This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.

When All Else Fails

edited September 2011 in Everything Else
I figured that if I were to get any brutal honest and scathing critique on my first video it would be from here. It's called When All Else Fails, It's based on my on-going series of mini essays questioning aspects of "geek culture", and episode one is all about what's wrong with Shadow The Hedgehog. I've learned my audio sucks and I'm working on a different mic technique to change that slightly. I talked a little too fast before so I'm going to go slower for numero two, and uh, anything else I hope I can learn from here.

Youtube link, Blip tv link.
«1

Comments

  • edited September 2011
    I'm sorry, but is your recorded quality really that bad? Or did you go a little overboard with the noise filter or something?

    Okay, after a hajillion edits, I'm just going to sum them up into one post
    • Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was the Gamecube re-release. The original was just Sonic Adventure 2.
    • You say that Shadow's death at the end of SA2 was rendered meaningless by the discovery of Shadow clones in Sonic Heroes. I don't see how this is the case. It doesn't matter if it was a clone or not. In a heroic sacrifice, it's not the loss that makes it heroic, it's the hero performing the action while understanding that it'll probably end in his/her death. It's the intent, not the sacrifice.
    • Maria was Gerald Robotnik's grand daughter, not his daughter.
    • *frustration* Look. A character can be dark without it being aimed at emo kids. The Punisher? Rorschach from The Watchmen? Batman?
    • Yes. They gave Shadow a gun. And you know what? It totally fits his character! He's a bad ass anti-hero.
    • Okay, here's the deal with Shadow: his ability to teleport, move at time bending speeds, et al, is all dependant on him having a chaos emerald! It was clearly spelled out in the cutscene after the first SA2 Hero boss battle (after City Escape) and is the reason why, in "Shadow the Hedgehog",THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS GET A CHAOS EMERALD. This is even before then end of the first level.
    • Yes, Sonic Heroes was gimmiky, but you can't use the mechanics of that game as an argument against Shadow as a character. Apples and oranges.
    • Knuckles USED to be Sonic's enemy (see Sonic the Hedgehog 3) but was never his rival. Knuckles filled the strong man segment of the character chart. As for Metal Sonic (not to be confused with Mecha Sonic, who appeared only in Sonic the Hedgehog 2), he made his first appearance in video game form in Sonic CD and in Anime form in the original "Sonic the Hedgehog: The Movie". In the anime movie, where he has his first speaking role, he actually believes he IS Sonic. In that sense, he is more akin to Bizarro of "Superman" than a rival. In his video game incarnations, he was always portrayed as Dr. Robotniks answer to Sonic's speed (until Sonic Heroes, where Metal Sonic decides to take over and ignore Robotnik), but was never Sonic's "rival". And enemy, sure, but never a rival. Shadow was Sonic's first true rival in that he possessed as much autonomy as Sonic as well as comparable skills.
    • As for his purpose as a character, my question is, "Does he need one?" Since I lack an Xbox360, I haven't had the opportunity to play the newer Sonic games but, from what I've read and seen online, Shadow has become a rouge-like character. While he and Sonic share may character attributes (strong sense of will, goes "where the wind takes them") they have many dissimilarities. Shadow is more calm and rational and, while they share a deep sense of loyalty to their friends, where sonic expresses his emotions very openly, Shadow keeps his guarded. In Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), when Mephiles tells him that humanity sealed Shadow away because of his capabilites, he still refuses to help Mephiles, indicating his true alignment as Neutral Good/Neutral.

