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What Would the End of Football Look Like?

edited February 2012 in Everything Else
What Would the End of Football Look Like? makes some interesting points about Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) and then traces a path for how football interest might dry up.
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  • edited February 2012
    You need to wait for most of the people who care about football and have money to die. That's 30 years away at least.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Simple, when the Internet takes over for Cable television and the NFL sticks to the dieing media. However that is unlikely to happen because a) ESPN will always exist and b) NFL allows NBC to be smart and stream the games online.
  • You need to wait for most of the people who care about football and have money to die. That's 30 years away at least.
    I'm not so sure. People seem to pass their fandom on to their sons and daughters, much of the time. By the time the current people who care about Gridiron and have money die, you'll have a whole new generation of gridiron loving people with money around.
  • You need to wait for most of the people who care about football and have money to die. That's 30 years away at least.
    I'm not so sure. People seem to pass their fandom on to their sons and daughters, much of the time. By the time the current people who care about Gridiron and have money die, you'll have a whole new generation of gridiron loving people with money around.
    It's true, but I get the feeling that there is at least a little bit less football fandom in the younger generations.

    Also, it's really funny how they keep trying to make sports safer with more helmets and such. Eventually they'll just play sports in tanks. The real way to solve the problem is to play without any armor or helmets. If you aren't armored, you aren't going to go bashing into people hard enough to hurt them, since you will also hurt yourself. Works for Rugby/Aussie Rules.
  • Also, it's really funny how they keep trying to make sports safer with more helmets and such. Eventually they'll just play sports in tanks. The real way to solve the problem is to play without any armor or helmets. If you aren't armored, you aren't going to go bashing into people hard enough to hurt them, since you will also hurt yourself. Works for Rugby/Aussie Rules.
    Eventually they'll just play sports in tanks.
    tanks.
    AWESOME.
  • edited February 2012
    It's true, but I get the feeling that there is at least a little bit less football fandom in the younger generations.
    I don't doubt that it with either change as so to be unrecognizable, or die out. I'm just questioning your time-scale, considering - I just think it's going to either be slower than 30 years, or it's going to come really, really suddenly, because of some unforseeable event.
    Also, it's really funny how they keep trying to make sports safer with more helmets and such. Eventually they'll just play sports in tanks. The real way to solve the problem is to play without any armor or helmets. If you aren't armored, you aren't going to go bashing into people hard enough to hurt them, since you will also hurt yourself. Works for Rugby/Aussie Rules.
    You're a little bit off, but there is compelling evidence to suggest that playing with the armor and helmets actually increases rates of injury, since the players engage in riskier behavior, because the added safety makes them feel they can take much bigger risks.

    The part where you're a bit off is where you say "You don't bash into people hard enough to hurt them" - No, you really do. There is still plenty of injury in rugby/AFL, the thing that prevents more of it is both the rules(Certain tackles are not allowed, for example), a bit of skill(You're not trying to permanently injure them, mostly, but it's not unheard of for club play and professional play), and sheer physical conditioning - they train like they play, and they both play and train full contact. Also, It's one of those sports where half the nation has been playing as a hobby, ranging from pick-up games in the park through to the club level and beyond - for a good chunk of their lives. I'm not huge on the game, but I can still kick, run a ball and tackle competently.

    IIRC, there is only one required bit of safety equipment required in both rugby and AFL - I'm pretty sure the rules require you to use a mouthguard. You also have the option of wearing a soft helmet - not like he hardshell helmets you see in gridiron - called a Scrum cap, but it's mostly to protect your ears and head from cuts and scrapes - some players forgo the scrum-cap and simply use a quick wrap with a bit of cloth and electrical tape. It doesn't really do anything for concussive injuries, it just stops you from having your ears torn off, which can be a problem in the scrum.

