Welcome to competitive Street Fighter play, Scott. How does it feel?
Bad, I still get my ass kicked all around the block. I think the worst beating I got was from a guy playing Ken. He got me in the corner with the typical combo most Ryu/Ken people get me with. The thing is, he knew some magic to extend the combo and juggled me up into a mid-are EX hurricane kick. That kick sent me flying out of the corner, but he was on me the instant I stood up, and then it was over. I can't even begin to imagine what I would have to do to beat such an opponent.
Aww man, I gotta tell you Funfetus. I was real worried you would just walk all over me. Especially when you picked Ryu. GG's.
Hah, I was pretty sure you were gonna walk all over me, and then you did. I'll just try to convince myself that it's because I almost never fight Hondas or Blankas. But yeah, thanks man, we'll do it again.
Aww man, I gotta tell you Funfetus. I was real worried you would just walk all over me. Especially when you picked Ryu. GG's.
Hah, I was pretty sure you were gonna walk all over me, and then you did. I'll just try to convince myself that it's because I almost never fight Hondas or Blankas. But yeah, thanks man, we'll do it again.
You should have had the Blanka match I just got real lucky twice. With Ryu vs. Honda, if you have ultra try to throw weak Dragon Punches whenever Honda jumps forward and you think hes going to attack. If you trade (which will probably happen) Honda will get thrown up in juggle state and you get a free Ultra. It's the most annoying shit in the game and is probably the main reason Sagat/Ryu ruin Honda's life. Besides that yea, no one uses Honda so no one is really used to the match up. Honda isn't that good so it helps.
Thanks for the tips. I need to figure out what Honda's doing with that sumo slam crossup or whatever it is -- it hits me every time. Also, I just really need to work on my execution, because I still throw out DPs when I want to fireball, and blow ultras all the time and whatnot. I also can hardly ever juggle into an ultra.
I just really need to work on my execution, because I still throw out DPs when I want to fireball, and blow ultras all the time and whatnot.
I also have this problem. There are times I know to bring out the ultra, but it doesn't happen. Other times, it does happen, but that's usually a time when I want to do the ultra, but probably shouldn't have.
I've actually gotten in the habit of just letting loose the ultra if the opponent has almost no health left. Even if they block, it usually does enough damage for me to win.
Also, sometimes I whip out a move that is good, but unintended.
I need to figure out what Honda's doing with that sumo slam crossup or whatever it is -- it hits me every time.
It takes a little experience and reaction time to deal with that. Unless your really good with spacing it's hard to tell from where Honda is on the screen what side of you he will land on. Usually what I do is watch my character. If he starts walking (meaning Honda crossed me) I immediately pull back the other direction.
I've actually gotten in the habit of just letting loose the ultra if the opponent has almost no health left. Even if they block, it usually does enough damage for me to win.
You've gotta be careful, because if you don't set up your ultra, usually your opponent can just jump over it and punish you.
Usually what I do is watch my character. If he starts walking (meaning Honda crossed me) I immediately pull back the other direction.
There are times I know to bring out the ultra, but it doesn't happen. Other times, it does happen, but that's usually a time when I want to do the ultra, but probably shouldn't have.
Muscle memory. Sometimes if I have 20 minutes to waste just before I'm going out for the night I will turn on Street Fighter and I-tunes, listen to a podcast, and practice one combo. Do this a few times a month for combo's and it will help greatly. The more you do the motion the more consistent you will become.
I've actually gotten in the habit of just letting loose the ultra if the opponent has almost no health left. Even if they block, it usually does enough damage for me to win.
Good habit. Point blank it is difficult to avoid Bison's Ultra if it's going to chip you to death.
Edit* Fetus is right but 90% of people that are not using Rose/Ryu (projectile Ultra) will not have the reaction time to catch you. What in theory can happen and what does happen are two very different things.
Edit* Fetus is right but 90% of people that are not using Rose/Ryu (projectile Ultra) will not have the reaction time to catch you. What in theory can happen and what does happen are two very different things.
You know, you're totally right about that. I just so seldom use someone other than Ryu that I never noticed. But yeah, I guess with most characters, the worst thing that happens most of the time is you waste your ultra.