    • You, sir, need to do your damn research when it comes to the Sonic universe. Especially when I'm around.
    Post edited by Victor Frost on
  • edited September 2011
    Sonic, I'm totally imagining you being Fluttershy in that one scene.
    Fluttershy would fall over fainting goat style if she could see me right now. I am FUMING over this guy's inaccuracies and ill supported arguments. On a scale, I'm somewhere between "Rapid dash Twilight" and "Nuttershy" right now. Knowing the value of my time is the only thing preventing me from making a video response, not only point out every inaccuracy, but to show him how recorded audio is supposed to sound. Instead I offer this picture of me fuming as portrayed by Michael Bay.

    image
    Post edited by Victor Frost on
  • You, sir, need to do your damn research when it comes to the Sonic universe. Especially when I'm around.
    Sonic, you're the man, but I couldn't help but read this entire post in a slurring, stereotypical, saliva-laden übernerd voice. Also, Sonic games are terrible.
  • Sonic Adventure 2 was alright.
  • edited September 2011
    Sonic, you're the man, but I couldn't help but read this entire post in a slurring, stereotypical, saliva-laden übernerd voice.
    That's okay. That's probably how my angry muttering sounded as I was writing it.
    Also, Sonic games are terrible.
    If by "Sonic games" you mean Sonic 3D, Sonic Shuffle, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic Unleashed (and maybe the physics in Sonic the Hedgehog 4), then yes. Otherwise, for everything up to Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) (I say "up to" because I have no experience with the games from then on), die in a fire.
    Post edited by Victor Frost on
  • edited September 2011
    If by "Sonic games" you mean Sonic Shuffle, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic Unleashed (and maybe the physics in Sonic the Hedgehog 4), then yes. Otherwise, die in a fire.
    I mean Sonic games.
    Post edited by Walker on
  • edited September 2011
    Well then, while I respect your opinion you, sir, may die in a fire.
    Post edited by Victor Frost on
  • Behind him is my car.
  • I'm sorry, but is your recorded quality really that bad? Or did you go a little overboard with the noise filter or something?
    All I did was slow it down slightly and then lower the slightly sped up vice to sound more like mine.
    The next installment is sounding a lot better now that I know what I'm doing.
    Okay, after a hajillion edits, I'm just going to sum them up into one post


    Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was the Gamecube re-release. The original was just Sonic Adventure 2.
    My mistake, It's what I've called it for years and old habits die hard. the gamecube version was the only one I've ever known.
    You say that Shadow's death at the end of SA2 was rendered meaningless by the discovery of Shadow clones in Sonic Heroes. I don't see how this is the case. It doesn't matter if it was a clone or not. In a heroic sacrifice, it's not the loss that makes it heroic, it's the hero performing the action while understanding that it'll probably end in his/her death. It's the intent, not the sacrifice.
    No I said it was rendered empty by the fact he was still sort of alive, nothing to do with his clones. I just added the clones were thrown in as well and amde the whole thing seem like a way to induce more ridiculous pathos from everyone;s favorite black hedgehog.
    Maria was Gerald Robotnik's grand daughter, not his daughter.
    Honest mistake, I forgot to double check and it's been a while since I played the games.
    *frustration* Look. A character can be dark without it being aimed at emo kids. The Punisher? Rorschach from The Watchmen? Batman?
    I'm aware, I never said all dark characters were, I'm saying Shadow was.
    Yes. They gave Shadow a gun. And you know what? It totally fits his character! He's a bad ass anti-hero.
    It's totally nonsensical and unnecessary. What does a super powerful chaos controlling hedgehog need a gun for? Anti-hero or not, he can kill with his bare hands, it's just a useless add on to make him grimmer and grittier.
    Okay, here's the deal with Shadow: his ability to teleport, move at time bending speeds, et al, is all dependant on him having a chaos emerald! It was clearly spelled out in the cutscene after the first SA2 Hero boss battle (after City Escape) and is the reason why, in "Shadow the Hedgehog",THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS GET A CHAOS EMERALD. This is even before then end of the first level.
    I thought different, my mistake, I didn't play the first level of Shadow the hedgehog so I was unaware of that goal, I played different parts of it when at a friend's place. I learned the plot via research.
    Yes, Sonic Heroes was gimmiky, but you can't use the mechanics of that game as an argument against Shadow as a character. Apples and oranges.
    I wasn't faulting the game's mechanics, I was faulting it bringing Shadow back too quickly or at all.
    Knuckles USED to be Sonic's enemy (see Sonic the Hedgehog 3) but was never his rival. Knuckles filled the strong man segment of the character chart. As for Metal Sonic (not to be confused with Mecha Sonic, who appeared only in Sonic the Hedgehog 2) made his first appearance in video game form in Sonic CD and in Anime form in the original Sonic the Hedgehog: The Movie. In the anime, where he has his first speaking role, he actually believes he IS Sonic. In that sense, he is more akin to Bizarro of "Superman" than a rival. In his video game incarnations, he was always portrayed as Dr. Robotniks answer to Sonic's speed (until Sonic Heroes, where Metal Sonic decides to take over and ignore Robotnik), but was never Sonic's "rival". And enemy, sure, but never a rival. Shadow was Sonic's first true rival in that he possessed as much autonomy as Sonic as well as comparable skills.
    I'm fully aware Knuckles used to be his enemy, I never said he was the enemy, rivals don't have to be enemies, they can be entirely friendly but still be rivals.

