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Why Old School FPS Wins

AprecheApreche
edited November 2010 in Video Games
Forget about our typical argument about keyboard and mouse vs. gamepad for FPS games. Instead, look at this image that so perfectly illustrates why the old school single player FPS beats the new school.

image
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Comments

  • SailSail
    What about Half-life? That's a game that's very linear but it also one of the best FPSes ever made.
  • AprecheApreche
    What about Half-life? That's a game that's very linear but it also one of the best FPSes ever made.
    Half-Life was good because the line is littered with creative obstacles and integrated with the story. There were also portions of the game where you had to backtrack, or where there were some maze-like areas. Even so, imagine if they somehow integrated all those Half-Life aspects with a Doom-like maze map.
  • AndrewAndrew
    image
  • SailSail
    Honestly, I'm not much of a fan of maze-maps in single-player modes. Also, I don't think it's necessarily that maze-maps were lost in favor of linear ones, as this picture suggests, but rather that free-roaming maps and sandbox games have replaced them.
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    I love Stalker for precisely that reason.
  • AprecheApreche
    I agree that a map where you go wherever you want is awesome. Part of what makes HL2 so good is that even though it is a linear map, they make it feel like a wide open world. You can totally just go off and explore that house over there, even the basement, the garage, whatever.

    The thing is, most of the games that have sandbox maps aren't true FPS, they are the RPG style. Another thing is that they are really just a bunch of wide open space with the cut scenes distributed at various landmarks with empty useless crap in-between. On top of that, a lot of the spaces are just procedurally generated and boring. I really think that procedural generation only works well if the user has crafting abilities. It's not fun to explore such repetitive places. I only want to explore hand-crafted areas with terrain. Look at Fallout 3 or Borderlands for examples of this kind of problem.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark

    The thing is, most of the games that have sandbox maps aren't true FPS, they are the RPG style.
    No true Scotsman levels up!
  • SailSail
    edited November 2010
    I'm certainly not saying that one thing is better than the other, because I really don't like Fallout 3 or Borderlands much, just that maze-maps are out of style and open world maps are hip and contemporary.
    Post edited by Sail on
  • AprecheApreche
    NotrueScotsman levels up!
    Fuckin' A right.
  • AprecheApreche
    I'm not certainly saying that one thing is better than the other, because I really don't like Fallout 3 or Borderlands much, just that maze-maps are out of style and open world is hip and contemporary.
    I want to see Zelda 1 style. Open world with mazes strewn about.
  • SailSail
    Zelda FPS, do it.
  • AndrewAndrew
    The thing is, most of the games that have sandbox maps aren't true FPS, they are the RPG style.
    No True Scotsman.
    Another thing is that they are really just a bunch of wide open space with the cut scenes distributed at various landmarks with empty useless crap in-between.
    Depends on the game and exactly what you are doing. Multiplayer games in large environments are unmatched IMHO.
    On top of that, a lot of the spaces are just procedurally generated and boring. I really think that procedural generation only works well if the user has crafting abilities.
    Chernarus is 225 km2 of pure hand crafted goodness. Actually, it's built around a real place in the Czech Republic.
  • AprecheApreche
    Depends on the game and exactly what you are doing. Multiplayer games in large environments are unmatched IMHO.
    Yeah, I'm only talking about single player. I don't really like mazes that much for multiplayer. When you have a multiplayer maze it really give a strong advantage to a player who has memorized the map, increasing the knowledge factor. Also, who wins usually ends up just being who sees who first, by completely chance. You go through the maze as fast as you can, and then someone just happens to be facing you as you turn the corner, and that decides it. Not so exciting.
  • WalkerWalker
    I love Stalker for precisely that reason.
    Yar verily. STALKER 1 and 3 have some of the best single-player FPS maps I've ever played. It's got the wide-open exploration with plenty of dilapidated, maze-like industrial architecture scattered about. All of those games are just on the edge of being broken, but I love 'em anyway.
  • AprecheApreche
    STALKER 1 and 3
    What's up with Stalker 2 then?
  • WalkerWalker
    STALKER 1 and 3
    What's up with Stalker 2 then?
    I haven't played it too much, but the general consensus on Clear Sky is that it's buggier, less atmospheric, and less open than Stalker 1 and Call of Pripyat.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    Scott obviously can't deal with the young, smart set and longs for outdated old stuff like a stupid old person. There's no reason to play those old games. They should just fade into obsolesence since everything is much better now.
  • AndrewAndrew
    Scott obviously can't deal with the young, smart set and longs for outdated old stuff like a stupid old person. There's no reason to play those old games. They should just fade into obsolesence since everything is much better now.
    Sour Grapes much?
  • AprecheApreche
    Scott obviously can't deal with the young, smart set and longs for outdated old stuff like a stupid old person. There's no reason to play those old games. They should just fade into obsolesence since everything is much better now.
    Just trying to play the fast young people games before I inevitably become the slow old person. I'm just thankful I wasn't already a slow old person before these things even existed.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    edited November 2010
    Scott obviously can't deal with the young, smart set and longs for outdated old stuff like a stupid old person. There's no reason to play those old games. They should just fade into obsolesence since everything is much better now.
    Just trying to play the fast young people games before I inevitably become the slow old person. I'm just thankful I wasn't already a slow old person before these things even existed.
    You already are too old. That's why you're whining about the old days like a broken down old grandpa. Have you had a prostate check lately? Maybe that's your problem.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • AprecheApreche
    You already are too old. That's why you're whining about the old days like a broken down old grandpa. Have you had a prostate check lately? Maybe that's your problem.
    ORLY? Let's play some Quake Live, and we'll see who's too old.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    edited November 2010
    You already are too old. That's why you're whining about the old days like a broken down old grandpa. Have you had a prostate check lately? Maybe that's your problem.
    ORLY? Let's play some Quake Live, and we'll see who's too old.
    Are people still playing that relic? I have a better idea. Let's play Skittles. That comes from the same era, doesn't it?
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • RymRym
    Scott obviously can't deal with the young, smart set and longs for outdated old stuff like a stupid old person. There's no reason to play those old games. They should just fade into obsolesence since everything is much better now.
    He was doing fine, but he made the critical mistake of defining FPS too narrowly. There are numerous FPsomething games out there. Team Fortress 2, for example, is barely a shooter, and is much more a First Person Team Coordination Shooter or something like that.

