With all this love for Batman, I wonder why his Marvel Universe counterpart, The Punisher, doesn't get more appreciation?
I have an autobuy with the Punisher if it meet one of the following criteria:
1. written by Garth Ennis 2. drawn by Steve Dillon 3. The Punisher is a Frankenstein monster.
Welcome Back, Frank is the first comic I ever bought and also one of my favorites.
That being said, Batman is a better character. He is sometimes a human and sometimes has human problems. The only problems the Punisher has are injuries which he just mans through or a lack of resources forcing him to Rambo people with improvised weapons like Polar Bears. The only character development the Punisher ever gets is the further unearthing of how deep his hatred of criminals is and how far he is willing to go to kill them. He is an aggressively one dimensional character to the point of absurdity; he is a force of nature in the Marvel universe. Everything good in Punisher comics surrounding the Punisher himself. The criminals who think they're going to be the one to get him and then get killed by the Punisher. The vigilanties who think "I can truck with the Punisher" who fuck it up and then GET KILL BY THE PUNISHER.
I've never read a Punisher comic. I have, however, read many Marvel comics where the Punisher shows up. Every time he shows up, the primary hero he is "assisting" basically just considers Frank to be a hassle. Spider-Man is like "ah fuck, now not only do I have to stop the bad guy, I have to make sure Frank doesn't murder 1000 people." Wolverine is like, "I'm trying to be all stealthy, while this dude walks down the street carrying an armory around in plain sight." He's always that guy who tries to help, but since he only does it his own way, he just causes more trouble.
That being said, Batman is a better character. He is sometimes a human and sometimes has human problems. The only problems the Punisher has are injuries which he just mans through or a lack of resources forcing him to Rambo people with improvised weapons like Polar Bears. The only character development the Punisher ever gets is the further unearthing of how deep his hatred of criminals is and how far he is willing to go to kill them. He is an aggressively one dimensional character to the point of absurdity; he is a force of nature in the Marvel universe. Everything good in Punisher comics surrounding the Punisher himself. The criminals who think they're going to be the one to get him and then get killed by the Punisher. The vigilanties who think "I can truck with the Punisher" who fuck it up and then GET KILL BY THE PUNISHER.
The best Punisher story ever written - (Yes, that was a real comic.)
I've never read a Punisher comic. I have, however, read many Marvel comics where the Punisher shows up. Every time he shows up, the primary hero he is "assisting" basically just considers Frank to be a hassle. Spider-Man is like "ah fuck, now not only do I have to stop the bad guy, I have to make sure Frank doesn't murder 1000 people." Wolverine is like, "I'm trying to be all stealthy, while this dude walks down the street carrying an armory around in plain sight." He's always that guy who tries to help, but since he only does it his own way, he just causes more trouble.
With all this love for Batman, I wonder why his Marvel Universe counterpart, The Punisher, doesn't get more appreciation?
I don't know if that's a very apt comparison - Batman is rich, doesn't kill, doesn't use guns - generally, at least, though there are occasions - and generally fights for good, because he wants to prevent crime, as his parents were victims of crime. Punisher is usually not rich, his entire purpose is to kill, and fights fire with fire - essentially, his goal is to kill criminals because criminals killed his family.
I'd say that Iron Man is more the Marvel Batman than Punisher, to be honest - he's another guy with infinite moneys - though more of a tendancy to lose it or lose control of it, how many stark corporations have we clocked up now? Stark Industries(Side note - Stark Industries, the original and the general status quo every time we get a reboot or the like, was founded In Byron Bay, in New South Wales), Stark Solutions, Stark\Fujikawa, Stark International, Stark Enterprises, Stark Resilient, he's holds onto companies like Michael J Fox holds on to...anything, really, but anyway - He fights for good, generally doesn't kill, and is fighting crime and evil for a motive other than revenge.
whoops. I should read the rest of the thread before I chime in.
With all this love for Batman, I wonder why his Marvel Universe counterpart, The Punisher, doesn't get more appreciation?
Doesn't he actually kill people while The Batman does not? I forget.
I would say that Tony Stark fits better as Batman's counterpart.
What about Moon Knight? In the Marvel Universe, Reed Richards also has access to pretty much infinite monies, but really doesn't seem to care about fighting evil so much as he does exploring some new dimension or some such and then getting into an inadvertent fight there.
I've always been partial to Nick Fury, Captain America, and the Fantastic Four. You know who I really don't like? The Atom. His origin and use of powers are so silly that I can't even suspend my disbelief in a medium where I'm prepared to read stories about a guy who can shoot laser beams out of his eyes.