Edit* Fetus is right but 90% of people that are not using Rose/Ryu (projectile Ultra) will not have the reaction time to catch you. What in theory can happen and what does happen are two very different things.
You know, you're totally right about that. I just so seldom use someone other than Ryu that I never noticed. But yeah, I guess with most characters, the worst thing that happens most of the time is you waste your ultra.
Case in point. Every sumo slam I do Ryu can block, jab ->shoryuken. Non Ex Sumo Slam is actually very unsafe against any character in the game that has a quick jab. But, it very rarely gets punished because I don't often face pro's.
Case in point. Every sumo slam I do Ryu can block, jab ->shoryuken. Non Ex Sumo Slam is actually very unsafe against any character in the game that has a quick jab. But, it very rarely gets punished because I don't often face pro's.
This is very true. I know that you can counter lots of moves like Honda headbutt, Blonka Ball, etc. with a precisely timed jab. The reality is that I can do it in training, but hardly ever in a real fight. I have a muscle memory that makes me block incoming attacks. It takes balls of steel to throw out a tiny punch against a big powerful attack. I think that's kind of neat.
I made a crappy video of the "combo" I discussed before. The video is in slow motion because Fraps makes the computer slow. Make note of how much health they have at the start and at the end. As you can see, the only thing that makes this not a combo, technically speaking, is that Ryu can maybe do something when he's waking up and you are charging the focus attack. Depending on which character you are fighting they may or may not be able to escape. In most situations, they won't be able to do anything. If they block, the focus goes through. If they hit your armor you let go of the focus. In the video the focus is level 3, but you only need it to be level 2 to get the crumple to setup for the ultra.
Other things to note - It would probably be better to do the scissor cancel into super instead of ultra, but you can't do this with super because canceling the psycho crusher into the focus costs two super bars. Also, you don't need to do a psycho crusher, this will work with a scissor or crusher of any strength. You can also combo into it any way you want. I chose two fierce punches because they do a lot of damage, and it's easy to cancel out of the standing fierce.
Obviously pulling off this entire sequence in a real fight is unlikely. The thing is that by practicing it in different configurations I have built skill in many fundamentals. Just the focus attack, crumple, ultra component is good to practice and use on its own. Just the cancel into special move is good to practice. This just puts the whole show together at once.
I made a crappy video of the "combo" I discussed before. The video is in slow motion because Fraps makes the computer slow. Make note of how much health they have at the start and at the end.
What FPS did you set FRAPS to record at? Maybe your 8800gt isn't cutting it anymore... ~_^
I thought the slowness in fraps was caused by the CPU trying to encode the video at the same time. You could try recording it in a less processor intensive mode and then handbrake it.
Do the same combo but record Ryu spamming crouching jab. From the way the video looks your level 3 focus is out before Ryu recovers so he shouldn't have time to spam any move that's not a DP to escape, but it would be useful to know for sure. Keep in mind different characters have different recovery times from knock down. I would suspect that boxer would be able to spam jab out of this.
Edit* Also do the combo with Ryu recorded doing neutral jump to see if he can escape just by holding up. I think you'll catch his toes.
I have been switching back and forth between playing arcade mode and online. I know I need to play online to learn to fight real humans, but I also assume that the really good players can beat the computer on hardest setting with all perfects and ultra finishes and whatnot. Thus, playing against the computer I think is a good test of how far I've come.
I usually play on medium or medium-hard. I can beat the game on either of these difficulty levels, but there are a few characters that I always have a tough time against like Rufus, El Fuerte, Zangief, etc.
I got curious and just now I decided to try playing Arcade on Hardest setting. I assumed the computer would do those crazy unavoidable combos of death, and I wouldn't beat a single opponent.
Much to my surprise, this was not the case at all. I lose many rounds, and had many close matches. However, I did not lose a match until I had to fight Gen. Even then it was very close, and I beat him on the second try. Even more to my surprise, my next opponent was C. Viper, my rival. Since she's the rival, I've had a lot of practice against the computer using her, and won relatively easily. Then, not to my surprise at all, I can't even get Seth down to 1/2 his lifebar in any round.
