.
    You should absolutely see a real back doctor. However, back surgery does not always relieve chronic pain. In some instances, it makes it worse. Back sugeries are usually suggested only as a last resort by doctors because of the risks involved and the liklihood that the pain may not only remain, but worsen. Finally, have you ever tried to pay for a back surgery? You can have the best insurance in the world and still geet a hefty, hefty bill while some Chiros cost $10.00 a visit. Once again though, I'm not defending Chiros, I'm just saying that THEY are the problem, not the people who go to them for relief.

    And, once again, I question the use of the phrase "normal pain you shouldn't worry about". What level of pain do you define as "normal"?
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • edited July 2009
    My mom made me go to the chiro-quacker (as my dad calls it) when I was in high school. They took an upright x-ray of my back to see how my spine was. I have bad posture, like most kids trying to be cool, so I wasn't standing up straight, didn't have my head all the way up, etc. Anyway, they see the x-ray and are like "Omg your spine is sooooo curved, you need treatment!" Even though I tried to tell my mom it was obvious that I just wasn't standing up straight, she made me get treated anyway. I went for a couple of years, getting my back popped every week and having these strange painful contraptions strapped to my head... it was not fun. Upon graduation I managed to escape.

    My mom has not, however, and still goes, wasting tons of money. She says it makes her back feel better, but it always hurts again and she always goes back. They convinced her that getting her back popped every week is the superior alternative to fixing a slipped disk. They also tell her that doing this will prevent sickness, therefore needing no more medicine.

    They also played Enya in the overhead speakers, looping the same cd over and over...
    Post edited by Lyddi on
  • When I hear "fake medicine", the first things that come to mind are all of the weird herbs and dried fish parts that they sell on every other corner where I live. The people around here reeeeally seem to waste their money on "health".
  • Chinese Medicine. Now with more tiger penis!
  • Chinese Medicine. Now with more tiger penis!
    lollollol.........BARGLEBARGLE!!!!
  • Tiger Balm (Feels like Icy-Hot)
    I found that Tiger Balm works a lot better on me than Icy-Hot, specially after a whiplash incident while playing soccer last week. Now I am at my 100% :D
  • My favorite one is that apple seeds can cure cancer..... while they actually can cause arsenic poisoning in large doses :-p (well I guess that does cure the cancer.....)
  • edited July 2009
    My favorite one is that apple seeds can cure cancer..... while they actually can cause arsenic poisoning in large doses :-p (well I guess that does cure the cancer.....)
    No, apple seeds do not contain arsenic. They do, however, contain cyanide.

    On the topic of apples and crackpot medicine, read this, and have a glance at the author's site.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • edited July 2009
    I'm surprised that there are still people in this forum of all places who don't understand that ALL chiropractic is bunk. There are no exceptions.
    There are number of people who call themselves Chiropractors who do not actually practice Chiropractic. It's a similar situation to the undiluted, effective anti-depressant that calls itself Homeopathy to draw in the alternative medicine hippies. The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe has received several agitated e-mails on the subject from "Skeptical Chiropractors" who are trying to change the practice. They're certainly not going about it the right way, and I wouldn't personally support anyone who calls himself a Chiropractor, but what I said stands.
    They also played Enya in the overhead speakers, looping the same cd over and over...
    Chiropractic is bad, but that is simply evil.
    Post edited by Walker on
  • edited July 2009
    It's a similar situation to the undiluted, effective anti-depressant that calls itself Homeopathy
    Saint John's Wort? That's herbal medicine. Some herbs have been shown to have an effect on various conditions (such as the fact that your real doctor will tell you to drink lots of cranberry juice or take cranberry tabs if you have a bladder infection, in addition to an antibiotic) but they are not studied and regulated the same way as medicine. The more effective ones (like willow bark) have had their effective chemicals isolated and made into drugs. I have less of a problem with people using traditional herbal treatments than with stuff like Head On or Airborne, or actual homeopathy. Peppermint leaves and ginger make you feel less nauseous if your tummy is mildly ooky, but if I was actually sick I would go to a doctor.
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • Saint John's Wort?
    No, it's a prescription drug that labels itself as Homeopathy (Zoloft, maybe? This is a really bad time to forget the name of it), but actually contains undiluted antidepressants.
  • As long as they continue to call it Chiropractic in any capacity, it's rooted in bullshit and con artistry and has no place in medicine. Massage is already well understood and applied: associating it with mysticism and pseudoscience gains us nothing.
    I don't know. To me, a name is just a name. They often evolve along with the idea they were originally attached to and I don't think it should necessarily be tied in any way back to that original concept. A Republican or Democrat is not the same as it once was. Religions can be quite different. A philosopher of old was much more tied into the natural sciences. Uri Geller was once ridiculed as a fake, but in hindsight we realize that he really was magical.

