I've had a few games where I did pitifully and got 1-2 kills.
This should not be your goal. Get the fuck out of CTF and get your ass on TDM if you want to get frags.
And yes, the bullshit business model choice means no spinfusor for non-paying Soldiers. HURPADURP. But they gotta make money somehow, and a model where new things get released over time means a steady income. Hope they focus more on releasing more skins for money instead of boosters for money.
I am a TF2 focused player, and picked up tribes ascend recently. Played it for about 9 hrs, trying out the three basic classes, and i dont think i will be returning to it.
I have a few problems basically, and ill list them:
Unrecognizable Silhouettes for the classes: unlike tf2 which defined their characters and class designs so well and distinctively, i cannot say the same for this game. In tf2 i knew how every single class looked like and could spot them from miles away, all 9 of them after the very first game i played. In tribes ascend, i have no idea what class it is im shooting at half the time, and the speed does not help. Also, this gives me no way to prepare myself for an enemy unless they start shooting. Im sure i will come to recognize all of them in time, but after 9hrs its still difficult to tell a class beyond Light, Medium, or Heavy.
The f2p model on display here is pretty bullshit. They make switching to another class just a pain, from the experience needed to unlock it, and then the weapon loadouts as well have things to be unlocked, like increased ammo capacity. I cant remember how many times ive died to a mirror match simply because i ran out of ammo first, and had no way to counter attack, and had to run away, the guy and whatever guys nearby hounding me relentlessly. Or the times i wished the soldier i was playing had that spinfusor gun instead of a bloody rifle.
Being able to see enemy health: promotes killing and convergence on single wounded targets. In Tf2, only the Spy has this ability and it suits his playstyle and character as a support class. In tribes, with everybody seeing everyone's health, there is further incentive to pull focus away from objectives, it promotes bad games where new players are constantly getting focused down on by enemies. It makes survival in the field almost impossible if you're down to half health or less (from my experience)
Generator defense and skiing feel like two different game modes on one map. In tf2, the engineer was a class that was instrumental in most defences, his sentry was something that you normally cannot take down alone, teleporters and dispensers both provide support as well as pushing the front line. Being an engineer was important, and involving, having an engineer on your team MEANT your defences were much more solid, that the team had more gadgets and options to push the enemy with. In tribes, nobody wants to play defence. Its static, its not fun, and the technician is hardly able to defend the generator alone with his light sentry gun when all the heavy classes just make a beeline for the generator room. In my time on tribes, i unlocked the Doombringer class, and found myself constantly defending the generator from attacks instead of the flag, simply because the generator powered, EVERYTHING. WHY DOES IT POWER EVERYTHING? WHY does the abilities or items of a class like the doombringer or technician have to be tied to the generator as well? It makes no sense! If that was the case, we'll need at least two dedicated players on defence, one on flag, one in generator room. As it is, its hard enough finding one, or players willing to use their credits to upgrade stuff. Defending the generator is not a fun thing, especially when you know you could be out there going 200miles an hour or something. As a more passive player i was glad to take a defensive role, but even a doombringer cannot stand against two of those juggernaut dudes lobbing in mortars after mortars. Unlike the engineer in tf2, whose sentry alone could provide the deterrence, in Tribes, heh, theres nothing.
No health packs. Maybe im just not used to this kind of Halo esque regenerative health system, but it just takes out a dimensionality of the game. In tf2, a wounded player being chased by another, could turn the tables if he found a health pack and suddenly counterattacked. Or it two players are dueling near a health pack, and suddenly, it becomes a race to see if one or the other can get the health pack first and secure a huge advantage. In tf2, knowing where the health packs and ammo are on the map is important, especially for classes like the Spy. In tribes its just a shooting gallery really, are there any up front strategies and environmental factors you can use, beyond jump jets and high/low grounds, not really. Unless of course you're in a building.
For what it is worth, i found the skiing to be great fun, but it did quickly lose its novelty. There are intricacies to managing it, and ive tried to actively look out for my power and speed all the times, and i am sure i would have gotten better if i had stuck with it.
Here's how I treated it: The game, vanilla, is a demo. Pay ~$30, enough to get all the classes and some extra stuff, for the real game. At which point, it feels balanced enough to have a good time without bitching about others being OP.
Not to insult you, but here is how I read that wall of text.
