›
This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.

Genetically Engineered Food aka Franken-Fish

WyattWyatt
edited September 2010 in Flamewars
The FDA is looking to approve the first genetically engineered animal for sale to the public. Supersalmon may be able to meet the worlds increasing demand for the fish and not negatively impact wild fish or the environment. We've been doing this for years with plants, but is genetically modifying other animals for consumption crossing a line?

My opinion: We've been doing this for centuries with selective breeding. This is a better and perhaps only way to meet demands. It's about time science did something practical. Stop cloning sheep and start making sheep the size of cows, cows the size of elephants, and pigs made entirely of bacon... Who else is hungry?
«13

Comments

  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    cows the size of elephants
    They are actually making them smaller, it seems that a smaller cow produces about the same amount of beef and milk with less investment and a lower carbon footprint.
  • AprecheApreche
    I really want to eat the supersalmon in both sushi and lox forms.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    edited September 2010
    My Opinion: GIMME MUTANT SUPERSALMON IN MAH MOUF!!

    Though, all I wanted was mutant sea bass.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • JasonJason
    I've never understood the ethical argument I've never seen a cogent ethical argument against artificial meat. The objections have been made, sure, but I've not actually heard any reasoning behind them other than, "God, man. God."
  • AprecheApreche
    "God, man. God."
    If got created man, and man created super salmon, then god also created super salmon. If he doesn't like it, he would use his omnipotent powers to stop it. If he can't, or won't, use those powers for whatever reason, then I'm going to keep on doing what's awesome. If god doesn't like it, then let him try to stop me.
  • gomidoggomidog
    My opinion: We've been doing this for centuries with selective breeding. This is a better and perhaps only way to meet demands. It's about time science did something practical. Stop cloning sheep and start making sheep the size of cows, cows the size of elephants, and pigs made entirely of bacon... Who else is hungry?
    I don't think it is inherently bad. Right now, chickens that have been created through selective breeding grow ridiculously fast and thus have joint problems and can't walk. If we could genetically engineer a large animal that is healthy, without all these weird problems caused by the current inbreeding of domestic strains, go ahead. However, if we create monstrosities that spend their lives in pain due to their malformed bodies, count me out. Ick.
  • Nine BoomerNine Boomer
    You fools! Don't you know what'll happen when you mess with the beautiful balance of nature? It'll give you supercancer!
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    However, if we create monstrosities that spend their lives in pain due to their malformed bodies, count me out. Ick.
    Eventually we'll just have vats of bacon we grow in labs.
    Which I feel should count as a wonder of the world.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    Eventually we'll just have vats of bacon we grow in labs.
    Which I feel should count as a wonder of the world.
    Whoever does this first deserves the Nobel prize. All of them.
    My opinion: We've been doing this for centuries with selective breeding. This is a better and perhaps only way to meet demands. It's about time science did something practical. Stop cloning sheep and start making sheep the size of cows, cows the size of elephants, and pigs made entirely of bacon... Who else is hungry?
    This. Surprising, I know. :P

    We do need tight regulations and thorough testing, though. Interbreeding could be problematic from a biodiversity standpoint. What happens if the supersalmon take over? They may gain a significant competitive advantage owing to their very rapid growth; this in turn could harm a wild ecosystem.

    So, as long as they can be effectively contained to a farm, it should be OK. It'll just require careful population management techniques.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    Who else is hungry?
    I'm so very hungry right now.
  • AprecheApreche
    So, as long as they can be effectively contained to a farm, it should be OK. It'll just require careful population management techniques.
    Yeah, I had assumed that all of these salmons are kept in a farm, and can not escape. Well, they can escape, but not with their lives. Not cool to let them swim in the sea with the other fishies.
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    edited September 2010
    I'm down with this as long as they don't self-sterilize after several generations. Monsanto, your terminator gene ain't cool.
    Stop cloning sheep and start making sheep the size of cows
    Awww yeah, time to infect them with space viruses and get some stroon.
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    edited September 2010
    I'm down with this as long as they don't turn into time traveling robot fish after several generations. Monsanto, your terminator gene ain't cool.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    Yeah, I had assumed that all of these salmons are kept in a farm,
    We'd need some way to monitor this and make sure it was actually happening. This part is very important. Otherwise, I'm all for my mutant fish.
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    So, as long as they can be effectively contained to a farm, it should be OK. It'll just require careful population management techniques.
    Yeah, I had assumed that all of these salmons are kept in a farm, and can not escape. Well, they can escape, but not with their lives. Not cool to let them swim in the sea with the other fishies.
    You just know a PETA asshole will break in the farm and "Release them into the wild where they belong".
  • WyattWyatt
    Interbreeding could be problematic from a biodiversity standpoint. What happens if the supersalmon take over? They may gain a significant competitive advantage owing to their very rapid growth; this in turn could harm a wild ecosystem.
    I talked to a wildlife fishery guy about this. Apparently their are only 2 real strains of salmon. Hatcheries keep cross breading them, but the more they keep doing this the less effective (at preventing inbreeding mutations) it becomes. I guess he had a problem with the gills on the fish being over exposed. Not a good thing if you're a fishy. At our current rate of breeding in a captive setting, we'll eventually reach one DNA strand of salmon, and it'll suck.