    Y'know, if you're into Gridiron, you should check out some rugby, if you haven't already. The rules are not entirely dissimilar - enough that you'll be able to rapidly grasp the differences - and the games are often enjoyable to watch, if you're into that sort of thing. I suppose once I grokked the rules well enough, I would say I started to enjoy Gridiron as much as Rugby or AFL, which admittedly isn't a huge amount, but I still enjoy a game or three.

    Post edited by Churba on
  • Eventually they'll just play sports in tanks.
    I fail to see the problem with this.
  • Tennis please!

    Actually, I would watch basket ball if it was "fixed" by having many 5 minute sets, and the winner of each set gets one point. First to 5 points wins. That means you get a "buzzer beating" moment every 5 minutes of play, with a scheduled break for commercials every 5 minutes. Close games would last longer (like in tennis) and if you make it so you need to win by two sets, the close games would go on and on (like in tennis). This would be awesome for advertisers, as the longer the game, the better deal they get. TV schedules won't matter in the future, so longer games would be cool.

    Nobody gives a shit about most basket ball games until the last few minutes anyway, and if it's not a close game, there's no tension at all. The set system, borrowed from tennis, solves all the problems.

    Someone get on that, please!
  • Carlin's idea on Basketball was simple enough: "Give both teams 100 points and only have them play 2 minutes."
  • edited February 2012
    For those looking to go from American football to rugby, try rugby league, its closer to American football in style and rules. Sky's coverage even looks just like the Fox NFL production(or used to at least)
    Post edited by Hitman Hart on
  • Another solution for basketball. Make the nets 15 to 20' high and make the court twice as large. Also, actually make traveling rules as strict as they used to be. Then the game will actually have strategy of moving up and down the court, instead of automatically getting into the offensive zone when you have the ball. That will make it much more like hockey or soccer.
  • Changing the size of the court and the height of the nets means you are testing a different set of skills. I like watching tall men jump high and dunking, especially at speed. I like the offensive play, and I don't mind a game with lots of points. Changing the physical requirements of the court would mean all existing infrastructure would be obsolete, so that's not going to happen.
  • You need to wait for most of the people who care about football and have money to die. That's 30 years away at least.
    I'm not so sure. People seem to pass their fandom on to their sons and daughters, much of the time.
    A coworker mentioned that when his son joined the high school basketball team, they had to watch a video about concussions in addition to signing a waiver. I think it's likely that future research is going to have a chilling effect on parents wanting their kids to play football.
  • Tennis please!

    Actually, I would watch basket ball if it was "fixed" by having many 5 minute sets, and the winner of each set gets one point. First to 5 points wins. That means you get a "buzzer beating" moment every 5 minutes of play, with a scheduled break for commercials every 5 minutes. ...
    Someone get on that, please!
    We had this conversation last time you were in New York, and I agreed 100%.

    There is one possible concern. I wonder if the shot clock timing would need to be modified. I imagine the average time it takes to shoot, coupled with the limitations of the clock (in terms of number of shot attempts each team will get on average) could get a little complicated to balance.
  • Changing the size of the court and the height of the nets means you are testing a different set of skills. I like watching tall men jump high and dunking, especially at speed. I like the offensive play, and I don't mind a game with lots of points. Changing the physical requirements of the court would mean all existing infrastructure would be obsolete, so that's not going to happen.
    Obviously it won't happen, but I don't think you would lose the tall guys jumping and dunking. When the height of the nets was set the players were much shorter. Even at 15 feet you could still dunk. Right now they are so low that the tall guys can grab the rim with barely a hop.

    The thing is that right now in basketball they score way too often. A score is not exciting when it happens all the time. If there were less baskets, each individual one would be more exciting. If there were less dunks, each one would be insanely exciting. The game would also be much harder in general making each player and teamwork significantly more important. Right now in the NBA you have teams where only a few star players matter, and the other guys don't have to do anything. If the game were harder you would need all the players to really cooperate to score.

    Also, keep the same idea of playing sets.

