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The Line

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  • How many times have you heard stories of guys assuming that a girl saying "no" was just her super-special-secret way of trying to entice him further between her legs?
    Doesn't mean that all of them are untrue. In fact, I remember my sister showing me an article in a Women's magazine that basically said "Do this, and you'll get the guy every time!" - I was even more disgusted than she was, because christ, it's already hard enough for a bloke as it is.
    See, this is why I really advocate the need to be comfortable with yourself above all else. I've never understood people who desperately need to be in a relationship to the point where they'll be with someone they don't really like. If you don't like the person you're with, and you can't resolve the issues, end it! Being alone is better than being with someone you don't like. I'd rather be alone that trying to deal with someone else's mind-game bullshit.
  • I just vomited in my mouth a bit.
    I agree, though I got my point across clumsily previously. This sort of thing is stupid and damaging irrelevant of gender.
    I'd rather be alone that trying to deal with someone else's mind-game bullshit.
    Seconded, Thirded, fourthed, and fucking well hundredthed.
  • I'd rather be alone that trying to deal with someone else's mind-game bullshit.
    I once learned that the hard way. A lesson worth learning though.
  • edited August 2009
    How many times have you heard stories of guys assuming that a girl saying "no" was just her super-special-secret way of trying to entice him further between her legs?
    Doesn't mean that all of them are untrue. In fact, I remember my sister showing me an article in a Women's magazine that basically said "Do this, and you'll get the guy every time!" - I was even more disgusted than she was, because on top of the disgust I felt with the content of the article, christ, it's already hard enough for a bloke as it is without stupid shit like this being encouraged.

    Edit - Clarified my point.
    That's beyond idiotic. I can't believe someone writing advice to women would even consider advocating that behavior.

    And just because "No" might -not always- mean "NO" depending on who you're talking to and how they may or may not be trying to manipulate you, it doesn't make that assumption okay. Assuming that "No" means anything other than "No" will always be the stupid thing to do. At the very least, you'd be encouraging that dysfunctional form of communication.
    Post edited by loltsundere on
  • Regardless of trouble, would you really want to involve yourself with someone that would cheat and are you okay with being the kind of person that facilitates that behavior (even if the other person is in a bad relationship)?
    It's only cheating if they're breaking the rules.
    And just because "No" might -not always- mean "NO" depending on who you're talking to and how they may or may not be trying to manipulate you, it doesn't make that assumption okay. Assuming that "No" means anything other than "No" will always be the stupid thing to do. At the very least, you'd be encouraging that dysfunctional form of communication.
    Agreed. I only brought up "no" meaning "yes" as a joke - it's just silly.
  • edited August 2009
    Regardless of trouble, would you really want to involve yourself with someone that would cheat and are you okay with being the kind of person that facilitates that behavior (even if the other person is in a bad relationship)?
    It's only cheating if they're breaking the rules.
    Obviously. I thought that went without saying, but apparently...
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • edited August 2009
    Regardless of trouble, would you really want to involve yourself with someone that would cheat and are you okay with being the kind of person that facilitates that behavior (even if the other person is in a bad relationship)?
    It's only cheating if they're breaking the rules.
    Obviously. I thought that went without saying, but apparently...
    A lot of people apply their own "rules" to a relationship without ever consulting the other person. It's derived from the same culture that talks about the "rules" of dating (as in, you should return a phone call after X days, etc). These people are just really really really bad at communicating what they want, so they invent these rules, pretend that they apply to everyone, act as though they do, and make life difficult for anyone they try to date. So, a lot of these people will justify their behavior through some inane "rules" and blame the other person for not knowing the rules that were never communicated to them. That's how people can justify cheating to themselves. I find it repugnant, but that's what many people do.

    This is why you need to communicate your needs clearly and directly, and make sure that everyone understands the rules of the relationship before proceeding. Assume nothing.

    EDIT: Have I mentioned that I really dislike 95% of humanity? I don't know if that's come through or not.
    Post edited by TheWhaleShark on
  • RymRym
    edited August 2009
    A lot of people apply their own "rules" to a relationship without ever consulting the other person. It's derived from the same culture that talks about the "rules" of dating (as in, you should return a phone call after X days, etc). These people are just really really really bad at communicating what they want, so they invent these rules, pretend that they apply to everyone, act as though they do, and make life difficult for anyone they try to date.
    I wrote a paper on this, and we spent several weeks studying the psychology behind the phenomenon in my Small Group Theory class.

    Generally, people are petty, and cannot really conceive that other people might not follow the made-up world order they create in their heads. If you ever want to see an example of this, just stand facing the wrong way in an elevator. Don't stare at anyone, or be rude or anything: just stand facing a slightly different direction. Have someone else there to surreptitiously observe their body language. Most of the people will be visibly uncomfortable. All because a stranger is facing 30 degrees to the right of where they, in their minds, have decided he should face.
    Post edited by Rym on
  • A lot of people apply their own "rules" to a relationship without ever consulting the other person. It's derived from the same culture that talks about the "rules" of dating (as in, you should return a phone call after X days, etc). These people are just really really really bad at communicating what they want, so they invent these rules, pretend that they apply to everyone, act as though they do, and make life difficult for anyone they try to date.
    I wrote a paper on this, and we spent several weeks studying the psychology behind the phenomenon in my Small Group Theory class.

