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GeekNights 20101209 - World War Z

edited December 2010 in GeekNights

Tonight, we bring you our frank discussion of Max Brooks' World War Z in the latest installment of the GeekNights Book Club.

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Comments

  • I wonder how long it's going to take to get a Sparta remix of "How Can She Slap!?"
  • Rym's Thing -How Can She Slap!?
    This seems like the worst show ever.
  • Rym's Thing -How Can She Slap!?
    This seems like the worst show ever.
    Apparently it's a game show where they see how much bullying you can take before you crumble.

    I am totally on board with that dude giving her the five across the eyes. She struck first.
  • I wonder how long it's going to take to get a Sparta remix of "How Can She Slap!?"
  • I hate you for posting that.
  • I'm debating going back and reading more of WWZ before listening to this episode. I got about 30 pages into it before giving up on it, just like I did with Max Brooks' other book, the Zombie Survival Guide. This guy, this is not my kind of guy.
  • a1sa1s
    edited December 2010
    I have to say, I actually liked this book. It's not the best book in the world, obviously, but I thought it was fun. I'm guessing this stems from my relative inexperience with books (I read, maybe, 10 books a year, tops.) The fact that this was 'the' book this month is likely part of what makes me like it (due to sunk costs.)On the other hand, I genuinely didn't notice most of the bad writing Scrym talk about, the sameness of the characters, the forced speech patterns, the uniformity of world culture (well... ok, maybe that one a little, but I just thought that was due to interpretation ). I would also like to express my view of several issues from the show:
    1. I don't think it's a zombie-horror story (like Night of the Living Dead), but more of a catastrophe story (like the Day After Tomorrow): the world goes to heck in a hand basket, and the humans find a way to deal with it. (Yes, I noticed both of my examples are movies, but the fact is I don't actually know any zombie books... or catastrophe books for that matter.)
    2. There is a certain way people tend to view war, and somehow describing Flag Colored Giant Robots of Doom Freedom killing Nazi-alien-communists is more entertaining then having to take into account logistics, stealth, diseases and pretty much any military science since 1815. This book seems to make an effort to do this, although it does eventually fall short when the author believes the best use of WWII style equipment is a 18 century war doctrine (forming a square, having separate people reload guns for the shooters, firing in unison, etc.) On a side note, Yonkers was a random location chosen for that exact reason- fighting near the Statue of Liberty or at Bunker Hill would have just been cheesy.
    3. Despite all the JSFs and other TLAs the novel war is actually set now (in the 2010s)- the Chinese doctor, who had seen Mao (and was a doctor in the Sino–Soviet border conflict,) is still alive, the American military is still recovering from Iraq and (if I may turn one of your points around) people still know who Waterguy is.
    4. There are many ways to write a book (books are like cats in that regard), the one one way you don't do it, is making a map of character relationships and events written beforehand. The major stuff, sure, you can map that out, but if you want your book to sound in any way real, you need to let the relationships develop as you go, and not be afraid to get people together or apart. Or anyway that's what our Literature teacher would tell us, I never wrote anything over 50 pages in my life, and obviously never anything publishable. So, anyway, I think the author did well to have a (geographic) map in front of his eyes instead of relying on the Power of the Plot to spread the 'African rabies'.
    Post edited by a1s on
  • All I see is a wall of text. What it means I couldn't tell you if I wanted to...
  • edited December 2010
    Wow, for all the bitching about Non Fiction being made in the first part, you guys sure suddenly had a hate on the moment anything close to fantastical happened in World War Z.
    "I'm going to pick my favouriteist (sic) books ever!"
    So, what, we're going to get long boring technical manuals on the minutia of the most boring fleck of grey paint on the most boring picture known to man and get like two people discussing it? Or maybe you'll sell the world's best book that one can not purchase or even find for love nor money again and drive me up the god-damned wall when it turns out it's not available on the Kindle Store?

    Also, just say [date][year] and be fucking done with it. I'm getting sick of this bitching about the year and the petulant behaviour in response to said bitching.
    Post edited by Conan-San on
  • I really didn't think it was that bad and was actually getting quite annoyed at how hateful you were towards it when *almost* at the end of the show Rym said "Oh, the people who liked it (recommended it) listened to the audio book".