    Also I saw that movie, very strange, likable in some ways and so bad in others. What did you think of it? Also, I don't think we can count that is any sort of canon since I'm still working with the games here. And I suppose how we see them as rivals are based on perception.
    As for his purpose as a character, my question is, "Does he need one?" Since I lack an Xbox360, I haven't had the opportunity to play the newer Sonic games but, from what I've read and seen online, Shadow has become a rouge-like character. While he and Sonic share may character attributes (strong sense of will, goes "where the wind takes them") they have many dissimilarities. Shadow is more calm and rational and, while they share a deep sense of loyalty to their friends, where sonic expresses his emotions very openly, Shadow keeps his guarded. In Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), when Mephiles tells him that humanity sealed Shadow away because of his capabilities, he still refuses to help Mephiles, indicating his true alignment as Neutral Good/Neutral.
    A character tends to need to have a reason to exist or they may as well disappear into the ether like the rest of the Sonic one-shots.
    You, sir, need to do your damn research when it comes to the Sonic universe. Especially when I'm around.
    I'll keep that in mind, though really, quite a few of those were honest flubs in my attempt to compress a lot of stuff. Good show nevertheless dear gent.
  • Fluttershy would fall over fainting goat style if she could see me right now. I am FUMING over this guy's inaccuracies and ill supported arguments. >
    Seems like a silly thing to be fuming over when a more reasonable reaction would be to simply respond in a calm and courteous manner explaining why "This guy" (Who has a name, that being Mousa) is incorrect and provide helpful advice rather than sounding like a fanboy with a bone to pick. I am only one person among a sea of many and getting angry is less helpful than being helpful.
  • I wish all angry nerds were as helpful as Sonic. He gave you a bulletpointed essay with solid reasoning and citation. Most places, the best you're going to get is a "You're wrong for obvious reasons. Go eat a dick and kill yourself." followed by a "This. Just this." from another poster, if you're lucky.
  • Sonic fans are furries.
  • Sonic fans are furries.
    And thus the segue into the topic of Furry hate remains flawless
    I wish all angry nerds were as helpful as Sonic. He gave you a bulletpointed essay with solid reasoning and citation. Most places, the best you're going to get is a "You're wrong for obvious reasons. Go eat a dick and kill yourself." followed by a "This. Just this." from another poster, if you're lucky.
    Very true, and I appreciate that.
  • I'm sorry Mousa are you a furry? I didn't know.
  • edited September 2011
    Me? No, I Just think hating's bad and I'm always on the warpath against bigotry and ignorance, even against fellow geeks.
    Post edited by Mousa The 14 on
  • You like everything and everyone?
  • Of course not, I'm not some undiscerning fool, I did mention I disliked Shadow and his game and there's no way you can convince me social conservatives and the Tea Party are anything but nuts. I think that hate is fine if it's reasonable and makes sense. I've just found most hate against furries to be unnecessary and unfounded mostly. Make no mistake though, I think both sides are equally flawed.
  • Oh so now hating isn't so bad. It's just hating things that you don't personally hate which is bad, I get it.
  • Obligatory.jpg

