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Tic-Tac-Toe the Video Game

edited February 2010 in Video Games
Just read this great article on Kotaku that really just says it all.

Those Who Play Video Game Tic-Tac-Toe Will Be Judged

What do you think of this Tic-Tac-Toe man? Do you judge him? Assuming you do judge him, how do you judge him? Do you think that the fact this man can afford an iPhone says something about our society?

All I will say is this. If you have a hard time understanding what I see when I look at people playing solved games, mindless games, grinding games, etc. look at the Tic-Tac-Toe man. That is what I see when I look at you. Unlike Totilo, I judge.

Measure is unceasing.
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Comments

  • But this guy, he always played the lower-left corner and sometimes he beat the computer. Sometimes he lost. Sometimes he had a draw.
    What the?
  • edited February 2010
    Wow, I thought you made this thread about the wonderfully bad band of the same name. I really need to check thread categories.
    Anyway, for fun:

    Have fun getting that our of your head.

    EDIT: The thread name didn't say "the Video Game" when I posted this.
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • edited February 2010
    If you have a hard time understanding what I see when I look at people playing solved games, mindless games, grinding games, etc.
    But aren't they doing a different mental thing, getting a different utility than what you are doing when you game? When I want to think hard, get excited, and be challenged, I play "real" video games or board games. However, when I want to relax my mind like a meditation, sometimes I will play that sudoku game. The sudoku, as you know, is just a pattern repeated with slight variations each time. It is a way to focus your mind without challenging it. If I wanted a challenge, I would play Go. I have other games available. I only choose the number-meditation of Sudoku when I want meditation. You don't seem to understand that these people are doing these repetitious actions, they are not gaming to think, they are gaming to experience that sense of non-think, similar to meditation. A focus without substance.

    At least that's my assessment. If you make the argument that people must be challenged all the time, I dunno, that's debatable.
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • If I want to relax my mind I get some trance music or whatever.
  • So, isn't it the same thing? I would argue that the repetition of trance beats, and the repetition of Sudoku are somewhat similar in their effect.
  • edited February 2010
    So, isn't it the same thing? I would argue that the repetition of trance beats, and the repetition of Sudoku are somewhat similar in their effect.
    Are you losing at Sudoku, or are you solving it as easily as tic-tac-toe?
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • edited February 2010
    If you have a hard time understanding what I see when I look at people playing solved games, mindless games, grinding games, etc. look at the Tic-Tac-Toe man. That is what I see when I look at you. Unlike Totilo, I judge.
    I think people perfectly comprehend what you see, but they in turn see you as absolutist, extremist, narrow, harsh, uncompromising, and overly judgmental.
    As Emily points out: mindless, solved, or plot heavy games are fulfilling a different utility - one which you fulfill in different ways or for whcih you do not have a need. This is like the difference between reading Proust and reading an Asterix comic. Both have worth for fulfilling different needs.
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • If you have a hard time understanding what I see when I look at people playing solved games, mindless games, grinding games, etc. look at the Tic-Tac-Toe man. That is what I see when I look at you. Unlike Totilo, I judge.
    I think people perfectly comprehend what you see, but they in turn see you as absolutist, extremist, narrow, harsh, uncompromising, and overly judgmental.
    As Emily points out: mindless, solved, or plot heavy games are fulfilling a different utility - one which you fulfill in different ways or for whcih you do not have a need. This is like the difference between reading Proust and reading an Asterix comic. Both have worth for fulfilling different needs.
    So you don't think my judgement of the tic-tac-toe guy is fair?
  • If I want to relax my mind I get some trance music or whatever.
    Pfft, whatever dude. I only listen to noise, experimental, dense and confusing hip hop, and virtuoso classical pieces. What the fuck is the point of music if it doesn't challenge me?
  • I relax my mind with Tetris. Does that make Tetris less valid?
  • More seriously, I do think Tic-Tac-Toe Guy's behaviour is a little strange. Maybe his brain just gets a little kick out of the mindless ritual of wins/losses, and he doesn't realise or doesn't care how silly the situation is. I don't think I can infer anything about what kind of person he is from that, though, people can have their idiosyncrasies. Who knows, maybe it helps him think?
  • Pfft, whatever dude. I only listen to noise, experimental, dense and confusing hip hop, and virtuoso classical pieces. What the fuck is the point of music if it doesn't challenge me?
    You really didn't need to green text that. :P