    Generally, people are petty, and cannot really conceive that other people might not follow the made-up world order they create in their heads. If you ever want to see an example of this, just stand facing the wrong way in an elevator. Don't stare at anyone, or be rude or anything: just stand facing a slightly different direction. Have someone else there to surreptitiously observe their body language. Most of the people will be visibly uncomfortable. All because a stranger is facing 30 degrees to the right of where they, in their minds, have decided he should face.
    It's so much fun doing that! It makes me wonder what other sort of very simple and mindless things I can do that will mess with people psychologically.
  • Regardless of trouble, would you really want to involve yourself with someone that would cheat and are you okay with being the kind of person that facilitates that behavior (even if the other person is in a bad relationship)?
    It's only cheating if they're breaking the rules.
    Obviously. I thought that went without saying, but apparently...
    A lot of people apply their own "rules" to a relationship without ever consulting the other person. It's derived from the same culture that talks about the "rules" of dating (as in, you should return a phone call after X days, etc). These people are just really really really bad at communicating what they want, so they invent these rules, pretend that they apply to everyone, act as though they do, and make life difficult for anyone they try to date. So, a lot of these people will justify their behavior through some inane "rules" and blame the other person for not knowing the rules that were never communicated to them. That's how people can justify cheating to themselves. I find it repugnant, but that's what many people do.

    This is why you need to communicate your needs clearly and directly, and make sure that everyone understands the rules of the relationship before proceeding. Assume nothing.
    This is what I was getting at - you have to find out the rules they're working under, and on whose authority, before you can judge someone else's actions.
  • ...and everyone's rules are different. It's crazy. This is why I wrote an outline with my own rules. Otherwise, when I need to explain them I invariably end up forgetting something important. Also, the person I am explaining them to can't say, "Well, you never said anything about X!" if it is clearly there on the outline.
  • Also, the person I am explaining them to can't say, "Well, you never said anything about X!" if it is clearly there on the outline.
    Well, they can say it; they're just wrong, and you evidence to back it up. :P
  • Serious dating should involve mediated negotiation followed by a written contract...
  • Well, how would you communicate to someone that you're not interested in flirting with them yourself? Would you just communicate outright and plainly, or try to send signals?
  • Well, how would you communicate to someone that you're not interested in flirting with them yourself? Would you just communicate outright and plainly, or try to send signals?
    I send signals first, and if they don't get it, I tell them directly.
  • edited August 2009
    Well, how would you communicate to someone that you're not interested in flirting with them yourself? Would you just communicate outright and plainly, or try to send signals?
    I send signals first, and if they don't get it, I tell them directly.
    "Sorry, I have to go home and rewind my DVDs."

    For reals though...signals first, but I have a very short fuse. They don't get very long before I tell them directly.
    Post edited by Nuri on
  • Signaling only works on socially aware people. Case in point: fanboys at cons who can't tell that you're uninterested in anything they're saying, desperately looking over their shoulder for an excuse to leave, and have not once made eye contact with them.

    My solution more and more has been to simply not allow socially unaware people into my social circle.

  • My solution more and more has been to simply not allow socially unaware people into my social circle.
    Wait then how do you explain...... ^_^

  • My solution more and more has been to simply not allow socially unaware people into my social circle.
    Wait then how do you explain...... ^_^
    We keep you around for the sex. And the mansweater. And easy access to your mom. Well, easier access, anyhow.
  • Signaling only works on socially aware people
    Or people who think that unwanted determination is an appealing trait. Case in point - A few weeks ago, I was out at a club with a mate of mine, and while the club is one of the more Gay-friendly clubs in town, it's more renowned as a dance club, and this gay bloke starts taking an interest in me. I tell him, firmly, no thanks, not interested, and refused every drink he tried to buy me, Tried to walk away, but he followed, and he just gets more determined, I keep telling him, he ignores it - And then, he laid hands on me.

    I warned him once, I warned him twice, and both times he took his hands off me for about thirty seconds before he was back at it. The third time, I grabbed him, put him in a painful wrist lock, and told him, not shouting, not making a fuss, "I told you I wasn't interested, and I told you to keep your hands off me. If you touch me again, and I'll break your fucking arm. Do you understand?" And he nodded, so I let him go to to ostensibly leave, but no, he just kept hitting on me.

    It finally stopped when he reached out to lay hands on me again, and I stopped him with a glare and said "Are you really stupid enough to think I was just kidding or playing hard to get?" and with that, he finally left me alone.

    Seriously, some people cannot be told. you just about need to literally beat it into their heads. Little head overwhelms the big head, and they just won't take no for an answer, as if things are going to go "Hey, fancy to knock boots?" "No" "What if I ask twice?" "Oh, alright then!"
  • Some people just don't get it until you hurt them physically. Thankfully, I have only had to do that to two people. Unfortunately, I had to do that to two people.

    Both were smart enough to stop before I broke a bone, but one came really fucking close. Apparently I am not intimidating enough until I am physically engaged. Curse my small, skinny stature.
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