I just booked my flights last night and my total on Jet Blue from southern California (Long Beach to be exact) was $199.84 round trip.
So $100 one way? That's crazy.
Agreed.
So $100 one way? That's crazy.
Competitive with driving solo even.
Double agreed. A few of my coworkers and mutual friends are piling in a car so it will be cheaper in gross dollars for them but they will spend much more time in the travel then I. I'd rather have extra time in Seattle so the slight increase in my payout is worth it to me.
According to the federal government's personal mileage reimbursement rate, one mile driven in a car accounts for fifty cents of expense, with gas included in that figure. That puts your Californiana trip at $567, and saves each person in the car almost $175. Screw all the opportunity cost talk. I think it's a perfectly reasonably decision to put 4 people in a car and drive long distances.
Everyone forgets the time lost arriving at the airport early, the hassle of security, the annoyingness of non-electronics periods during take off and landing, the risk of delays or lost baggage, and the time wasted waiting for you bag, finding transportation, etc.
The only downsides to driving are the fact that someone needs to drive, it takes a few hours longer, and maybe you hit traffic (I say it's more likely to hit flight delay). Given all of these factors, I would consider flying a luxury, and it's insane to think people should either drop that cash or not go.
1.) Registration and a 1,200 seat panel room have been moved to the Sheraton Hotel. 2.) The Pike Street Annex renovation is complete, and the entire tabletop area will be moved there. Accessible via street, or an escalator located in the expo hall. 3.) The Main Theater has been moved off-site to a performing arts hall 5-6 minutes walking distance away, allowing the old main theater room to become the queue room, and the expo hall to expand and gobble up the old queue room.
So to recap, registration, one panel room, the main theater, and the entire tabletop room have been moved out of the convention center. I can only wonder what is going into all that new space. The only thing mentioned was the expansion of the expo hall. Sounds like in a few years, PAX will just take over all of downtown Seattle at this rate.
These moves are good in that everything at PAX will have enough space. The problem is distance. Cons that take up separate buildings often have problems. Anime Next is a good example of this. They take up multiple buildings all in the same area. The result is that things which are not in the main building are neglected when people give up looking for them.
Depends on the trip. When I visit Arizona, it takes many more than a few hours longer to get there driving. It also depends on the source and destination themselves: city-to-city mitigates much of the extra time of flying, and you have the added benefit of not having to pay to park anywhere. If either destination isn't in a major city, driving becomes much more reasonable. Living in Beacon, driving made a hell of a lot more sense for most travel. Now that we live in the city, the plane is actually faster and easier.
Airport time is obviated for us just for the fact that we live basically next to the airport. Just take the subway over and we're there. All of our flights are direct, since the city is a hub, rather than a spoke.
Everyone forgets the time lost arriving at the airport early, the hassle of security, the annoyingness of non-electronics periods during take off and landing, the risk of delays or lost baggage, and the time wasted waiting for you bag, finding transportation, etc.
Nobody forgets this. It's simply that it's mostly a myth. You see, the people who perpetuate this myth are people who do not fly very often. They go to the airport, and they lose a lot of time there because they are slow. They don't know exactly what to do, so it takes them a long time to get to the gate. Also, people who fly rarely are more likely doing most of their flying during holidays and other really busy times. Thus, their impression of what it's like to fly is jilted.
People who fly more frequently are used to the airport. You don't have to get there that early. You know not to fly during holidays and such. You know to check the status of the flight before leaving your house to avoid being stuck at the airport during a delay or cancellation. You know to only take direct flights. You know to fly Jet Blue, and not some shit airline that will fuck up. You know how to breeze through security. The non-electronic periods are maybe a couple minutes long, poor baby. And if you don't know have your transportation pre-prepared, that's quite foolish. However, you can always just go outside and immediately get a cab to wherever you need to go. Waiting for your bag takes maybe ten minutes, and I've never had any luggage lost in all my years. Also, flying people are smart enough to only put replacable things in the checked baggage, like clothes and toiletries. Take your laptop and other expensive stuff in the carry-on.
It's simply that it's mostly a myth. You see, the people who perpetuate this myth are people who do not fly very often
I used to fly as a profession, and it's not a myth at all. Not only was I dealing with people on a daily basis who had this sort of shit happen to them, it happened a not-insignificant amount of time to me too, and I know EXACTLY what to do, because I did it every day. It was still a problem at times, despite that I had more options open to me, and special considerations - for example, your average passenger can't just flash their ID and go airside, and shortcut straight to where they needed to go, or the ability to actually call up someone, and get the information they want, with no spin, directly from the airline.