The problem with Super Mario Brothers is that I don't have the AWP and everyone just goes after the princess.
I assume that the generator and flag business was there from the classic tribes game. Different likes for different folks, i never played tribes, so i was simply comparing the latest incarnation to a game i actively played, and that was my experience. It is what is is.
I will admit that slightly better silhouettes is not a bad idea. I think the differences need to be subtle but you should be able to identify "that guy is an engineer" from "that guy is a medium offensive". And you can, sort-of. But it could be slightly more pronounced. That's actually a totally legitimate thing to want.
I don't see why they couldn't just stick with the old solution of having only three classes, but making each one incredibly customizable (other than that it wouldn't fit into their bullshit business model). In Tribes 2 you could instantly tell which armor someone was wearing from great distance, and you could usually see which weapon and pack they had equipped.
It seems to me like they just mashed in all of the most recognizable game mechanics from the old game to draw in fans, but each one is implemented in the worst possible way.
I will admit that slightly better silhouettes is not a bad idea. I think the differences need to be subtle but you should be able to identify "that guy is an engineer" from "that guy is a medium offensive". And you can, sort-of. But it could be slightly more pronounced. That's actually a totally legitimate thing to want.
The only thing you can really tell right now is if they're skinny, regular, or fat. Within each of those, there is three different classes, all with different roles.
It seems to me like they just mashed in all of the most recognizable game mechanics from the old game to draw in fans, but each one is implemented in the worst possible way.
You're an idiot #1: The silhouettes (BUZZWORD BUZZWORD) in TF2 are recognizable because they are huge and the maps are tiny and windy. You're almost never going to have an enemy in TF2 be a hard to recognize dot because the distances between everything are so fucking small. An enemy in TF2 standing on the other side of a 'long' corridor still fills half your fucking screen.
In Tribs; Abscond you can bombard the enemy with mortars from a distance farther than most TF2 maps are large. All you will have to recognize is the kind of the armour coming your way (not hard), and the position they've taken up on the battlefield. Medium armours near/in their own base are very likely technicians, medium armours near/in their enemy base are very likely raiders, etc. And it's not like silhouette matters, just fucking shoot the enemy. Not to mention, every armour class can kill any other armour class when they meet you anyway.
P.S. Tribs; Abscond maps are also terribly small, for Tribs; Abscond.
You're an idiot #2: Stop being a generator whore. ESPECIALLY when you're a Doomburger. Your fat ass is made to receive a flag pole up it. Get that flag pole up your fat ass and shoot the shit out of everything flying towards your ass. That's what your fucking chaingun is for. Not for waddling about through fucking corridors and corners where the entire thing becomes basically useless. Keeping base assets up is not your job as a Doomburger, don't fucking bother even trying to do anything of the sort as one.
Turrets are also not supposed to be super instant defence for free as it is in TF2 where an Engineer can effectively shut down an area for a while just by humping his sentry. In Tribs; Abscond turrets are to punish slow idiots. If you go fast, they will not be able to kill you at all, or even scratch you significantly. Players will do that shit. Though it is hilarious to have retardedly slow PTHs constantly dying to the one babby turret overlooking a single approach path to the flag.
If you're so worried about base assets being down (they are far, far, FAR less important than having that flag up your bumhole), get your team to deal with it. A single jammerpack RDR and TCN can flush out the enemy gen whores having a party in your genroom, if not, at least the enemy is kept busy, and rendered useless.
P.S. You'll never go 200mph.
You're an idiot #3: Fuck your health packs. That retardation will fuck the game a lot. "Hurrrfadurf imma kap dis flagh oh wot lets pik dis hlthpok as i run so i is at ful hlth agin hurrrhurrr", or for SEN cunts, "lawlawlawlawlawlawlawl imma snip dese mofokkers al day errry day ohshit he shit bak step to side lawlawlawlawlawlawlawl ful hlth niggah". The lack of instant heal is much better. This way people won't dick about in set locations where said instant heals spawn, and doesn't punish you as horribly when the enemy starts healing, because he won't be at full health instantly, giving you a chance to stop him from regaining a lot of health. In the same way, it makes being chased harder because you can't have your health back up to max in a short time, meaning that if you are low on health, you will be that for a while. This in turn means you will have to GO FAST and use the terrain well to survive. If you fail, you are fucking dead.