I think the difficulty setting for arcade mode just sets the difficulty of Seth, and not any of the other fighters. Even so, I have definitely improved because I doubt I could have won any matches on hardest setting a few weeks ago. But still I suck because people destroy me online with ease.
All this talk about the game makes me want to buy it, but I think I should wait for SSF IV
Yes, you should. I only bought SFIV because it was cheap on Steam. If I'm still playing when it comes out, which I probably will be, I'll buy SSFIV for the 360 when it comes out.
If they hit your armor you let go of the focus. In the video the focus is level 3, but you only need it to be level 2 to get the crumple to setup for the ultra.
Be careful. While was in training room with Sagat I accidentally found out that if you cancel a move into a focus the focus has no armor. Any attack that hits you results in a counter hit. That level 3 focus would need to hit before your opponent has time to throw out a jab to be safe. It looks like that's the case in your video so you may be in luck.
Be careful. While was in training room with Sagat I accidentally found out that if you cancel a move into a focus, this focus has no armor. Any attack that hits you results in a counter hit. That level 3 focus would need to hit before your opponent has time to throw out a punch.
That's BS. If I'm spending two bars to do a move, that move should be fuckin' awesome.
This is the kind of thing in SFIV that has inspired me to try to come up with a purely intuitive fighting game. The problem with SFIV is that it is difficult to learn and nearly impossible to master. The best games are always the ones that are really low barriers to entry, high skill caps, and smooth learning curves.
There are just some of the ideas I have had. Not sure if they are all good or perfect ideas. These are just some of the kind of things I'm thinking about for making a fighting game that anyone can instantly figure out, but are still complex enough to make hardcore people happy.
1) All moves would be trivial to execute so that anyone who had instructions would do it on the first try. No frustration with trying to do a hadouken, and you just end up punching the air.
2) Everything that happens on screen will make sense as per the real world. If I shoot a ball of fire at you, you can't block it with your arms.
3) The whole game will be based on a realistic-ish physics engine as opposed to invisible hitboxes and such. The 3D model of my fist collides with the 3D model of your face, at such speed, with such power, doing such damage.
4) Instead of an abstracted health bar, I would use a graphic of the human body that starts green, and different parts change to red. This would provide a huge element of strategy. For example, you could keep going for someone's leg until you break it. But if someone's leg is hurting, they might try to protect it, etc. etc. This kind of thing provides significant tactical and strategic complexity that is not opaque to the new player.
That's BS. If I'm spending two bars to do a move, that move should be fuckin' awesome.
I don't think it's that bad. From the video you put up Ryu has 2 frames or 3 at most to throw out a counter attack before your level 3 focus hits. If he doesn't do a crouching jab immediately upon wake up he will likley eat your focus into ultra which is very damaging. Even then he may not have time for the jab to come out. Also, take into consideration reaction time and muscle memory. The entire match if your opponent got hit by a Psycho Crusher you flew away and he had time to regroup, now your standing right above him with an unblockable attack ready to hit him on wake up. This trick won't work every time, but thrown out once in a while it can catch allot of people. You not giving up two bars for a focus attack with armor, your giving up 2 bars for a surprise and mix up. Surprising your opponent is very important to winning. Predictability leads to death, at least in well made fighting games. Sure you could lose on this trade, but if it was a guaranteed 80% combo that wouldn't be very fair now would it?
Also, although it is likley Ryu could not jab you out of that focus, he could do a Shoryuken which is invincible on start up. About 1/2 cast with an ex bar has a solution to get out of this. BUT, what if you focus then back dash right as Ryu wakes up? Baiting the Shoryuken then allowing you to land a Ultra anyway? There are many levels to this trap. Mind games can be played.
The problem with SFIV is that it is difficult to learn and nearly impossible to master.
Being nearly impossible to master isn't a problem it just means that there is a high skill cap. A game that is very easy to master is something far worst. Though, I do agree there is allot of hidden things in Street Fighter that should be told to you with in game tutorials.
1) All moves would be trivial to execute so that anyone who had instructions would do it on the first try. No frustration with trying to do a hadouken, and you just end up punching the air.