People who fly more frequently are used to the airport.
But not all airports are the same - You might know JFK, but I'd wager you'd get lost in, say, Taipei.
You don't have to get there that early.
But if you don't, then you're doing it wrong. The finer you cut it, the less time you can afford to lose, and most often when you know what you're doing, time is lost by things that are not in your control.
You know to check the status of the flight before leaving your house to avoid being stuck at the airport during a delay or cancellation.
Because no flight has ever been cancelled while you're between the two. I've been called off reserve, been halfway to the airport, and then had another call to say "Oh, nevermind, the flight's been cancelled for X reason." more than once, and they have to notify me about that sort of thing if I'm involved. Your average PAX? Not so much.
You know to fly Jet Blue, and not some shit airline that will fuck up.
Every airline fucks up, and just because an airline is your preferred airline doesn't change that. To think otherwise is foolish - even more foolish than your average nervous person who isn't used to flying, because you're caught by surprise when something does fuck up. I've had Singapore Air, Asiana Airlines, Emirates and Virgin Blue all fuck up on me, and they're better than Jet Blue will ever be - we're talking World Airline Award Winners, here.
You know how to breeze through security.
Yeah, It's called "Having an airline employee security ID, and getting special consideration." Otherwise, you're not only at risk of being held up personally by a particularly dickish TSA agent, but at risk of being held up by any number of slack-jawed idiots who are flying at roughly the same time and who don't know how to breeze through security.
The non-electronic periods are maybe a couple minutes long, poor baby. And if you don't know have your transportation pre-prepared, that's quite foolish.
These two are absolutely correct.
Waiting for your bag takes maybe ten minutes, and I've never had any luggage lost in all my years.
Both things that are out of your control. I've had some long waits for bags, and I've had times where I walk into baggage claim, and don't even have to wait, just stroll up and grab my back straight away. Losing your bag is a matter of luck - I've lost two so far. Shit happens, and this shit is not shit you can control.
Also, flying people are smart enough to only put replacable things in the checked baggage, like clothes and toiletries. Take your laptop and other expensive stuff in the carry-on.
Yes and Yes, a thousand times each. Not being stupid, as usual, will save you a lot of aggravation.
Because no flight has ever been cancelled while you're between the two
We're a special case: the airport is right there. There are so many ways to get to the airport quickly in New York that anything which prevented a timely arrival would be a city-stopper anyway.
Other airports and airlines may indeed suck. That sort of travel is a different case. For us, we live in a central hub city, and only fly to smaller hub cities or major spoke cities. Our flights to conventions are the most bog standard commuter hops there are. Jet Blue also has a new terminal, and this itself goes a long way to minimizing any time spent on baggage or security. The destination city airports are small and trivial to deal with.
Living right in NYC I agree with you guys that it makes more sense to fly. The only reason I spoke up was b/c I felt Scott was needlessly crapping on someone else's reasons for driving. Yeah, the list of annoyances for air travel are minor, but my point was that they are numerous.
Turning off my DS for 10 min, waiting for my bag for 10 min, waiting at rental car counter for 10 min, boo hoo to each, but they all start to add up. I'm not trying to make a "this is better than that" point, but rather suggesting that for drives shorter than 12 hours, it just becomes a matter of personal preference (for the average car-owning suburbanite)
We're a special case: the airport is right there. There are so many ways to get to the airport quickly in New York that anything which prevented a timely arrival would be a city-stopper anyway.
I'm not talking about YOUR case, I know 99 times out of 100, this wouldn't be a problem for you - It'd be pretty unlikely for you to get caught between the house and the airport with anything like that. But I wasn't speaking of your case, and it seems that neither was Scott - it was generalised.
Other airports and airlines may indeed suck.
Well, the one other airport I mentioned, Taipei, Is pretty awesome. It's also bewilderingly huge, and somewhat labyrinth like, with few landmarks. It doesn't suck - I prefer it to JFK, in my opinion, they have better facilities - it's just harder for first-timers there, no matter how often they fly elsewhere. JFK, as airports go, is bog-standard. It's not bad, but it's not great. And Jet blue Sucks, relative to Virgin blue, for example, which is a fair comparison, as it's another domestic airline that does a large amount of business. Like I said, It's your preference, but that doesn't make it better, it just makes it the one you prefer.