One other thing - I'll bet the right story could rehabilitate Superman just as Batman was rehabbed. Scoot mentioned Neal Adams, but I was kiving through those times and Adams didn't have nearly as much of a rehab effect as Frank Miller. No, Miller pretty much rehabbed Bats by himself. Now, at the time, everyone was kind of looking on in disbelief, because no one could really believe that Bats could ever be cool - just as now Superman is generally believed to be incapable of being cool.
There was a very good non-comic Superman novel a few years ago called Up, Up, and Away. It was basically Superman during the 30s (when he first appeared, anyway) with no backstory baggage. He didn't really know much about himself or his powers. He just kind of wandered through Depression-era America and beat up corrupt businessmen, politicians, domestic abusers, and the like - just like he did in comics when he first appeared.
Batman has been tops growing up with B:TAS. Tim Drake's a second whether it be as Robin or Red Robin; just always been a fan of the character and especially the changes the past number years. For a not so popular character, Animal cause the Morrison run was amazing and so memorable.
I think Batman Grew up well before that, with works like Year one/Two(apart from that goofy "THE GUN THAT KILLED MY PARENTS!" splash panel), and The Dark Knight returns, however, I think that B:TAS had an equally important role - by showing that a Batman Cartoon didn't have to be goofy and campy, and you could have a kid's show without being stupid or pandering.
Side note - A friend of mine's son is Terrified of Batman. She generally isn't impressed when I mention this means he'll grow up to be a Criminal.
I think Batman Grew up well before that, with works like Year one/Two(apart from that goofy "THE GUN THAT KILLED MY PARENTS!" splash panel), and The Dark Knight returns, however, I think that B:TAS had an equally important role - by showing that a Batman Cartoon didn't have to be goofy and campy, and you could have a kid's show without being stupid or pandering.
Oh I meant personally when I was growing up, B:TAS was the reason he became my favourite superhero.
Oh I meant personally when I was growing up, B:TAS was the reason he became my favourite superhero.
Sorry, My mistake. I keep forgetting young people exist. Though, B:TAS is a damn good show to grow up with.
Side note - B:TAS is responsible for many characters now in the Main Canon, and the re-interpretation and re-imagining of many old characters which were somewhat obscure, but are now popular.
Comments
1. written by Garth Ennis
2. drawn by Steve Dillon
3. The Punisher is a Frankenstein monster.
Welcome Back, Frank is the first comic I ever bought and also one of my favorites.
That being said, Batman is a better character. He is sometimes a human and sometimes has human problems. The only problems the Punisher has are injuries which he just mans through or a lack of resources forcing him to Rambo people with improvised weapons like Polar Bears. The only character development the Punisher ever gets is the further unearthing of how deep his hatred of criminals is and how far he is willing to go to kill them. He is an aggressively one dimensional character to the point of absurdity; he is a force of nature in the Marvel universe. Everything good in Punisher comics surrounding the Punisher himself. The criminals who think they're going to be the one to get him and then get killed by the Punisher. The vigilanties who think "I can truck with the Punisher" who fuck it up and then GET KILL BY THE PUNISHER.
(Yes, that was a real comic.)
The Punisher Teams Up with Spider-Man
The Punisher Teams Up with The Hulk
Garth Ennis was very mean to the other Underwear Perverts.
I've always been partial to Nick Fury, Captain America, and the Fantastic Four. You know who I really don't like? The Atom. His origin and use of powers are so silly that I can't even suspend my disbelief in a medium where I'm prepared to read stories about a guy who can shoot laser beams out of his eyes.
One other thing - I'll bet the right story could rehabilitate Superman just as Batman was rehabbed. Scoot mentioned Neal Adams, but I was kiving through those times and Adams didn't have nearly as much of a rehab effect as Frank Miller. No, Miller pretty much rehabbed Bats by himself. Now, at the time, everyone was kind of looking on in disbelief, because no one could really believe that Bats could ever be cool - just as now Superman is generally believed to be incapable of being cool.
There was a very good non-comic Superman novel a few years ago called Up, Up, and Away. It was basically Superman during the 30s (when he first appeared, anyway) with no backstory baggage. He didn't really know much about himself or his powers. He just kind of wandered through Depression-era America and beat up corrupt businessmen, politicians, domestic abusers, and the like - just like he did in comics when he first appeared.
EDIT: D'oh!
Side note - A friend of mine's son is Terrified of Batman. She generally isn't impressed when I mention this means he'll grow up to be a Criminal.
Side note - B:TAS is responsible for many characters now in the Main Canon, and the re-interpretation and re-imagining of many old characters which were somewhat obscure, but are now popular.