    I relax my mind with mindless flash games that have little meaningless achievements. Dull and repetitive tasks have a meditative quality, and games like that are great meditation for someone who is very hand-oriented.
  • It's equally possible that he's one of those people who stacks an iPhone with clutter, uses a bunch of apps once, and never uses them again. He could have just been toying with it, and not really "playing" Tic-Tac-Toe.
  • You really didn't need to green text that. :P
    I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to Internet sarcasm. I have been taken seriously far too many times.
  • edited February 2010
    If you have a hard time understanding what I see when I look at people playing solved games, mindless games, grinding games, etc. look at the Tic-Tac-Toe man. That is what I see when I look at you. Unlike Totilo, I judge.
    I think people perfectly comprehend what you see, but they in turn see you as absolutist, extremist, narrow, harsh, uncompromising, and overly judgmental.
    As Emily points out: mindless, solved, or plot heavy games are fulfilling a different utility - one which you fulfill in different ways or for whcih you do not have a need. This is like the difference between reading Proust and reading an Asterix comic. Both have worth for fulfilling different needs.
    So you don't think my judgement of the tic-tac-toe guy is fair?
    My comment wasn't in regard to how you view teh tic-tac-toe guy, it was to how you have described your view of people that play "solved games".
    If I want to relax my mind I get some trance music or whatever.
    How is playing a game to relax or listening music to relax any better or worse?
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • My comment wasn't in regard to how you view teh tic-tac-toe guy, it was to how you have described your view of people that play "solved games".
    But that's what the tic-tac-toe guy is doing. He's playing a solved game. Even worse than that, he seems not to have solved it. I hope he's not a doctor!
  • ......
    edited February 2010
    The writer of that article starts with a semantics argument. Solution: Define 'video game', see if Tic-Tac-Toe on the iPhone falls under that definition, fuck off. The man was wasting his time on the train with a simple brainless game. Yes, he could've been productive, he could've enriched himself, but he chose to just tap away at his iPhone. There are worse things he could be doing.
    Even worse than that, he seems not to have solved it. I hope he's not a doctor!
    Or he wasn't playing and just observed the algorithm that was implemented. You don't know. So you can't tell.
    Post edited by ... on
  • My comment wasn't in regard to how you view teh tic-tac-toe guy, it was to how you have described your view of people that play "solved games".
    But that's what the tic-tac-toe guy is doing. He's playing a solved game. Even worse than that, he seems not to have solved it. I hope he's not a doctor!
    Did you ever doodle when you had nothing else to do in school?
  • Did you ever doodle when you had nothing else to do in school
    I doodle now, but doodling isn't a solved game.
  • Meh. It was a crappy article (I originally expected it to be about a Nintendo DS game). The writer was getting overly defensive of something pointless. The Tic Tac Toe app is free. It's not like this guy is supporting some heartless casual game industry that is trying to destroy games like Bayonetta. I doubt this was a man who was tech savvy enough to even be an iPhone clutterer.

    He was probably just desperate for entertainment, and the first thing he encountered was the Tic Tac Toe app. Sure, it was a very simple entertainment, but I'm sure he had a very base appetite. Some fresh-faced programmer happily got his tic tac toe application on the iPhone store, set the price for free (not expecting to get anything back from his coding), and someone was able to distract themselves for a commute with it. If you think there's something wrong with that, you might as well criticize someone who is idly humming while doing a menial task because they aren't outright singing.
  • Did you ever doodle when you had nothing else to do in school
    I doodle now, but doodling isn't a solved game.
    It's a largely pointless task that the mind defaults to in order to stay occupied in the absence of stimulating thought. I find little difference between the man racking up absentminded losses and victories in tic-tac-toe than I do with the pages in notebooks I've filled with psychedelic swirls and figures, aside from the fact that once in a blue moon I get something that would look good on a t-shirt.

    That being said, I see no reason to vilify this man for this particular choice. We don't know the circumstances as to why he was playing the game or anything. We don't even know if the man had a book or some superior source of entertainment on his person. I find it arrogant of us to even assume he had a base appetite in terms of entertainment.