That sort of travel is a different case.
There's not that much of a different case, and yeah, while it is a different type of flying I was doing, I also know the ins and outs of pretty much every other sort, by necessity and experience.
Our flights to conventions are the most bog standard commuter hops there are
Which can fuck up just the same as every other.
Jet Blue also has a new terminal
Sweet.
and this itself goes a long way to minimizing any time spent on baggage or security.
True that. More places to go though, less clogs in the line that you get.
The destination city airports are small and trivial to deal with.
Usually, yes.
However, I say again - It very much appears that Scott was speaking generally, not in your specific case. You have your shit down, for your needs, but your needs do not equal general advice. For example, if you're flying out of LA, Jetblue can be an absolute asshole of an affair(at least, last time I was in LA, which is outdated now, so forgive me if I'm getting that wrong) But Virgin America is much easier, quicker, and generally pleasant.
True that, and point taken, with an extra "Derp, I should have remembered that".
There was a FRC meme back in the college days of reminding each other that we were arguing with Scott and to stop it... seems some forum people need to learn that ^_^
There was a FRC meme back in the college days of reminding each other that we were arguing with Scott and to stop it... seems some forum people need to learn that ^_^
Oh, I do it for fun, even though I shouldn't, most likely. He's interesting, and a challenge to argue with, and I enjoy a challenge. I like the guy, but of course, that doesn't mean I'm not going to give him shit. I meant I should have remembered that Scott only has three frames of reference - Scott First person, Scott Fantasy first person view, and Scott as an unreliable narrator of a fantasy - before I noted that he was giving general advice I thought was disconnected from the way he does things.
Interesting choice that they would move the main theatre into Benaroya Hall. Pretty good venue actually, though I'm a little skeptical of the 5-6 minute walk to get there. Khoo says that they tested it several times, and it probably does only take that much time, but it definitely feels like it takes longer. If you assume that a city block is ~0.1 miles, then the walk is a good half mile from the convention center. And since they're planning on having the concerts there, I have to assume that the seats on the main floor can be removed, cause they've always been there the few times I've been there for symphonies.
And if you think that PAX can take over downtown Seattle, you underestimate its actual size. The convention center is at the very edge of downtown as it is.
I have a feeling I'll only be going over to the Benaroya Hall for the keynote and the first Q&A, never to return until the Omegathon finals.
Also, Khoo is a smart man, and I'm sure he has tested the walk many times. However, many of the people at PAX will be making this walk for the first time, and will be much slower, and may even get lost.
Also, Khoo is a smart man, and I'm sure he has tested the walk many times. However, many of the people at PAX will be making this walk for the first time, and will be much slower, and may even get lost.
But the average PAX attendee is more cunning and wily than, say, the average Otakon attendee, yet Otakon has them walking out to the arena for the COSplay without too much difficulty.
But the average PAX attendee is more cunning and wily than, say, the average Otakon attendee, yet Otakon has them walking out to the arena for the COSplay without too much difficulty.
This is true, and I'm sure PAXites will help each other find the path. However, the Otakon walk is only once for a single event. PAX has multiple main events.
But the average PAX attendee is more cunning and wily than, say, the average Otakon attendee, yet Otakon has them walking out to the arena for the COSplay without too much difficulty.
This is true, and I'm sure PAXites will help each other find the path. However, the Otakon walk is only once for a single event. PAX has multiple main events.
What about the people who don't have the privileges and conveniences you have?
At least with flying, it comes down to location and money. We live in the city, with easy access to one of the central hub airports of the US. Flying out and back from NYC, especially on Jet Blue, has a very low chance of failure or hardship. For everyone else, the chance of failure or hardship seems higher. Mitigate it as best you can. Jet Blue has never fucked me. US Airways has never not fucked me. I've never lost baggage. I also refuse to take non-direct flights in most cases, which is a huge contributor to my non-issues.
Before I lived IN the city, I'd allow an extra full hour for travel to the airport in addition to the buffer time for at-airport shenanigans. I'd also allow for an extra half-hour PER CHANGE OF MODE. Switching between trains or transferring? Extra half-hour per hop (not including actual transit time). I'd also have a bail threshold and a bail plan (usually catching a cab outside of whatever station I was in). Plan to fail, and have a solution at the ready.