You're an idiot #4: The first levels of Tribs; Abscond have you put in the babby league, where idiots don't know what CTF means, so they just play TDM... on CTF. There's plenty people who defend the flag and base once you get through the slog of Idiots League 101. Return to us when you start raging about inheritance not being 100%.
And I wish that you would learn how to write "I"
P.S. I am a forum asshole (as in, that was my username), no need to trip over that and tell me, okay?
You do have valid points, but after 9hrs i can tell it just aint my thing. You guys keep on rockin
It's fine that it's not your thing, but I wouldn't necessarily coach that in the terms of its "problems," simply for the fact that you hit on such core mechanics as the generator.
Consider the way I dislike Team Fortress 2. I (don't conflate my arguments with Scott) note specific mechanics and personal reasons for disliking them, while openly recognizing the uses and benefits of said mechanics for other kinds of gamers. ;^)
I can make much more objective statements about TF2 and thus expound on the problems I perceive by passing on the value or core failure judgement.
TF2 is a fine game. It is to objective-oriented class-based team versus FPSs what Yomi is to fighting games. It lets people with low-to-average core FPS skills experience and engage in the high level play of such a game without requiring the undue investment of time and skill growth.
I cannot denigrate it for this, while simultaneously being disinclined to micro-RTSs and fighting games for much the same reasons many people are disinclined to "hardcore" FPSs. It's fine, just not FOR me.
Now, I CAN denigrate it for its hat model and the implications thereby, but even then I can at least express the elegance and skill with which the model was implemented.
You said effectively that the problem with Settlers of Catan is that it doesn't have enough randomness. You should have said that Settlers of Catan minimizes the randomness you enjoy in Monopoly, thus making it a poor game for someone of your interests. ;^)
Would you look at that, a true blue tribes veteran coming in to put the newb in his place. You almost remind me of my sergent back in the army.
You do have valid points, but after 9hrs i can tell it just aint my thing. You guys keep on rockin
I am anything but a Tribes veteran. Never heard about Tribes till well after Tribes 2 was dead. Your arguments are just complete shit and nonsense. And you seem to find yourself on the FRC Forums. You might not be aware of this, but people argue against stupid arguments here, and stupid grammar. Mr. Period, who art in binary form, smite this heathen. Or something like that.
This game is super fun but I'm not sure if the change to how you get vehicles is good or bad, cause I've seen way less of them then in other Tribes. I guess it's good, actually, cause people usually just buy them when they're really needed and there isn't a giant rush to get to the vehicle spawn platform.
I also wound up dropping the $30 for some gold, really wanted that cloak and dagger pack. Spending the money really is the way to go, having more classes now makes a big freakin difference in getting XP.
As far as the silhouette thing goes, I simply mean a few small details. It did seem easier to identify "engineer pack (deployable or repair)", "jammer pack", "energy pack", "ammo pack", etc. in Tribes/Tribes 2. And the core weapons were all completely different looking... there wasn't a mini disk and a heavier disk... it was blaster, plasma, disk, grenade, laser, chaingun, mortar. And apparently the elf, which I had completely forgotten about. But they stuck out quite a bit more than multiple variants of an assault rifle.
Then again, I only logged a few hours in the Abscond. Great game... not time to play it... terrible business model.
Also on the whole identifying your enemies thing: telling the difference between a fully upgraded x and a basic x is highly unlikely. On some level you should always expect everyone to have every option... but... well... that's not likely.
Not realizing this is free-to-play, I almost bought the starter pack on Steam. I would have felt like a terrible person.
Not having the starter pack makes free-to-play annoyingly slow and tedious. Though now with the auto-upgrading of weapons it's a little less bad. It's very much a pay-to-facilitate.
Its a great game with a not terrible free to play model. I actually prefer it to the current standard of having to spend a million hours unlocking shit in a regular retail game just to have cool guns for shooting people, because I dont have time for all that crap.
Its a great game with a not terrible free to play model. I actually prefer it to the current standard of having to spend a million hours unlocking shit in a regular retail game just to have cool guns for shooting people, because I dont have time for all that crap.
Now if only Hi-Rez was super awesome and would give some much needed love to be awesome that is the Doomburger.