    On the whole I don't find any segment of the chiropractic community to be all that physically beneficial, but I can accept that it is undergoing some changes. I suppose I could live with "bone masseuse" though... go get my bone massaged.. oh yeah...

    As for the ethics, I know that a lot of chiropractors honestly believe in their practice, so I can't say that they are acting unethically, just ignorantly. I have no data or even anecdotal evidence to back up this idea, but I think it would be interesting to see the statistics on harm caused to patients seeking quack medicine vs legitimate medicine. Real doctors screw up all the time and their screw ups can be life threatening, even if the original ailment was not. It's obviously not a good situation for a patient who requires real medicine to forgo that in favor of psychic surgery, but in cases where either option will produce similar results (of which I suspect there are a great many), what does it matter who the patient wastes their money on? If they feel better in the end, placebo or not, that's fine with me. Of course, as long as it doesn't affect me, it's fine with me if they die too. Archivers of the future: I would like for you to put an emoticon in this spot of a winking smiley face but with a twinge of nervous uncertainty on the left side. I'm sure your expanded unicode standard will have the necessary components for this request.
  • Uri Geller was once ridiculed as a fake, but in hindsight we realize that he really was magical.
    I like you. You make me laugh. Post moar plz.
  • My back hurts mildly from sitting and drawing in front of a computer all day.
    Do you have a good chair? When I started drawing comics seriously,I was spending so much time in my crappy chair that my back started hurting so badly I could hardly sleep. Then I got a new chair, and the pain went away completely within a week. If you're drawing with a wacom, it's also important to find a really good position and posture with which to use it. I still let my posture slip once in a while, and if I don't catch it quickly, I start getting a nerve pinch in my back.
  • Elevating your feet works wonders for back pain. If I am online, I have my feet up on the desk. No exceptions.
  • Yes, I'm not surprised that back pain is a motivator, for all those reasons. Seriously, though, just practice good posture and perhaps do a little Yoga and you'll gradually find improvement. Pracicing better posture and exercising has improved my artist-inspired back pain significanly.

    @Funfetus
    Still, I could use a new chair. How much does that one go for, and can I adjust the height of the different back sections? I'm very short.

    Back on topic:
    But I have a feeling almost all the other cases have to do with religion or pride.
    I have two close family members that bought into this crap...and oddly enough it was because of pride.
    One went to see some crap herbal specialist for her chronic 'knee' problems. If she had gone to a doctor years earlier, she would have known that it was a hip problem causing pain in her knee.
    The other person is depressed and an alcoholic, and he won't go do a doctor for it because he's too proud to have anything on his medical record....doesn't want to have to face that there's something real wrong. So he went to a HYPNOTIST. I was shocked, because he had always been logical and discerning as far as science went. He never hesitated to bring any of his kids to the doctor. But when his pride was on the line, he went with BS instead.
  • Do you have a good chair? When I started drawing comics seriously,I was spending so much time in my crappy chair that my back started hurting so badly I could hardly sleep. Then I got anew chair, and the pain went away completely within a week. If you're drawing with a wacom, it's also important to find a really good position and posture with which to use it. I still let my posture slip once in a while, and if I don't catch it quickly, I start getting a nerve pinch in my back.
    No, my chair sucks. And my posture sucks. And it's bad. I need a better chair, but I also need to not hunch over like an old lady when I am drawing.
  • My favorite one is that apple seeds can cure cancer..... while they actually can cause arsenic poisoning in large doses :-p (well I guess that does cure the cancer.....)
    No, apple seeds do not contain arsenic. They do, however, contain cyanide.

    On the topic of apples and crackpot medicine, readthis, and have a glance at the author'ssite.
    Sorry I got my "don't injest chemicals" messed up ^_^ at least I didn't say Take all the cyanide you want ^_^
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