When I lived in Rochester, and even when I lived in the Mid Hudson Valley, driving was far, far easier, faster, cheaper, and better than flying to most places I visited. Now that I live in the city, flying is easier and faster. Money is no longer a concern, which skews things heavily. Direct flights drastically reduce the chance of failure or hardship: were I not able to afford them, I would not likely fly nearly as often. We drove to Chicago for Anime Central on an epic and painful roadtrip. The next year, I drove from Poughkeepsie to Rochester, then took Amtrak from there to Chicago. We drove to Otakon every year from various places. Every trip is unique. Remember: Scott's solution to travel to non-major cities (or places without easy airport access) comes down to not traveling to said places...
In fact, money changes everything. I used to plan extensively for travel, with backup plans for all sorts of crazy issues. Car breaking down was a catastrophe (my plan, on one trip, involved writing a bad cheque to a mechanic and then withdrawing enough cash from an ATM to make my rent cheque bounce back to RIT, ensuring that the mechanic would get paid, while I had time to come up with a sob story for RIT). Lose my clothes? Better borrow. Flight canceled? Trip canceled. I had extensive and detailed failure scenarios at the ready.
Now, I have two backup plans. The first is my credit card. The second is my backup credit card.
It sucks, but the reality is that once you have enough money, there is an easy path to all things, and failure is no longer a concern. The things that can prevent me from completing travel would prevent practically all travel, and would be far beyond anything I could have foreseen or managed.
TL;DR: assess your own situation and plan accordingly. We happen to live in a good place and are lucky/rich. YMMV. Be cunning. Don't shy from doing something epic.
At least with flying, it comes down to location and money. We live in the city, with easy access to one of the central hub airports of the US. Flying out and back from NYC, especially on Jet Blue, has a very low chance of failure or hardship. For everyone else, the chance of failure or hardship seems higher. Mitigate it as best you can. Jet Blue has never fucked me. US Airways has never not fucked me. I've never lost baggage. I also refuse to take non-direct flights in most cases, which is a huge contributor to my non-issues.
I live in DC, we have serious business airports too. I was traveling with only a back pack. I was at the bar getting drunk before my flight, I showed up at boarding time to discover my flight delayed. I did everything right, but Jetblue just fucked up, nothing I could do about it.
A friend of mine stopped by my office just now and gave me a new ESC for my RC car. This combined with the batteries and charger I aquired recently should make for some awesome RC drifting at PAX.
On a related note, Driving to PAX means I can bring whatever I want with me without having to worry about shit getting lost at the airport or paying oodles of money for luggage weight.
Comments
Double agreed. A few of my coworkers and mutual friends are piling in a car so it will be cheaper in gross dollars for them but they will spend much more time in the travel then I. I'd rather have extra time in Seattle so the slight increase in my payout is worth it to me.
The XB and Me have the front door. Try to keep up.
Everyone forgets the time lost arriving at the airport early, the hassle of security, the annoyingness of non-electronics periods during take off and landing, the risk of delays or lost baggage, and the time wasted waiting for you bag, finding transportation, etc.
The only downsides to driving are the fact that someone needs to drive, it takes a few hours longer, and maybe you hit traffic (I say it's more likely to hit flight delay). Given all of these factors, I would consider flying a luxury, and it's insane to think people should either drop that cash or not go.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=123927
1.) Registration and a 1,200 seat panel room have been moved to the Sheraton Hotel.
2.) The Pike Street Annex renovation is complete, and the entire tabletop area will be moved there. Accessible via street, or an escalator located in the expo hall.
3.) The Main Theater has been moved off-site to a performing arts hall 5-6 minutes walking distance away, allowing the old main theater room to become the queue room, and the expo hall to expand and gobble up the old queue room.
So to recap, registration, one panel room, the main theater, and the entire tabletop room have been moved out of the convention center. I can only wonder what is going into all that new space. The only thing mentioned was the expansion of the expo hall. Sounds like in a few years, PAX will just take over all of downtown Seattle at this rate.
In any case, I can't wait to go.
Airport time is obviated for us just for the fact that we live basically next to the airport. Just take the subway over and we're there. All of our flights are direct, since the city is a hub, rather than a spoke.