    image
  • I'm sorry Gold Experience, are you a troll? I did not know.
  • Sonic fans are furries.
    I don't care what anyone says, you'd nail Princess Sally and you know it.
  • edited September 2011
    All I did was slow it down slightly and then lower the slightly sped up vice to sound more like mine.
    The next installment is sounding a lot better now that I know what I'm doing.
    Wait, your pitch went up when you slowed playback rate? That doesn't make any sense. Anyway, what software are you using for editing? I use Audition.
    My mistake, It's what I've called it for years and old habits die hard. the gamecube version was the only one I've ever known.
    You really need to find a Dreamcast and play it on that. I'm not going to say it's better, but they changed up the level designs a bit on the gamecube version. Not only that, but raising Chaos on the the VMU's is super fun.
    No I said it was rendered empty by the fact he was still sort of alive, nothing to do with his clones. I just added the clones were thrown in as well and amde the whole thing seem like a way to induce more ridiculous pathos from everyone;s favorite black hedgehog.
    While I won't deny there was a strong positive fan reaction towards Shadow, both Takashi Iizuka and Yuji Naka had wanted Shadow to have his own game since his appearance in SA2. The use of clones was, I think, a good plot mechanism by which to give Shadow some inner conflict in regards to his belief that he was the "ultimate lifeform". Though taking place before the introduction of clones in Sonic Heros, he retains a strong sense of self when faced with a similar dilemma in Sonic Adventure 2, when Rouge tells him he isn't really the Project Shadow, the Ultimate Lifeform.
    Rouge: Do you actually believe that...you're the real Shadow?
    Shadow: No doubt!
    Rouge: Even your memories might not be real...you know?
    Shadow: Even if my memories are not real...it's still me, Shadow. And I will fulfill my promise to Maria. That's the only thing that matters to me now...

