TV Production(VGA Scan Reverse)

Mycroft000

I'm having trouble finding the information I need on how to do scan reversal into a computer monitor in order to have a "mirror" image on the monitor without having to spend several hundred dollars on an in-line component to flip the image. Is there somewhere besides google that I should look for that?

Matt

Maybe ask this sort of question using SuperUser on Stack Exchange?

Mycroft000

Unfortunately they have no answers. It looks like I need to find out if my monitor is capable of being opened up and changed with either a wiring change, or if it's got a technician's menu that will allow for that.

Apreche

Why do you want to do this?

GauntletWizard

Why do you want to do this?

I'm reminded of the X-Y problem that was on Reddit the other day.

Here's perhaps a better solution: Go buy a moderately recent Nvidia card, if you're not already running one. Their drivers allow you to do this kind of flip (either in software, or as a chipset feature, I'm not certain).

Rym

y u want do this?

Mycroft000

I'm fabricating my own camera mounted teleprompter unit. That requires a piece of glass with special coatings on each side, mounted at a 45 degree angle, a monitor with the image horizontally flipped for reflecting in the proper orientation. Professionally manufactured teleprompters have the mirror imaging built into them, but that, combined with the machined aluminum mounting solutions make quality units cost in the range of $4000-5000. I fully intend to invest in that eventually, but in order to get the business running, I need something that is affordable in the meantime.

Rym

Many video cards can do a 180 flip. You could also come up with software to present a flipped image.

Apreche

Many video cards can do a 180 flip. You could also come up with software to present a flipped image.

Yes, there are many other easier and better ways to do what you need to do.

Mycroft000

The software solutions that I've found leave me with a very stuttery image, no smooth motion at all. I should have included that I'm using laptop computers for this so unless there is a way to use desktop video cards with a laptop, I'm pretty much out of luck there too. The laptop that I'm using does have the ability to flip vertically, and rotate 90 degrees left or right, but none of those do me any good, it actually has to be a mirror image.

Apreche

The software solutions that I've found leave me with a very stuttery image, no smooth motion at all. I should have included that I'm using laptop computers for this so unless there is a way to use desktop video cards with a laptop, I'm pretty much out of luck there too. The laptop that I'm using does have the ability to flip vertically, and rotate 90 degrees left or right, but none of those do me any good, it actually has to be a mirror image.

You have to write software yourself. That should be much easier than trying to fuck with VGA.

Mycroft000

The software solutions that I've found leave me with a very stuttery image, no smooth motion at all. I should have included that I'm using laptop computers for this so unless there is a way to use desktop video cards with a laptop, I'm pretty much out of luck there too. The laptop that I'm using does have the ability to flip vertically, and rotate 90 degrees left or right, but none of those do me any good, it actually has to be a mirror image.

You have to write software yourself. That should be much easier than trying to fuck with VGA.

I don't have even the most rudimentary programming skills. The value of the time I would spend trying to do that myself would be more than just coughing up the $450-500 for a hardware scan reversal device.

Apreche

I don't have even the most rudimentary programming skills. The value of the time I would spend trying to do that myself would be more than just coughing up the $450-500 for a hardware scan reversal device.

Do you have analog signal processing skills? You could learn to program something this simple in a very short time. You could probably do it very easily with some HTML and javascript in a browser.

Mycroft000

My skills are all developed from working with audio and video equipment, I've never had any need to learn any programming. I do simple repairs on mixers, cameras, audio and video cable, and lighting. Give me camera/video deck menus, camera control units, video matrices, I can run the A/V for a full convention, and more. Ask me to do anything beyond the HTML buttons available on here and I'm immediately out of my depth.

Would it take someone with zero background in programming more than 14 hours to learn what I need, then write the program? I'm overworked enough as it is, and hardly get any downtime, so what downtime I do get is valuable to me. So if it would take longer than that, then I either need to find someone who I can pay to do it for me, or just cough up the $550 to buy one of these: http://www.teleprompters.com/VGA-mirror.html

Rym

OK, the short answer is that there is no way to do this in hardware that you would be able to pull off. It's not like you can just reverse the pins and expect the scanning to be reversed. You'd need an active device performing signal processing. Hardware is the wrong solution: the devices you see for sale are overpriced, to be sure, but still far more complex than you realize.

Your best best, as I said originally, is software. Drivers specifically. If the computer you're using is truly that slow/old and can't do it, you can still for far less than $550 buy/build a small computer that has an nVidia video card with flip capabilities.

You just need to display text, correct? Find or write some software that displays scrolling text, and flip it. It will take you more than 14 hours to learn to program most likely, but it would save you money and teach you a valuable skill. You have to be more creative. If you really can't find a software/driver solution, and you really can't buy a better small computer for this, and you also can't use a mirror or set of mirrors to manage the flip, then you've eliminated all of your options and won't find any further advice anywhere.

Apreche

Even if I told you the hardware solution, it still involves programming. Only instead of writing a program that displays reversed text scrolling down a screen you would have to write an embedded analog signal processing application that flips a VGA signal. Guess which one is easier?

Churba

If you can use an online solution, Try this.

If you can't have that, then try Manual Works Prompter.

They're pretty good - I've used both, but it might not work for what you're looking for, I'd advise you to test it before deciding with any finality.