People who fly more frequently are used to the airport. You don't have to get there that early. You know not to fly during holidays and such. You know to check the status of the flight before leaving your house to avoid being stuck at the airport during a delay or cancellation. You know to only take direct flights. You know to fly Jet Blue, and not some shit airline that will fuck up. You know how to breeze through security. The non-electronic periods are maybe a couple minutes long, poor baby. And if you don't know have your transportation pre-prepared, that's quite foolish. However, you can always just go outside and immediately get a cab to wherever you need to go. Waiting for your bag takes maybe ten minutes, and I've never had any luggage lost in all my years. Also, flying people are smart enough to only put replacable things in the checked baggage, like clothes and toiletries. Take your laptop and other expensive stuff in the carry-on.
Other airports and airlines may indeed suck. That sort of travel is a different case. For us, we live in a central hub city, and only fly to smaller hub cities or major spoke cities. Our flights to conventions are the most bog standard commuter hops there are. Jet Blue also has a new terminal, and this itself goes a long way to minimizing any time spent on baggage or security. The destination city airports are small and trivial to deal with.
Turning off my DS for 10 min, waiting for my bag for 10 min, waiting at rental car counter for 10 min, boo hoo to each, but they all start to add up. I'm not trying to make a "this is better than that" point, but rather suggesting that for drives shorter than 12 hours, it just becomes a matter of personal preference (for the average car-owning suburbanite)
And Jet blue Sucks, relative to Virgin blue, for example, which is a fair comparison, as it's another domestic airline that does a large amount of business. Like I said, It's your preference, but that doesn't make it better, it just makes it the one you prefer. There's not that much of a different case, and yeah, while it is a different type of flying I was doing, I also know the ins and outs of pretty much every other sort, by necessity and experience. Which can fuck up just the same as every other. Sweet. True that. More places to go though, less clogs in the line that you get. Usually, yes.
However, I say again - It very much appears that Scott was speaking generally, not in your specific case. You have your shit down, for your needs, but your needs do not equal general advice. For example, if you're flying out of LA, Jetblue can be an absolute asshole of an affair(at least, last time I was in LA, which is outdated now, so forgive me if I'm getting that wrong) But Virgin America is much easier, quicker, and generally pleasant.
And if you think that PAX can take over downtown Seattle, you underestimate its actual size. The convention center is at the very edge of downtown as it is.
Also, Khoo is a smart man, and I'm sure he has tested the walk many times. However, many of the people at PAX will be making this walk for the first time, and will be much slower, and may even get lost.
If Otakon can get away with it, any con can.
Before I lived IN the city, I'd allow an extra full hour for travel to the airport in addition to the buffer time for at-airport shenanigans. I'd also allow for an extra half-hour PER CHANGE OF MODE. Switching between trains or transferring? Extra half-hour per hop (not including actual transit time). I'd also have a bail threshold and a bail plan (usually catching a cab outside of whatever station I was in). Plan to fail, and have a solution at the ready.
When I lived in Rochester, and even when I lived in the Mid Hudson Valley, driving was far, far easier, faster, cheaper, and better than flying to most places I visited. Now that I live in the city, flying is easier and faster. Money is no longer a concern, which skews things heavily. Direct flights drastically reduce the chance of failure or hardship: were I not able to afford them, I would not likely fly nearly as often. We drove to Chicago for Anime Central on an epic and painful roadtrip. The next year, I drove from Poughkeepsie to Rochester, then took Amtrak from there to Chicago. We drove to Otakon every year from various places. Every trip is unique. Remember: Scott's solution to travel to non-major cities (or places without easy airport access) comes down to not traveling to said places...
In fact, money changes everything. I used to plan extensively for travel, with backup plans for all sorts of crazy issues. Car breaking down was a catastrophe (my plan, on one trip, involved writing a bad cheque to a mechanic and then withdrawing enough cash from an ATM to make my rent cheque bounce back to RIT, ensuring that the mechanic would get paid, while I had time to come up with a sob story for RIT). Lose my clothes? Better borrow. Flight canceled? Trip canceled. I had extensive and detailed failure scenarios at the ready.
Now, I have two backup plans. The first is my credit card. The second is my backup credit card.
It sucks, but the reality is that once you have enough money, there is an easy path to all things, and failure is no longer a concern. The things that can prevent me from completing travel would prevent practically all travel, and would be far beyond anything I could have foreseen or managed.
TL;DR: assess your own situation and plan accordingly. We happen to live in a good place and are lucky/rich. YMMV. Be cunning. Don't shy from doing something epic.
On a related note, Driving to PAX means I can bring whatever I want with me without having to worry about shit getting lost at the airport or paying oodles of money for luggage weight.