I know he's not going to say it, but the reason people think of it as different is because it was white people.
Yeah, which is why we didn't go into Somalia...oh wait we did. Yeah...that turned out real well.
EDIT: I'm curious, how would establishing a no-fly zone and conducting a sustained air campaign help end the Rwandan genocide? What key infrastructure targets would you hit in order to prevent the mass killings? Which uniformed belligerents would you engage?
I know he's not going to say it, but the reason people think of it as different is because it was white people.
Yeah, which is why we didn't go into Somalia...oh wait we did. Yeah...that turned out real well.
Just because it doesn't always work does it mean you should never try? If you try and fail with one strategy, does it mean you should never try again even with a different strategy? At the very least you can pick and choose to try when the odds of success are high.
Why would he state what he thought concrete steps would be? The people of Egypt will say when concrete steps have been made not President Obama.
The people have voiced demands, and Mubarak hasn't really made progress.
You state a concrete step to issue a challenge. "You want your people to be free? Are you committed to this? OK, how about letting them form political parties?" You publicly force his hand and make him actually move towards something.
Really? so there was not a failure of a government either inept or in transition to prevent the genocide of a particular group of people along ethic or tribal lines?
I know he's not going to say it, but the reason people think of it as different is because it was white people.
Ridiculous.
No, it is different because there was a legitimate chance for stability in Bosnia if proper military direction was applied there. Bosnia was surrounded by developed European nations with stable governments and currencies, with ample opportunities for trade and economic stability. It had a developed infrastructure to cater to its ample population, which was not spread all the fuck out over a tropical countryside, did not rely on subsistence farming, and was not a cash crop culture. Bosnia was not tribal, nor did it have incredibly low education standards.
In short, there was hope that U.N. intervention could shove Bosnia back on a course that it could handle with self-determinism. Far more muscle and management would be required to do that in Rwanda.
EDIT: I'm curious, how would establishing a no-fly zone and conducting a sustained air campaign help end the Rwandan genocide? What key infrastructure targets would you hit in order to prevent the mass killings?
No, it is different because there was a legitimate chance for stability in Bosnia if proper military direction was applied there. Bosnia was surrounded by developed European nations with stable governments and currencies, with ample opportunities for trade and economic stability. It had a developed infrastructure to cater to its ample population, which was not spread all the fuck out over a tropical countryside, did not rely on subsistence farming, and was not a cash crop culture. Bosnia was not tribal, nor did it have incredibly low education standards.
In short, there was hope that U.N. intervention could shove Bosnia back on a course that it could handle with self-determinism. Far more muscle and management would be required to do that in Rwanda.
That's fine, but we still could have done something, established safe areas for food distribution and other humanitarian aid using US/UN/NATO forces to enforce the peace in those sectors.
EDIT: I'm curious, how would establishing a no-fly zone and conducting a sustained air campaign help end the Rwandan genocide? What key infrastructure targets would you hit in order to prevent the mass killings? Which uniformed belligerents would you engage?
EDIT: I'm curious, how would establishing a no-fly zone and conducting a sustained air campaign help end the Rwandan genocide? What key infrastructure targets would you hit in order to prevent the mass killings?
The King of Jordan took pre-emptive action as the protests spread into his nation. He dismissed the cabinet, is forming a new government, and is calling for them to implement immediate reforms.
This is really significant. The Egyptian revolution hasn't actually succeeded yet, but it seems to be emboldening other populations in the Middle East.
What happens if the protesters actually succeed? Egypt is a relatively modern nation with a strong military; to have its populace actually topple the government would likely send a message to other Middle Eastern nations - one that says that they can fight and win.
I have a feeling this could shake out to be one of the most significant occurrences in our recent history.
While many of these movements eventually failed, they were the opening salvos in the modernization of Europe. Imagine how differently 1848 would have progressed if the people in France and the people in Germany could see what was happening and realize how much in common they truly had in their struggle for political rights.
An unprecedented Internet cutoff remains in place in Egypt Tuesday. But Google announced it has created a way for Twitter users to post to the micro-blogging site by dialing a phone number and leaving a voicemail.
Forgive my ignorance here, but what was the mechanism by which Egypt managed to neuter the Internet, and how can it be avoided here? A time in which the government can stop communication is a dark time indeed.
Forgive my ignorance here, but what was the mechanism by which Egypt managed to neuter the Internet, and how can it be avoided here? A time in which the government can stop communication is a dark time indeed.
Basically threatening all independent ISPs in the country. All ISPs report to one government agency, which gives out licenses. If you don't fall in line with the government Chancey's demands, then you get shut down. More detail in this article. I find it comical that Joe Lieberman (aka: That dude who shills for insurance companies in his state; Derpy McDerpson) actually wants the same thing to be available in the US. You know, just in case we get attacked...or in case republicans get into power again and want to crush any resistance.
what was the mechanism by which Egypt managed to neuter the Internet
Hardware and software vendors provided the mechanisms, which were required to be put in place by ISPs and other institutions. It is much like how Cisco helped China build their great censorship firewall. Government mandate + vendor complicity = widespread censorship.
Forgive my ignorance here, but what was the mechanism by which Egypt managed to neuter the Internet, and how can it be avoided here? A time in which the government can stop communication is a dark time indeed.