    BOOM. I had listened to the audio book...

    It was very well read, different actors for all the voice parts, very clearly separated each interview and made each interview feel fresh and new.

    You are probably right about the physical book, but the audio book version was fantastic.
  • Wow, for all the bitching about Non Fiction being made in the first part, you guys sure suddenly had a hate on the moment anything close to fantastical happened in World War Z.
    Well, if you didn't notice we actually liked all the fantastical stuff in The Lies of Locke Lamora and about a zillion other fantasy books. Why is that? It's not because there's any dislike for fantasy itself. I mean, the name of the show is GeekNights. We are nerds. We like fantasy and sci-fi. That's the way of the world.

    The problem with the fantastical parts of WWZ is that they are not consistent with the world that is presented. WWZ presents a world that is supposedly exactly like the real earth in present day, with only one difference. That difference is that there are zombies comin' up the hell right now! Shoot 'em in the head! So when you also try to tell me that an otaku can do action movie stunts, or that families can survive in a nuclear submarine, I have a hard time accepting it. Just like I can accept Daffy Duck surviving an anvil to the head, but if there's an anvil to the head in WWZ it had better result in much splattering of brains. The Matrix is a perfect example of getting me to believe a nerd can do ludicrous action movie shit.

    I think this really is a great example of one major thing that separates Rym and myself from most geeks/nerds. That is that we are extremely capable of detecting, and not being affected by, shallow pandering. It's the "woo game" we refer to and see at every convention. Most geeks react extremely positively when they are pandered to. They also seem incapable of detecting it. Maybe some can detect it, but don't care. WWZ presents a wide variety of cool scenes and scenarios that are basically woo game material for zombie fans. ZOMG infinite ammo, so cool! ZOMG zombies owning the awesome military technology in Yonkers, so cool! The fact that we see right through this sort of thing is the primary, but not the only, factor that sets our taste so far apart from the majority of our geek bretheren.
    So, what, we're going to get long boring technical manuals on the minutia of the most boring fleck of grey paint on the most boring picture known to man and get like two people discussing it? Or maybe you'll sell the world's best book that one can not purchase or even find for love nor money again and drive me up the god-damned wall when it turns out it's not available on the Kindle Store?
    Rym will probably do that, but I won't. I will be sure to be clubbing books that are for sale and are awesome. Just look at the list of book club selections, and separate the ones I have picked from the ones Rym has picked.

    My picks so far: WWZ, Locke Lamora, HHG2G, Kavalier and Clay, Earthsea.
    Rym so far: Hyperspace, Golden Apples of the Sun, Steppenwolf, Farewell to Arms, Snow Crash

    It's a dichotomy as wide as the Grand Canyon.
  • edited December 2010

    My picks so far: WWZ, Locke Lamora, HHG2G, Kavalier and Clay, Earthsea.
    Rym so far: Hyperspace, Golden Apples of the Sun, Steppenwolf, Farewell to Arms, Snow Crash
    It's almost like you two are separate people with your own tastes instead of some hive-minded two-headed hydra.
    Post edited by Neito on
  • edited December 2010
    It's almost like you two are separate people with your own tastes instead of some hive-minded two-headed hydra.
    Wasn't that their character in that Valiant Denim radio drama?
    Post edited by Walker on
  • I really gave up on Scott's opinion on books ever since his review of Hitchhikers Guide ;-p
  • I really gave up on Scott's opinion on books ever since his review of Hitchhikers Guide ;-p
    I rely on Scott's recommendations of comics. I have yet to be led astray.
  • I rely on Scott's recommendations of comics. I have yet to be led astray.
    Generally I only take his positive reviews serious.
  • a1sa1s
    edited December 2010
    TL;DR
    I guess it is unreadable.
    I actually liked this book. I read few books. Sunk Costs are a bitch.
    1. I think WWZ is a disaster story. I do not think it is a horror story.
    2. The author tries his best to have plausible military. The author fails.
    3. [irrelevant]
    4. [ditto]
    (all quotes edited for brevity)
    Post edited by a1s on
  • The thing to keep in mind is that the author was trying to be consistent with his previous book, which is mentioned in WWZ. He presents a very likely scenario with regards to how the American military in particular would handle the threat initially. We are still largely reliant upon the concept of Shock and Awe, and Brooks presents a realistic, if not likely, consequence of a failure to understand that this enemy cannot be shocked or awed. The rest, like forming a square, using WWI style weapons, and all that other stuff was just self indulgence to show how he was right in his previous book.