Comments
And yes, the bullshit business model choice means no spinfusor for non-paying Soldiers. HURPADURP. But they gotta make money somehow, and a model where new things get released over time means a steady income. Hope they focus more on releasing more skins for money instead of boosters for money.
Well, except for the fact that inevitably, I'd have to pay a hundred bucks.
I have a few problems basically, and ill list them:
Unrecognizable Silhouettes for the classes: unlike tf2 which defined their characters and class designs so well and distinctively, i cannot say the same for this game. In tf2 i knew how every single class looked like and could spot them from miles away, all 9 of them after the very first game i played. In tribes ascend, i have no idea what class it is im shooting at half the time, and the speed does not help. Also, this gives me no way to prepare myself for an enemy unless they start shooting. Im sure i will come to recognize all of them in time, but after 9hrs its still difficult to tell a class beyond Light, Medium, or Heavy.
The f2p model on display here is pretty bullshit. They make switching to another class just a pain, from the experience needed to unlock it, and then the weapon loadouts as well have things to be unlocked, like increased ammo capacity. I cant remember how many times ive died to a mirror match simply because i ran out of ammo first, and had no way to counter attack, and had to run away, the guy and whatever guys nearby hounding me relentlessly. Or the times i wished the soldier i was playing had that spinfusor gun instead of a bloody rifle.
Being able to see enemy health: promotes killing and convergence on single wounded targets. In Tf2, only the Spy has this ability and it suits his playstyle and character as a support class. In tribes, with everybody seeing everyone's health, there is further incentive to pull focus away from objectives, it promotes bad games where new players are constantly getting focused down on by enemies. It makes survival in the field almost impossible if you're down to half health or less (from my experience)
Generator defense and skiing feel like two different game modes on one map. In tf2, the engineer was a class that was instrumental in most defences, his sentry was something that you normally cannot take down alone, teleporters and dispensers both provide support as well as pushing the front line. Being an engineer was important, and involving, having an engineer on your team MEANT your defences were much more solid, that the team had more gadgets and options to push the enemy with. In tribes, nobody wants to play defence. Its static, its not fun, and the technician is hardly able to defend the generator alone with his light sentry gun when all the heavy classes just make a beeline for the generator room. In my time on tribes, i unlocked the Doombringer class, and found myself constantly defending the generator from attacks instead of the flag, simply because the generator powered, EVERYTHING. WHY DOES IT POWER EVERYTHING? WHY does the abilities or items of a class like the doombringer or technician have to be tied to the generator as well? It makes no sense! If that was the case, we'll need at least two dedicated players on defence, one on flag, one in generator room. As it is, its hard enough finding one, or players willing to use their credits to upgrade stuff. Defending the generator is not a fun thing, especially when you know you could be out there going 200miles an hour or something. As a more passive player i was glad to take a defensive role, but even a doombringer cannot stand against two of those juggernaut dudes lobbing in mortars after mortars. Unlike the engineer in tf2, whose sentry alone could provide the deterrence, in Tribes, heh, theres nothing.
No health packs. Maybe im just not used to this kind of Halo esque regenerative health system, but it just takes out a dimensionality of the game. In tf2, a wounded player being chased by another, could turn the tables if he found a health pack and suddenly counterattacked. Or it two players are dueling near a health pack, and suddenly, it becomes a race to see if one or the other can get the health pack first and secure a huge advantage. In tf2, knowing where the health packs and ammo are on the map is important, especially for classes like the Spy. In tribes its just a shooting gallery really, are there any up front strategies and environmental factors you can use, beyond jump jets and high/low grounds, not really. Unless of course you're in a building.
For what it is worth, i found the skiing to be great fun, but it did quickly lose its novelty. There are intricacies to managing it, and ive tried to actively look out for my power and speed all the times, and i am sure i would have gotten better if i had stuck with it.
The problem with Super Mario Brothers is that I don't have the AWP and everyone just goes after the princess.
Tl;dr, Tribes Ascend is $30. Dealwithit.
Also, I really don't want to dignify that business model by giving it any of my money.
It seems to me like they just mashed in all of the most recognizable game mechanics from the old game to draw in fans, but each one is implemented in the worst possible way.