Egypt went to the ISPs and took control of the routers. People who were clearly intelligent IT people basically erased Egypt from the Internet. We can a least be thankful they did it "the right way" not ruining any Internet for anyone else. Traffic that previously went through Egypt is now routed around Egypt with no problem.
How can it be avoided here? It can't. There are very few ISPs. Our networks are physically structured in a hierarchy. The government just has to exert enough force on the few ISPs to force them to cut off service. By only hitting a few chokepoints at AT&T;/Verizon/Sprint/etc. we will be cut off.
What can we do about it? We need to make a citizen-powered mesh network. We're currently trying to figure it out. Basically we have to develop a wireless system that breaks all kinds of FCC rules. However, since the system is only to be used in emergency situations, we don't care. We only have to use it illegally long enough to test it and make sure it works.Then we make sure every geek has an antenna in the closet waiting for the day we need to use it.
While many of these movements eventually failed, they were the opening salvos in the modernization of Europe. Imagine how differently 1848 would have progressed if the people in France and the people in Germany could see what was happening and realize how much in common they truly had in their struggle for political rights.
This is precisely what I was thinking. I look back at the Iranian "revolution" and I think of it as the first bubble that rises to the surface before water begins to boil. It looks like we're headed for boiling. Perhaps not now, but easily within the next decade.
Internet Censorship in Egypt: a humble action from FDN
According to this news article, it appears that last night the egyptian governing instances ordered the egyptian Internet service providers to shut down their international interconnexions, and with them the rest of the Internet.
This action was frighteningly efficient, as today the Internet "unlearned" how to reach Egypt and it is no longer possible to communicate with the egyptian people by email, forum, usenet, or any other IP-based technology.
Following this, this morning SMS services seem to have also been shut down thereby depriving the egyption people of any electronic mean of communcation.
For this reason, and because this is definitely a open attack from a state against Internet, FDN has decided to open a small window on the network by giving access to anyone interested a modem access account.
This way, anyone in Egypt who has access to a analog phone line and can call France is able to connect to the network using the following number: +33 1 72 89 01 50 (login: toto, password: toto).
We hope by this action to contribute to the freedom of expression of the egyptian people and allow them to keep a connection with the rest of the world. Finally let's emphasize that FDN only offers a technical solution.
WHAT THE FUCK WHY DID THE US NEWS INTERRUPT HIS SPEECH WITH THEIR BULLSHIT COMMENTARY! WHAT THE FUCK!?!?
AJE Free streamin'. I wish the AJE D.C. branch would get some people to report on US domestic issues. I would love to see them grilling the congressfolk.
I tuned in to AJE when Rym posted, but I was a little late for most of the speech. Still, it seems Mubarak didn't say much of note, just that he wouldn't run for re-election.
Comments
EDIT: I'm curious, how would establishing a no-fly zone and conducting a sustained air campaign help end the Rwandan genocide? What key infrastructure targets would you hit in order to prevent the mass killings? Which uniformed belligerents would you engage?
You state a concrete step to issue a challenge. "You want your people to be free? Are you committed to this? OK, how about letting them form political parties?" You publicly force his hand and make him actually move towards something.
No, it is different because there was a legitimate chance for stability in Bosnia if proper military direction was applied there. Bosnia was surrounded by developed European nations with stable governments and currencies, with ample opportunities for trade and economic stability. It had a developed infrastructure to cater to its ample population, which was not spread all the fuck out over a tropical countryside, did not rely on subsistence farming, and was not a cash crop culture. Bosnia was not tribal, nor did it have incredibly low education standards.
In short, there was hope that U.N. intervention could shove Bosnia back on a course that it could handle with self-determinism. Far more muscle and management would be required to do that in Rwanda.
What happens if the protesters actually succeed? Egypt is a relatively modern nation with a strong military; to have its populace actually topple the government would likely send a message to other Middle Eastern nations - one that says that they can fight and win.
I have a feeling this could shake out to be one of the most significant occurrences in our recent history.
While many of these movements eventually failed, they were the opening salvos in the modernization of Europe. Imagine how differently 1848 would have progressed if the people in France and the people in Germany could see what was happening and realize how much in common they truly had in their struggle for political rights.
Is it outside the realm of possibility this continues and transforms the whole Middle East? As in, "We can leave now."
I find it comical that Joe Lieberman (aka: That dude who shills for insurance companies in his state; Derpy McDerpson) actually wants the same thing to be available in the US. You know, just in case we get attacked...or in case republicans get into power again and want to crush any resistance.
How can it be avoided here? It can't. There are very few ISPs. Our networks are physically structured in a hierarchy. The government just has to exert enough force on the few ISPs to force them to cut off service. By only hitting a few chokepoints at AT&T;/Verizon/Sprint/etc. we will be cut off.
What can we do about it? We need to make a citizen-powered mesh network. We're currently trying to figure it out. Basically we have to develop a wireless system that breaks all kinds of FCC rules. However, since the system is only to be used in emergency situations, we don't care. We only have to use it illegally long enough to test it and make sure it works.Then we make sure every geek has an antenna in the closet waiting for the day we need to use it.
I believe that is us coming down on one side of this thing. Al-Jazeera is saying that Mubarak will make an announcement to that effect shortly.