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Borders is Going Down

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  • The book itself is published by Luke and Jared. ;^)
    Jared has nothing to do with Burning Wheel.
  • There is a difference between marketing a continuing show or a game system and marketing a book.
    The game system isn't anything more than a book. The book itself is published by Luke and Jared. ;^)
    Isn't anything more than a book? You use it as a reference again and again. Anyone who can tell me they use their novels as often as they use their BW books isn't actively RPing. They also aren't consumed the same way.
  • They also aren't consumed the same way.
    But, they're edited and published the same way.
  • They also aren't consumed the same way.
    But, they're edited and published the same way.
    If you don't think the way a product is used by the consumer doesn't influence the way it is marketed, you are not as smart as I thought you were.
  • If you don't think the way a product is used by the consumer doesn't influence the way it is marketed, you are not as smart as I thought you were.
    But you said we didn't have any knowledge of publishing, which wasn't true. This is a book which was printed and published, distributed to bookstores and gaming stores, and sold online.

    We've also done similar things for various comics. We caused Princess Tutu to sell out at more than one anime convention. I'm fairly certain the book club has driven at least some sales for authors like Scott Lynch and R. Scott Bakker. ;^)
  • We've also done similar things for various comics. We caused Princess Tutu to sell out at more than one anime convention. I'm fairly certain the book club has driven at least some sales for authors like Scott Lynch and R. Scott Bakker. ;^)
    And those authors didn't even ask for it! I've seen plenty of authors make the rounds and get interviews on a pile of podcasts and blogs that hit their target audience. You don't need a publisher to set that up. You just have to use Google and write some e-mails.
  • As hard as it may be for you to believe, Scott, not everybody is like you.
    And that's why everybody is all grumpy!
    Goddamnit Scott, now you owe me a new keyboard.
  • edited February 2011
    But you said we didn't have any knowledge of publishing, which wasn't true.
    Scott doesn't have any firsthand knowledge of publishing his own book. He is claiming it's super easy to publish and promote your own book while not having ever done it. And I didn't say both of you, I specifically was talking to Scott.

    Scott, you think that finding and setting up those podcast interviews is easy? You think a rigorous convention circuit to promote your work is easy? There are many individual things that seem trivial, but doing enough of them to effectively promote your work is tougher than you think.
    Post edited by Nuri on
  • It was really, really easy to make Burning Wheel vastly more popular than it was.
    How much more popular did you make Burning Wheel?

    Seriously. Did you ever get numbers from Luke?
  • Seriously. Did you ever get numbers from Luke?
    No, he never told us. But, here are some publicly available and very sad numbers.

    http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/index.php?title=Publication_List

    At that rate of publication, with only a few thousand Burning Wheels, even just the FRC is a significant percentage of sales.
  • edited February 2011
    with only a few thousand Burning Wheels, even just the FRC is a significant percentage of sales.
    How many copies of BWR revised have been sold to the entire FRC? 10? 20? 50?

    From my count, there have been 8157 copies of BWR printed to-date. Let's say that he's sold, I dunno, 7000 of those. I have no idea how many have actually been sold.

    Assuming that the entire FRC is responsible for 50 sales of BWR, that is 0.7% of all sales.

    I think you and I have a different definition of "significant."

    EDIT: There are a couple of reasons to go through a publisher.

    1) Effective advertising takes time. As the creator, your time is better spent creating.

    2) Publishers have connections. You don't. They know people who are willing to trust them on new things. You have friends. Publisher wins.
    Post edited by TheWhaleShark on
  • Come on guys, Scott is obviously trolling here. If not, Rym's Assertion proves its worth once more.
  • Come on guys, Scott is obviously trolling here. If not, Rym's Assertion proves its worth once more.
    You guys aren't making it easy for me.
  • Now I'm confused guys. Do I pirate the new episodes of Justified and buy the DVDs of Mannix or the other way around?
  • Liquidation starts today. See the PW daily here. Although, I'm not sure the sales will be that great until some time has passed.
  • As I was saying somewhere, when a company liquidates their own store, it's usually at totally awesome prices. When it goes to a Liquidator, it totally sucks balls.
  • Well originally my local Borders was not on the list of initial closures.

    I just got an email from Borders saying they are closing down. /sadpanda

    Well I know where I'm going today after work. Going straight to the knitting section.
  • My Borders is staying open.
  • My Borders is staying open.
    Most, if not all, of the Borders in Australia are Staying open.
  • On the topic of book piracy and piracy in general, I see a torrent tracker as a library. Due to technological advances, I get to enjoy a vast wealth of knowlege and entertainment for free, and if it's good enough, I'd like to purchase my own copy.
  • edited March 2011
    On the topic of book piracy and piracy in general, I see a torrent tracker as a library. Due to technological advances, I get to enjoy a vast wealth of knowledge and entertainment for free, and if it's good enough, I'd like to purchase my own copy.
    Libraries pay for the books though taxes most of the time and you contribute to the purchase of the book. In return the library offers the service of letting you borrow the book for a set amount of time. The torrent however no money is given to the rights holder until you make the purchase afterwards. This is the reason some authors are just releasing books formatted for the kindle/nook. They may not get the large amount from a hard copy but they make up for selling more at a lower cost. The other option is for them to use a print on demand service for collectors since this model excludes them. The reduced cost makes the people who download pirated copies more likely to just purchase the book at a greatly reduced cost.

    Chain bookstores lose out on this model and I think that may be a good thing in some ways. Smaller shops could open up to deal with people looking for specific kind of books depending on the area. I think for most of the major retailers a storefront isn't really needed and isn't profitable in all areas.
    Post edited by Alan on
  • My Borders is staying open.
    Slut.
  • My Borders is staying open.
  • My Borders is staying open.
  • edited March 2011
    I couldn't really care less to be perfectly honest. Sure if I really want to dick around and have a classic experience of just randomly perusing through shelves of books, Borders is the shit. But Amazon undercuts Borders' prices on almost everything. I mostly buy manga and other assorted nerdy books, and Amazon has a better deal the marjority of the time. If Amazon doesn't, Righstuf does. I haven't done any series shopping at a Borders in roughly 2 years now...
    make sure to hit up the clearance blowouts
    Consumerist had an article awhile ago about how Amazon still rapes Borders even during their store closing blowouts.

    Sorry, but Amazon is the king of books. Prove me wrong.
    Post edited by Dkong on
  • Amazon still rapes Borders
    Amazon has sex with Borders against its will!? Certainly charges must be brought.
  • edited March 2011
    Amazon still rapes Borders
    Amazon has sex with Borders against its will!? Certainly charges must be brought.
    Thank you for your awesome, mature, and intelligent insight into this conversation! asshat
    Post edited by Dkong on
  • I've just been kinda irritated with how the word rape gets used casually lately. Don't mind me though, I'm in a poor mood.
  • edited March 2011
    I suppose I use the term quite loosely, but for the past 5 or so years I've been using definition #2 on this list.
    So as far as I'm concerned it's about as bad as saying "that videogame is so gay" if you just mean that you dislike the game.
    Post edited by Dkong on
  • So as far as I'm concerned it's about as bad as saying "that videogame is so gay"
    So, to my way of thinking, still pretty bad.
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