In Tribs; Abscond you can bombard the enemy with mortars from a distance farther than most TF2 maps are large. All you will have to recognize is the kind of the armour coming your way (not hard), and the position they've taken up on the battlefield. Medium armours near/in their own base are very likely technicians, medium armours near/in their enemy base are very likely raiders, etc. And it's not like silhouette matters, just fucking shoot the enemy. Not to mention, every armour class can kill any other armour class when they meet you anyway.
P.S. Tribs; Abscond maps are also terribly small, for Tribs; Abscond.
You're an idiot #2: Stop being a generator whore. ESPECIALLY when you're a Doomburger. Your fat ass is made to receive a flag pole up it. Get that flag pole up your fat ass and shoot the shit out of everything flying towards your ass. That's what your fucking chaingun is for. Not for waddling about through fucking corridors and corners where the entire thing becomes basically useless. Keeping base assets up is not your job as a Doomburger, don't fucking bother even trying to do anything of the sort as one.
Turrets are also not supposed to be super instant defence for free as it is in TF2 where an Engineer can effectively shut down an area for a while just by humping his sentry. In Tribs; Abscond turrets are to punish slow idiots. If you go fast, they will not be able to kill you at all, or even scratch you significantly. Players will do that shit. Though it is hilarious to have retardedly slow PTHs constantly dying to the one babby turret overlooking a single approach path to the flag.
If you're so worried about base assets being down (they are far, far, FAR less important than having that flag up your bumhole), get your team to deal with it. A single jammerpack RDR and TCN can flush out the enemy gen whores having a party in your genroom, if not, at least the enemy is kept busy, and rendered useless.
P.S. You'll never go 200mph.
You're an idiot #3: Fuck your health packs. That retardation will fuck the game a lot. "Hurrrfadurf imma kap dis flagh oh wot lets pik dis hlthpok as i run so i is at ful hlth agin hurrrhurrr", or for SEN cunts, "lawlawlawlawlawlawlawl imma snip dese mofokkers al day errry day ohshit he shit bak step to side lawlawlawlawlawlawlawl ful hlth niggah". The lack of instant heal is much better. This way people won't dick about in set locations where said instant heals spawn, and doesn't punish you as horribly when the enemy starts healing, because he won't be at full health instantly, giving you a chance to stop him from regaining a lot of health. In the same way, it makes being chased harder because you can't have your health back up to max in a short time, meaning that if you are low on health, you will be that for a while. This in turn means you will have to GO FAST and use the terrain well to survive. If you fail, you are fucking dead.
You're an idiot #4: The first levels of Tribs; Abscond have you put in the babby league, where idiots don't know what CTF means, so they just play TDM... on CTF. There's plenty people who defend the flag and base once you get through the slog of Idiots League 101. Return to us when you start raging about inheritance not being 100%.
And I wish that you would learn how to write "I"
P.S. I am a forum asshole (as in, that was my username), no need to trip over that and tell me, okay?
You do have valid points, but after 9hrs i can tell it just aint my thing. You guys keep on rockin
Consider the way I dislike Team Fortress 2. I (don't conflate my arguments with Scott) note specific mechanics and personal reasons for disliking them, while openly recognizing the uses and benefits of said mechanics for other kinds of gamers. ;^)
I can make much more objective statements about TF2 and thus expound on the problems I perceive by passing on the value or core failure judgement.
TF2 is a fine game. It is to objective-oriented class-based team versus FPSs what Yomi is to fighting games. It lets people with low-to-average core FPS skills experience and engage in the high level play of such a game without requiring the undue investment of time and skill growth.
I cannot denigrate it for this, while simultaneously being disinclined to micro-RTSs and fighting games for much the same reasons many people are disinclined to "hardcore" FPSs. It's fine, just not FOR me.
Now, I CAN denigrate it for its hat model and the implications thereby, but even then I can at least express the elegance and skill with which the model was implemented.
You said effectively that the problem with Settlers of Catan is that it doesn't have enough randomness. You should have said that Settlers of Catan minimizes the randomness you enjoy in Monopoly, thus making it a poor game for someone of your interests. ;^)
There is a small mailbox here.
>
You seem to find yourself on the FRC Forums, west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small defiled mailbox here.
>
I also wound up dropping the $30 for some gold, really wanted that cloak and dagger pack. Spending the money really is the way to go, having more classes now makes a big freakin difference in getting XP.
Then again, I only logged a few hours in the Abscond. Great game... not time to play it... terrible business model.