2) Everything that happens on screen will make sense as per the real world. If I shoot a ball of fire at you, you can't block it with your arms.
3) The whole game will be based on a realistic-ish physics engine as opposed to invisible hitboxes and such. The 3D model of my fist collides with the 3D model of your face, at such speed, with such power, doing such damage.
4) Instead of an abstracted health bar, I would use a graphic of the human body that starts green, and different parts change to red. This would provide a huge element of strategy. For example, you could keep going for someone's leg until you break it. But if someone's leg is hurting, they might try to protect it, etc. etc. This kind of thing provides significant tactical and strategic complexity that is not opaque to the new player.
So a UFC fighting game with more visible damage to the character models and maybe less realistic physics to allow for more fancy combos. Could be interesting. I would argue with this style of game your skill cap for higher end play will still be very low. I have yet to see a 3D fighting game that allows for significantly high level play. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that no one has done it yet and there are likley fundamental reasons why. Though, it could just be poor play testing and game design.
1) All moves would be trivial to execute so that anyone who had instructions would do it on the first try. No frustration with trying to do a hadouken, and you just end up punching the air.
2) Everything that happens on screen will make sense as per the real world. If I shoot a ball of fire at you, you can't block it with your arms.
3) The whole game will be based on a realistic-ish physics engine as opposed to invisible hitboxes and such. The 3D model of my fist collides with the 3D model of your face, at such speed, with such power, doing such damage.
4) Instead of an abstracted health bar, I would use a graphic of the human body that starts green, and different parts change to red. This would provide a huge element of strategy. For example, you could keep going for someone's leg until you break it. But if someone's leg is hurting, they might try to protect it, etc. etc. This kind of thing provides significant tactical and strategic complexity that is not opaque to the new player.
Fight Night Round 4 attempted all of these things with moderate success. I'd really like to see someone take that sort of design philosophy into a faster, more varied game.
So your issue is with the realism of blocking a fireball with your arms. A fireball you justthrew out of your hands.
Supernatural powers are fine, but it takes supernatural powers to stop supernatural powers. If you want to stop a fireball with Zangief's green hand, be my guest.
Well, you do take a bit of damage when you block a fireball with your arms. Only just a bit though.
Ok, so let's pretend we live in street fighter world. Ryu shoots a fireball at YOU, yes YOU. You kneel on the ground and cross your arms in front of you. It stings, but then goes away. BULL SHIT. The obvious argument is that the Street Fighters have some power they use when blocking. They aren't just putting their arms up, they are using some supernatural martial art of defense. If so, it would be visible somehow.
Also, while I understand poking in the game, and it is a major aspect of the game, it really makes no sense whatsoever. If a big green monster is spinning in a ball and flying at your face super-fast, you can't just poke him with a finger to stop it. Sorry. A fireball, sure, but not a light punch.
No, it's invisible. You create a counter ki in your body by focusing your spirit on the arms. If, while blocking a hadoken in this manner, you were hit from behind by another hadoken, it would probably kill you.
No, it's invisible. You create a counter ki in your body by focusing your spirit on the arms. If, while blocking a hadoken in this manner, you were hit from behind by another hadoken, it would probably kill you.
This whole conversation has really went off the elementary school could Wolverine beat a 9th level Paladin route...
Comments
I've actually gotten in the habit of just letting loose the ultra if the opponent has almost no health left. Even if they block, it usually does enough damage for me to win.
Also, sometimes I whip out a move that is good, but unintended.
Edit* Fetus is right but 90% of people that are not using Rose/Ryu (projectile Ultra) will not have the reaction time to catch you. What in theory can happen and what does happen are two very different things.
As you can see, the only thing that makes this not a combo, technically speaking, is that Ryu can maybe do something when he's waking up and you are charging the focus attack. Depending on which character you are fighting they may or may not be able to escape. In most situations, they won't be able to do anything. If they block, the focus goes through. If they hit your armor you let go of the focus. In the video the focus is level 3, but you only need it to be level 2 to get the crumple to setup for the ultra.