Matt

Caveman method: Build a box. Put the monitor inside on its back/side and use a two-way mirror placed on a 45 degree angle to bounce the flipped image onto a new "screen".

Mycroft000

The hardware solution that I would have been looking for is that some(very few but they do exist) LCD panels do have the capability of being flipped. What I don't know is whether or not that is something that is set by dip switches or if I would need a manufacturers engineering menu to make those changes. I am aware that I can't simply switch pins to flip the text. Switching polarity like that works with CRT monitors, but I'm not using one.

I'm sure I could get a laptop that would be capable of doing this, but it would probably have to be a gaming laptop to have a video card capable of doing the flip, in which case, I'm back to being better off just buying the box to flip the image.

If you can use an online solution, Try this.

If you can't have that, then try Manual Works Prompter.

They're pretty good - I've used both, but it might not work for what you're looking for, I'd advise you to test it before deciding with any finality.

I use QPro from Autocue, which, while expensive actually works; all the inexpensive prompting software is unusable. I've tried numerous less expensive options for teleprompter software over the last year, but eventually came to the conclusion that the software that I've been using for 8 years is the best solution so I went ahead and made the investment there. It's already nearly paid for itself by saving me several hundred dollars on teleprompter computer rentals already.

I know that programming would be a valuable skill to know, but having said that, it's not something that interests me. I would much rather spend my time working in a field that pays me to do something that doesn't feel like work to me. Work in film and video is play for me.

Rym

Switching polarity like that works with CRT monitors, but I'm not using one.

You actually would switch the polarity on the scanning beam in a CRT? Really?

The hardware solution that I would have been looking for is that some(very few but they do exist) LCD panels do have the capability of being flipped

I am unaware of any. If you or the Internet was aware of one, then you should just buy that. There are no DIP switches on any consumer hardware I can think of that would do what you want.

You've basically asked an impossible question, having pre-eliminated all of the reasonable solutions.

Matt

Switching polarity like that works with CRT monitors, but I'm not using one.

You actually would switch the polarity on the scanning beam in a CRT? Really?

You just cut a hole in the top, plug in the CRT, and stick your hand in there to switch the beam around, right?

Bronzdragon

You could also just learn to read backwards.

It sounds like I'm making a joke, but I'm honestly not, getting up to a decent reading proficiency will take a week or so (if you practice daily). It would make a good party trick.

Apreche

You could also just learn to read backwards.

It sounds like I'm making a joke, but I'm honestly not, getting up to a decent reading proficiency will take a week or so (if you practice daily). It would make a good party trick.

I can read upside down, but not backwards.

Bronzdragon

I can read upside down, but not backwards.

Apreche

I can read upside down, but not backwards.

I can, but it's much harder than upside down.

nemurimasu

Put your text into an HTML file. Add some magic CSS rules and everything will be drawn mirrored. Example:
<html>
<head>
<style>
html {
-moz-transform: scale(-1,1);
-webkit-transform: scale(-1,1);
-o-transform: scale(-1,1);
-ms-filter: 'progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.BasicImage(mirror=1)';
}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<p>I'm backwards!</p>
</body>
</html>

You can also use a bookmarklet to flip any page just for fun . Copy this into the address bar or a bookmark(or into a UserScript for installation into an unsuspecting victim's browser).

javascript:(function(a){a.MozTransform=a.WebkitTransform=a.OTransform='scale(-1,1)';a.MsFilter="'progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.BasicImage(mirror=1)'";})(document.documentElement.style)

This should work in Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera, and Internet Explorer 8+. You can get support for older Internet Exploders by changing "-ms-filter" to just "filter", but you should really upgrade to IE 9 if you're using IE.

Mycroft000

I believe that's how the CRT teleprompt monitors I used at the broadcast video equipment rental house had been rewired. They have a switch added on the front of the monitor to allow for the scan to be standard or inverted.

I have tried a software solution for this from Realtimesoft.com called UltraMon, and it didn't allow for motion on screen without significant lag in the motion. If I could find anyone willing to add the feature to the video card drivers for the laptops I would happily pay for it.

I know now that I've asked an impossible question. However to me the reasonable solutions are to pay for someone else to do it, or get the pro equipment that I would prefer anyway. I would be open to taking out a business loan to purchase what I need, but the loan market is really difficult right now.

You could also just learn to read backwards.

It sounds like I'm making a joke, but I'm honestly not, getting up to a decent reading proficiency will take a week or so (if you practice daily). It would make a good party trick.

That is actually probably what I'm going to do between now and when I can purchase real prompter monitors or the VGA mirror device. The teleprompt software I use can mirror the text for me, but it does it on both the laptop screen and the external monitor.

Ruffas

[codes]

That should work quite nicely if you just make it big enough and animate it with CSS/javascript so that it scrolls at a readable speed.

Victor Frost

My god, you people. 5 seconds of googleing.

Churba

That is actually probably what I'm going to do between now and when I can purchase real prompter monitors or the VGA mirror device. The teleprompt software I use can mirror the text for me, but it does it on both the laptop screen and the external monitor.

Wait, can't you just set it up as a dual monitor, and then run the teleprompt maximized on one screen, and whatever else on the laptop screen? All you'd need then are some long cables. I'm sure there is a reason I'm wrong, but it seems like a decent idea.

Apreche

Why do you even need to reflect the monitor in a mirror? How about you just have the monitor and look directly at it? LCDs are thin and easily mounted.