    I think we should keep supersalmon in captivity and leave wild salmon to do it's thing. Releasing supersalmon into the wild will most likely drive the wild population into extinction. Either though competition over food source or eventual cross breeding. Supersalmon would also provide an abundant food source from any thing the eats salmon and would lead to a spike in predators. Not a good thing either. I'm a big fan of not fucking with nature.

    Local Ocean has already set up a locally sustainable fish farm. I see other business following suit. Especially in none coastal areas. Things should be fine unless someone gets the ideas to free the fish.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    I'm down with this as long as they don't self-sterilize after several generations. Monsanto, your terminator gene ain't cool.
    I'm a fan of sterile genetically engineered crops. That prevents them from becoming the dominant species.

    With animals, it's usually not necessary to self-sterilize. In Monsanto's case, they produce seeding crops that can contaminate non-Monsanto fields. That needs to be managed in some way, and self-sterilization (or even better, non-seeding) plants is the best way to do that.

    Monsanto are giant douchebags for other reasons as well.
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    My only issue with the Terminator is mainly that it prevents farmers from getting seed back for the next harvest, but this shouldn't be a problem in fish.

    Have at it.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    Monsanto are giant douchebags for other reasons as well.
    Monsanto is probably the whole reason GM foods have such a bad wrap in this country.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    edited September 2010
    At our current rate of breeding in a captive setting, we'll eventually reach one DNA strand of salmon, and it'll suck.
    Wouldn't that be pangenesis? Natural selection doesn't work that way at all. The problem of interbreeding a population rampantly is that you don't wind up weeding out deleterious recessive mutations, and instead create a greater chance to express those mutations.
    My only issue with the Terminator is mainly that it prevents farmers from getting seed back for the next harvest, but this shouldn't be a problem in fish.
    Yeah, that part certainly sucks, but it's the best option to prevent cross-contamination. Optionally, I guess you could have very highly contained fields, though that's a little hard to control.
    Post edited by TheWhaleShark on
  • AprecheApreche
    I'm a fan of sterile genetically engineered crops. That prevents them from becoming the dominant species.
    The thing is sterilization is good to prevent the crop from spreading all over the fuck. However, it's also really advantageous for the biotech people who do the engineering because they can force the farmer to keep paying out the ass for seeds year after year. If they just used regular fertile plants, they only have to buy seeds once, if all goes well.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    The thing is sterilization is good to prevent the crop from spreading all over the fuck. However, it's also really advantageous for the biotech people who do the engineering because they can force the farmer to keep paying out the ass for seeds year after year. If they just used regular fertile plants, they only have to buy seeds once, if all goes well.
    It's like DRMed food.
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    Except this DRM is biologically necessary to maintain the integrity of the ecosystem.

    It's a very tricky topic.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    This BRM is some BS, yo.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    I'd like to see someone produce a GM crop that lacks some sort of necessary enzyme. In order to grow the crop from seed, you'll need to apply the enzyme solution. This would allow you to save seed and not worry about contaminating wild crops. Price it to be much cheaper than re-buying seed from Monsanto. Drive Monsanto out of business. Win.
  • AprecheApreche
    I'd like to see someone produce a GM crop that lacks some sort of necessary enzyme. In order to grow the crop from seed, you'll need to apply the enzyme solution. This would allow you to save seed and not worry about contaminating wild crops. Price it to be much cheaper than re-buying seed from Monsanto. Drive Monsanto out of business. Win.
    Instead they'll sell you the enzyme.
  • WyattWyatt
    edited September 2010
    My only issue with the Terminator is mainly that it prevents farmers from getting seed back for the next harvest, but this shouldn't be a problem in fish.
    However, it's also really advantageous for the biotech people who do the engineering because they can force the farmer to keep paying out the ass for seeds year after year.
    I may not happen with fish but that has already happened in India. You can't keep GM plants out of the wild. You can't even keep them out of neighboring farms. Bees spread pollen and can go from heirloom crops to GM crops. This ruins your heirloom crops. DRMed food is a bad idea.
    Post edited by Wyatt on
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    edited September 2010
    I'd like to see someone produce a GM crop that lacks some sort of necessary enzyme. In order to grow the crop from seed, you'll need to apply the enzyme solution. This would allow you to save seed and not worry about contaminating wild crops. Price it to be much cheaper than re-buying seed from Monsanto. Drive Monsanto out of business. Win.
    Instead they'll sell you the enzyme.
    Open Source Bio. Just release the metabolic pathways that have been altered and a list of now-essential enzymes or amino acids.

    This is a very good idea.

    EDIT: Also, I'd like to come out in favor of Dave Riley's idea for GMO pineapples that taste like other fruits. Brilliance.
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    Instead they'll sell you the enzyme.
    Come on Pete, that didn't even take a minute of thought.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    edited September 2010
    Instead they'll sell you the enzyme.
    Come on Pete, that didn't even take a minute of thought.
    They'd have to spend time developing the process to make the enzyme solution, and of course, your process is already patented, as is the process for knocking out an early stage germination gene and inserting some kind of resistance gene.

    Or go the open-source route and just kill Monsanto.
    Post edited by TheWhaleShark on
Sign In or Register to comment.