    Another idea, since the court is bigger, add more point lines. 4 point line, 5 point line. Encourage guys to try to throw it from far away. This has a few more effects. One is that it forces the team to play defense over the entire court instead of just half. Two is that it makes the game exciting even if a team is winning by a large margin. Losing by ten? Two five point shots, this thing could be tied up any second. If they try to defend the 5 pointer, maybe it will be really easy to get a bunch of quick two pointers.
  • A score is not exciting when it happens all the time.
    See tennis. People are scoring points all the time! The drama comes from each point being a significant part of a game, which is a significant part of a set, which is a significant part of a match, which is a significant part of a tournament, which is a significant part of the ranking of the ATP player.

  • Another idea, since the court is bigger, add more point lines. 4 point line, 5 point line. Encourage guys to try to throw it from far away. This has a few more effects. One is that it forces the team to play defense over the entire court instead of just half. Two is that it makes the game exciting even if a team is winning by a large margin. Losing by ten? Two five point shots, this thing could be tied up any second. If they try to defend the 5 pointer, maybe it will be really easy to get a bunch of quick two pointers.
    I like this idea. Maybe you wouldn't even need to make the court bigger, just have a 10 point score from behind a line way back in your own half. Or "score 5 from behind the half line, 7 from inside your own 3 point line, and 10 from inside your own free throw line/box". That would make for way more huge buzzer beating plays!
  • There is one possible concern. I wonder if the shot clock timing would need to be modified. I imagine the average time it takes to shoot, coupled with the limitations of the clock (in terms of number of shot attempts each team will get on average) could get a little complicated to balance.
    For each point scored in the set, remove one second from the next shot clock countdown, to a minimum of... I dunno. I just made that idea up. I really don't know enough about the shot clock to comment seriously.

  • A score is not exciting when it happens all the time.
    See tennis. People are scoring points all the time! The drama comes from each point being a significant part of a game, which is a significant part of a set, which is a significant part of a match, which is a significant part of a tournament, which is a significant part of the ranking of the ATP player.
    This is true. Tennis is exciting with points being scored constantly. But the thing in tennis is that it is guaranteed there is going to be a point scored! The excitement is about WHO is going to score that point.

    In basketball it is not inevitable that a point will be scored. So the suspense is whether or not the team with the ball will score. That suspense is significantly reduced when scoring happens a majority of the time. The non-scoring plays are actually the ones that make the difference. A big steal matters more for winning than a big three pointer.
  • If it does happen, I don't think it will be because of concussions. Sports that are even more brutal than football (hockey, boxing) aren't encountering the same situations, nor is the public scorning them for their violence. I could see it start to decline along with television, as less people tune in to the spectacle of the night and instead find their own, more tailored programming, but as far as the problem of danger, I think there will just be a few new rules, a few new pads, and everyone will just conclude things are hunky dory.
  • Also, it's really funny how they keep trying to make sports safer with more helmets and such. Eventually they'll just play sports in tanks. The real way to solve the problem is to play without any armor or helmets. If you aren't armored, you aren't going to go bashing into people hard enough to hurt them, since you will also hurt yourself. Works for Rugby/Aussie Rules.
    You're a little bit off, but there is compelling evidence to suggest that playing with the armor and helmets actually increases rates of injury, since the players engage in riskier behavior, because the added safety makes them feel they can take much bigger risks.

    Actually, the studies I've seen indicated that while the riskier behavior due to the armor and helmets is definitely a contributor to the problems with concussions and such, the actual design of the armor (specifically the helmets) may also be part of the problem. Remember, people used to play football merely with leather helmets and people would sometimes die while playing the game. It was nearly banned as a result and the game was saved by various rules changes including legalizing the forward pass, which is pretty much the key part of the modern game.

    However, part of the problem is that too many players/coaches/etc. seem to want armor designed via the "rule of looking cool" instead of the rule of "being the best to protect you with." I'd argue that with modern rules and the old-fashioned leather helmets, for example, football may be safer than it is now. If nothing else, people won't be spearing each other. Of course, we can do better than leather helmets with modern technology -- and the current hard plastic shell helmets were an attempt to do so, but it's obvious they don't work as well as intended. They do look cool, though!