    The only qualifiers for just "FPS" right now are first-person view and shooting. This is a crap genre designation.
  • AprecheApreche
    The only qualifiers for just "FPS" right now are first-person view and shooting. This is a crap genre designation.
    Indeed. Minecraft is first-person and has shooting as an option. An FPS it is not.
  • RymRym
    An FPS it is not.
    No. It is an FPS. What we need are proper subgenres of FPS.
  • AprecheApreche
    No. It is an FPS. What we need are proper subgenres of FPS.
    The thing is FPS stands for first person shooter. It doesn't stand for first person with shooting. Minecraft has shooting, but it is not a shooter. A shooter being a game where shooting is the primary game mechanic. At least in a game like TF2, there is no denying it is clearly about shooting. Mincraft has shooting, but isn't about shooting, so it's not even an FPS.
  • ShiamShiam
    STALKER 1 and 3
    What's up with Stalker 2 then?
    I haven't played it too much, but the general consensus on Clear Sky is that it's buggier, less atmospheric, and less open than Stalker 1 and Call of Pripyat.
    This is very true, on all points. Clear Sky is nearly linear, and is most notably a faction system test. The first and third games while they have a linear story bit, they give you a lot to do outside of it.
    As for the linearity vs maze, so? What is the problem with linearity exactly? The big difference between older and newer FPSs is that newer FPSs integrate more story elements, and level design reflects that. Additionally doom style maps are arguably not anymore non-linear. They generally don't have multiple exits (special exits an exception not the rule), and the entirety of the level is just a maze to find the right elements to get to the exit. Whereas more modern FPSs are tending either towards open explorable worlds with points that are narratively important, or roughly linear levels that cut out the BS and take you through a series of events.
  • GroverBombGroverBomb
    What about Deus Ex? The original. Leveling up and augmentations and all that. Is that still old school? I felt it was a great game, mazey, what with all the shadowrun elements. Not sure if I'm looking forward to the new one though.

    Is there a year or a particular game that marked the segue into contemporary FPS? Categorizing-wise. Is Deus Ex an FPS-RPG perhaps? I've heard there's a contention with you guys about defining RPG, but how about FPS-RPG?
  • AprecheApreche
    What about Deus Ex? The original. Leveling up and augmentations and all that. Is that still old school?
    Deus X came out in the year 2000. Doom came out in the year 1993. You tell me.
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    It's pre-Halo.
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