    In my Physics lecture, we answer questions with these little remotes. Even when the bar graph pops up on the display before time is up and 99% of the class has answered correctly (for a half-point of extra credit, no less), a few people still hit wrong answers just to observe their vote change and allow themselves to be defeated. Our professor does talks around the country on the system, and he says even faculty members, people with PhDs in unfathomably complex areas of Physics, still switch to see themselves fail. He has no idea why; presumably no one does. Maybe the man was failing at tic-tac-toe for the same reason these PhDs gave incorrect answers to kinematics problems they learned to do with ease decades ago.
  • If I want to relax my mind I get some trance music or whatever.
    How is playing a game to relax or listening music to relax any better or worse?
    Answer the question.
  • I see nothing condescending about calling a simple appetite base. I say that having the desire to occupy the mind with something not complex is something everyone gets, especially during mundane tasks. Maybe that was a bad word to use, but I just want to make myself clear that I am on this man's side and I think the whole "Casual Crisis" is 96% bullshit.
  • I see nothing condescending about calling a simple appetite base. I say that having the desire to occupy the mind with something not complex is something everyone gets, especially during mundane tasks. Maybe that was a bad word to use, but I just want to make myself clear that I am on this man's side and I think the whole "Casual Crisis" is 96% bullshit.
    Alright, then we're on the same page. "Basic" would have been a better choice, in my opinion; "base" has always felt to me like the thing it describes is beneath the user.
  • edited February 2010
    Just read this great article on Kotaku that really just says it all.
    Yep, It sure does.
    Maybe this man was having fun. Maybe Tic-Tac-Toe on the iPhone is all this man needed to satisfy his video gaming jones. Maybe I'll have to live with that, because, really, why should I care?

    Keep playing, Tic-Tac-Toe man. I'll try not to judge you harshly, even if you make so little sense to me.
    Kotaku Article: Somewhat thoughtful missive about how gamers judge each other by the games they play, and despite the author's initial judgment on the guy playing Tic-Tac-Toe, he figures, "Hey, He's having fun anyway. You go, Guy."

    Scott Rubin : What? Some playing a solved game? THEY MUST BE STUPID. YET THEY CAN AFFORD AN IPHONE. RAAAAAAAGE.
    This is obviously a facetious exaggeration to illustrate the point, not exactly what he wrote, obviously.
    Why am I not surprised, Scott?
    Post edited by Churba on
  • I know a lot of doctors. I have personally met some of the most skilled doctors in the entire nation. It is doubtful to me that all of them know that 4x4 and 6x6 Othello have been solved, much less that they know the method for perfect play.

    It doesn't change the fact that that has absolutely no bearing on their profession, nor the fact that even if someone knows that bit of game theory, they will never be able to say that they have used radical steroid and immune system therapies to bring someone back from the brink of death by liver failure before the transplant was even remotely feasible. Nor will it change the fact that such achievements still stand among the lesser of their accomplishments, and that they are vividly aware of the fact that their ability to save a human life depends nothing at all on knowing anything about the optimum play strategy for 3x3 go.

    You are applying the necessity of game theory knowledge to situations where it is not at all necessary. It's like seeing a man staring blankly at the Gross–Pitaevskii equation and going, "Man, he better not be an immunologist!"
  • If you enjoy playing a game, even if you've solved it, there is no reason to NOT play the game. Games are for our personal enjoyment, after all.
  • If you enjoy playing a game, even if you've solved it, there is no reason to NOT play the game. Games are for our personal enjoyment, after all.
    This.
  • edited February 2010
    If you enjoy playing a game, even if you've solved it, there is no reason to NOT play the game.
    The point that Scott is trying to make is that people are actually enjoying a solved game. Is is okay to derive joy from something that we already know the solution to?
    Post edited by Vhdblood on
  • If you enjoy playing a game, even if you've solved it, there is no reason to NOT play the game.
    The point that Scott is trying to make is that people are actually enjoying a solved game. Is is okay to derive joy from something that we already know the solution to?
    If you enjoy playing a game, even if you've solved it, there is no reason to NOT play the game. Games are for our personal enjoyment, after all.
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