    A few years ago, someone came up with a helmet design that was basically all dense shock-absorbing foam (think Nerf) except for the face mask with no hard shell on the outside. There were even a couple of football players (some guy for the Buffalo Bills in the early 90's, for example) that played with them because they had serious problems with the hard shell helmets. However, no one really used them because they didn't look as "cool" as the hard shell designs. However, as the inventor of these foam helmets demonstrated, if you whack your unprotected knee with a foam helmet, you'll just be like "hey, a nerf helmet hit my knee," where as doing the same with a hard shell helmet would cause a fair bit of pain.

    Switching to these foam helmets (along with perhaps using similar materials/technology for the rest of a football player's armor) may go a long way in mitigating the injuries caused by the game.
  • You need to add some blockquote code, there.

    Also, I do recall that, and I recall the armor design being part of the problem.
  • If you go to hard foam without any hard shell on them, then you get another problem.
  • If you go to hard foam without any hard shell on them, then you get another problem.
    If you're worried about gridiron players looking silly in big puffy armor if they change it, I got bad news for you, dude...

  • If you go to hard foam without any hard shell on them, then you get another problem.
    If you're worried about gridiron players looking silly in big puffy armor if they change it, I got bad news for you, dude...

    I'm not worried about how they look, but how they play. Foam makes it safe by removing energy from the hit. Removing energy from the hit makes it much less powerful and much less effective. It would become very difficult to actually tackle someone, like it is when wearing an inflatable sumo suit.
  • If you go to hard foam without any hard shell on them, then you get another problem.
    If you're worried about gridiron players looking silly in big puffy armor if they change it, I got bad news for you, dude...

    I'm not worried about how they look, but how they play. Foam makes it safe by removing energy from the hit. Removing energy from the hit makes it much less powerful and much less effective. It would become very difficult to actually tackle someone, like it is when wearing an inflatable sumo suit.
    Just taking the piss, it's alright. You're right, though, there is a line where you're essentially too protected to play effectively. It's like hockey - the goalie is less manuverable and quick on his feet in most cases, because he's got that much more (admittedly, probably necessary) padding. He's also not going to be able to check someone into the boards as effectively(if, for some mad reason, he decided to do so).

    It's a tricky balance to achieve, really. Honestly, I'm all for the Rugby school of "Pads? Where we're going, we don't need pads."
    Though, it would be worth investigating the injury rates and types between the two sports.

  • Motorsports I think actually have a huge advantage lately in that they have done an excellent job of dramatically increasing safety without any significant negative side effects. If you look at some of the crashes in recent years, people have walked away from them in almost miraculous fashion because the safety mechanisms are so effective.
  • Motorsports I think actually have a huge advantage lately in that they have done an excellent job of dramatically increasing safety without any significant negative side effects. If you look at some of the crashes in recent years, people have walked away from them in almost miraculous fashion because the safety mechanisms are so effective.
    That's true, but it's a lot easier with motorsports - You can throw a titanium roll-cage designed for optimum strength and minimum weight into a car, it's not going to do much to change the performance except in the F1 - and they do it anyway(well, the rules do require it), and just work around it. You can put a HANS device on a driver, it's not going to change his performance much.

    However, you put neck braces and big foam plates on a Gridiron player? He can't play!

  • edited February 2012
    However, you put neck braces and big foam plates on a Gridiron player? He can't play!
    Actually, there have been cases of Gridiron players wearing big neck braces while playing:: image

    As far as the foam helmets I described, I haven't seen them made out of foam only, but I have seem foam padding placed on the outside of standard helmets to give players who needed it extra protection:

    image
    image
    Post edited by Dragonmaster Lou on
  • How far away are we from having football players in power armor?
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