    His pathos wasn't ridiculous. In fact, I think he is the most emotionally believable character in the entire franchise. The exception to that is Sonic, but only if you define his emotional substrate as prideful hedonism.
    I'm aware, I never said all dark characters were, I'm saying Shadow was.
    But why? How do you differentiate his "dark"-ness from the examples I gave you? What are your parameters?
    It's totally nonsensical and unnecessary. What does a super powerful chaos controlling hedgehog need a gun for? Anti-hero or not, he can kill with his bare hands, it's just a useless add on to make him grimmer and grittier.
    Look, could Shadow physicaly kill with his bare hands, yes, I'm sure he could. However, you can't forget that this is still a kids game. I know it sounds silly to use that argument when debating the merit of him using guns in the game, but which would be more palatable to parents or children: Shadow teleporting on top of a GUN solder and crushing his windpipe with his gloved hands or shooting the armored soldier from a distance. And the soldiers don't even die; if you walk up to them, they talk to you and you can even revive them with use of one of the items accessible through the Shadow crates or, if your on the flashback ARK level, one of the medkits.
    I wasn't faulting the game's mechanics, I was faulting it bringing Shadow back too quickly or at all.
    That's not gimmick. That's the progression of the story of the universe, like it or not.
    I'm fully aware Knuckles used to be his enemy, I never said he was the enemy, rivals don't have to be enemies, they can be entirely friendly but still be rivals.
    But they aren't even rivals. Rivalry would neccesitate a similar goal or skill set. Knuckles is a treasure hunter who would love nothing more than to be left in peace while guarding the master emerald. The only reason he gets mixed up in any of these adventures is because either
    A. Someone has messed with the Master Emerald or
    B. Someone is threatening to destroy the world (which, by inclusion, would destroy the Master Emerald)
    Then and only then does he team up with Sonic et al. Note: "team up".
    Also I saw that movie, very strange, likable in some ways and so bad in others. What did you think of it? Also, I don't think we can count that is any sort of canon since I'm still working with the games here. And I suppose how we see them as rivals are based on perception.
    Plot-wise, it's decidedly non-canon, but the characters are the same. The animation quality is average for its time and the english voice acting is, predictably, horrible. But the story is decent and funny. I'd give it a C+ with Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex being A.
    A character tends to need to have a reason to exist or they may as well disappear into the ether like the rest of the Sonic one-shots.
    I disagree. In fact, I could easily argue that Sonic doesn't have a "purpose" either. But lets chart the changes in Shadow's purpose, shall we?
    • Sonic Adventure 2: Avenge Maria by destroying humanity.
    • Sonic Adventure 2: Fulfill his true promise to Maria by preventing the immediate destruction of humanity.
    • Sonic Heroes: Pursue Eggman to regain memories of his identity.
    • Sonic Heroes: Questions if he is a clone, goes to seek out "original" Shadow.
    • Sonic Heroes: Fight Metal Overlord to prevent the destruction of the world.
    • Shadow the Hedgehog: Still having no memories, he continues to pursue his memories, teaming up with either Black Doom or Sonic et al, depending on how you play the game.
    • Shadow the Hedgehog: Eggman tells him that he is not an android or a clone, but the original Shadow, whom Eggman had rescued with one of his robots after Shadow fell from space. While the game has multiple possible endings, the generally accepted ending is that Shadow teams up with the good guys to defeat Black Doom and decides to set his past behind him, finally ready to move on.
    • Sonic the Hedgehog (2006): Shadow, now an agent of G.U.N., works with Rouge and Omega to defeat Mephiles and Solaris and save the world and his own personal future. However, due to a time paradox caused by Sonic and Princess Elise, Shadow, (along with everyone else), doesn't remember this.
    For each story, a character's purpose or inner need changes based on that story. As you can see, Shadow's "purpose" does that to great effect. Actually, in a franchise that has been around as long this one, if a character consistently kept the same purpose, the same need, throughout all their appearances, that, to me, would exhibit laziness on the writer's part by not giving the character any growth. Amy Rose, for example.
    Seems like a silly thing to be fuming over when a more reasonable reaction would be to simply respond in a calm and courteous manner explaining why "This guy" (Who has a name, that being Mousa) is incorrect and provide helpful advice rather than sounding like a fanboy with a bone to pick. I am only one person among a sea of many and getting angry is less helpful than being helpful.
    You gotta understand; I grew up playing Sonic games, I considered Sonic to be one of my role models as a kid, and I've been using my handle for nigh a decade. It's the one franchise I'm particularly attached to and when people get things wrong about the series it bothers me about as much as if you told a Star Wars fan that Greedo shot first. I'm generally a very agreeable person, but this is my one vice.
    I don't care what anyone says, you'd nail Princess Sally and you know it.
    Pfft, forget Sally, Have you seen Nicole?
    image

    Come to think of it, that was the last Sonic comic I ever bought. The art style seemed to really go downhill a short while after.
    Post edited by Victor Frost on
  • NEEERRRDDDDSSS!
  • NEEERRRDDDDSSS!
    Heh, yeah, but everyone is entitled to one thing to be nerdy about.
  • I'm sorry Gold Experience, are you a troll? I did not know.
    If Gold Experience is actually a troll, I'm giving him/her the Troll of the Year award right now.
  • I'm sorry Gold Experience, are you a troll? I did not know.
    If Gold Experience is actually a troll, I'm giving him/her the Troll of the Year award right now.
    She's doing an excellent job balancing interesting comments with the occasional troll; definitely a keeper.
  • If thinking furries are gross is trolling then I'm the the Emperor of All Bridge Trolls.
Sign In or Register to comment.