    But, as I say, "science fiction" (yes I made the air quotes) can be ignored.
  • Hello, my name is AaronC and I liked World War Z.

    I admit it, I liked it, not as much as LoLL, but it was enjoyable, except for the stupid airforce officer bit. Other than that, it was fun enough.

    Thankfully I'm reading Agincourt to meet my quota of intellectually challenging books.
  • I think this really is a great example of one major thing that separates Rym and myself from most geeks/nerds. That is that we are extremely capable of detecting, and not being affected by, shallow pandering. It's the "woo game" we refer to and see at every convention. Most geeks react extremely positively when they are pandered to. They also seem incapable of detecting it. Maybe some can detect it, but don't care. WWZ presents a wide variety of cool scenes and scenarios that are basically woo game material for zombie fans. ZOMG infinite ammo, so cool! ZOMG zombies owning the awesome military technology in Yonkers, so cool! The fact that we see right through this sort of thing is the primary, but not the only, factor that sets our taste so far apart from the majority of our geek bretheren.
    Ladies and Gentlemen: The Geek Hipster. He really, really needs for you to see that his tastes are far more refined than yours.
  • Ladies and Gentlemen: The Geek Hipster. He really, really needs for you to see that his tastes are far more refined than yours.
    Did you not realize this when you saw my monacle? Oh right, you didn't, because I have perfect eyesight! Yeah, I'm just better than everyone.
  • edited December 2010
    Yeah, I'm just better than everyone.
    At growing fungus on your body and losing hair.

    //zing
    Post edited by Cremlian on
  • Yeah, I'm just better than everyone.
    At growing fungus on your body and losing hair.

    //zing
    Losing hair? Pictures, please.

    Would it offend Scott's geek hipster sensibility if we started calling him Professor X?
  • Yeah, I'm just better than everyone.
    At growing fungus on your body and losing hair.

    //zing
    Losing hair? Pictures, please.

    Would it offend Scott's geek hipster sensibility if we started calling him Professor X?
    I'm probably just going to shave it off in the spring. I'm hoping to be a little more like Mark Messier and not so much the Charles Xavier, but I'll take the psychic powers if I can't have my name on the Stanley Cup.
  • I think this really is a great example of one major thing thatseparates Rym and myself from most geeks/nerds. That is that we are extremely capable of detecting, and not being affected by, shallow pandering. It's the "woo game" we refer to and see at every convention. Most geeks react extremely positively when they are pandered to. They also seem incapable of detecting it. Maybe some can detect it, but don't care. WWZ presents a wide variety of cool scenes and scenarios that are basically woo game material for zombie fans. ZOMG infinite ammo, so cool! ZOMG zombies owning the awesome military technology in Yonkers, so cool!The fact that we see right through this sort of thing is the primary, but not the only, factor that sets our taste so far apart from the majority of our geek bretheren.
    Ladies and Gentlemen: The Geek Hipster. He really, really needs for you to see that his tastes are far more refined than yours.
    High five.
  • edited December 2010
    Yeah, I'm just better than everyone.
    At growing fungus on your body and losing hair.

    //zing
    Losing hair? Pictures, please.

    Would it offend Scott's geek hipster sensibility if we started calling him Professor X?
    I'm probably just going to shave it off in the spring. I'm hoping to be a little more like Mark Messier and not so much the Charles Xavier, but I'll take the psychic powers if I can't have my name on the Stanley Cup.
    Think more along the lines of Bozo the Clown.

    Hair loss is a prime indicator of aging. I thought Scott was always going to be a smart young person.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • edited December 2010
    Ladies and Gentlemen: The Geek Hipster. He really, really needs for you to see that his tastes are far more refined than yours.
    High five.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • edited December 2010
    Hair loss is a prime indicator of aging.
    Really though Joe, it's a genetic defect, because some people lose their hair at 18 and others at 60. So while it happens as you get older it is not connected to any particular age and therefore can't really indicate aging. It really just means Scott is defective.
    Post edited by Cremlian on
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