Other things to note - It would probably be better to do the scissor cancel into super instead of ultra, but you can't do this with super because canceling the psycho crusher into the focus costs two super bars. Also, you don't need to do a psycho crusher, this will work with a scissor or crusher of any strength. You can also combo into it any way you want. I chose two fierce punches because they do a lot of damage, and it's easy to cancel out of the standing fierce.
Obviously pulling off this entire sequence in a real fight is unlikely. The thing is that by practicing it in different configurations I have built skill in many fundamentals. Just the focus attack, crumple, ultra component is good to practice and use on its own. Just the cancel into special move is good to practice. This just puts the whole show together at once.
Edit* Also do the combo with Ryu recorded doing neutral jump to see if he can escape just by holding up. I think you'll catch his toes.
I usually play on medium or medium-hard. I can beat the game on either of these difficulty levels, but there are a few characters that I always have a tough time against like Rufus, El Fuerte, Zangief, etc.
I got curious and just now I decided to try playing Arcade on Hardest setting. I assumed the computer would do those crazy unavoidable combos of death, and I wouldn't beat a single opponent.
Much to my surprise, this was not the case at all. I lose many rounds, and had many close matches. However, I did not lose a match until I had to fight Gen. Even then it was very close, and I beat him on the second try. Even more to my surprise, my next opponent was C. Viper, my rival. Since she's the rival, I've had a lot of practice against the computer using her, and won relatively easily. Then, not to my surprise at all, I can't even get Seth down to 1/2 his lifebar in any round.
I think the difficulty setting for arcade mode just sets the difficulty of Seth, and not any of the other fighters. Even so, I have definitely improved because I doubt I could have won any matches on hardest setting a few weeks ago. But still I suck because people destroy me online with ease.
This is the kind of thing in SFIV that has inspired me to try to come up with a purely intuitive fighting game. The problem with SFIV is that it is difficult to learn and nearly impossible to master. The best games are always the ones that are really low barriers to entry, high skill caps, and smooth learning curves.
There are just some of the ideas I have had. Not sure if they are all good or perfect ideas. These are just some of the kind of things I'm thinking about for making a fighting game that anyone can instantly figure out, but are still complex enough to make hardcore people happy.
1) All moves would be trivial to execute so that anyone who had instructions would do it on the first try. No frustration with trying to do a hadouken, and you just end up punching the air.
2) Everything that happens on screen will make sense as per the real world. If I shoot a ball of fire at you, you can't block it with your arms.
3) The whole game will be based on a realistic-ish physics engine as opposed to invisible hitboxes and such. The 3D model of my fist collides with the 3D model of your face, at such speed, with such power, doing such damage.
4) Instead of an abstracted health bar, I would use a graphic of the human body that starts green, and different parts change to red. This would provide a huge element of strategy. For example, you could keep going for someone's leg until you break it. But if someone's leg is hurting, they might try to protect it, etc. etc. This kind of thing provides significant tactical and strategic complexity that is not opaque to the new player.
Also, although it is likley Ryu could not jab you out of that focus, he could do a Shoryuken which is invincible on start up. About 1/2 cast with an ex bar has a solution to get out of this. BUT, what if you focus then back dash right as Ryu wakes up? Baiting the Shoryuken then allowing you to land a Ultra anyway? There are many levels to this trap. Mind games can be played. Being nearly impossible to master isn't a problem it just means that there is a high skill cap. A game that is very easy to master is something far worst. Though, I do agree there is allot of hidden things in Street Fighter that should be told to you with in game tutorials. So a UFC fighting game with more visible damage to the character models and maybe less realistic physics to allow for more fancy combos. Could be interesting. I would argue with this style of game your skill cap for higher end play will still be very low. I have yet to see a 3D fighting game that allows for significantly high level play. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that no one has done it yet and there are likley fundamental reasons why. Though, it could just be poor play testing and game design.
Also, while I understand poking in the game, and it is a major aspect of the game, it really makes no sense whatsoever. If a big green monster is spinning in a ball and flying at your face super-fast, you can't just poke him with a finger to stop it. Sorry. A fireball, sure, but not a light punch.