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Sandy Hook

edited December 2012 in News
In the interest of moving the discussion to its own thread...

News reports continue to change. Now guns used has changed from pistols to a Bushmaster. One young girl survived by playing dead. The mom was not a teacher but a teacher's aide. Mom was also a doomsday prepper.

Whst I find ironic is that articles coming out of the autism community sound exactly like the arguments used by gun owners, 'don't judge us because of one bad apple.'
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Comments

  • I'm getting tired of the comparison of a crazy person killing children in a school to military actions causing the inadvertent death of children. And somehow saying that these are the same things or people should feel the same way about both.

    Funny enough it's constantly the libertarians that keep bring up what I consider to a extremely lazy comparison.
  • Muppet is a Libertarian?
  • Heh, I'm talking mostly about my facebook :-p
  • edited December 2012

    just saying...
    Post edited by nothing on
  • From here on out I'm referring to the shooter as That Asshole because he really doesn't deserve to have his name remembered.
  • edited December 2012
    From here on out I'm referring to the shooter as That Asshole because he really doesn't deserve to have his name remembered.
    There's a meme going around on Facebook where Morgan Freeman (supposedly -- I haven't taken the time to confirm it) issued a statement where nutjobs like this guy in CT decided to go berserk by mowing down a bunch of school kids instead of simply offing themselves in their basement like they used to because they want to go out in a blaze of glory and the news media, by mentioning their name and such ad nauseum, is contributing to this problem. He also said we shouldn't even remember this guy's name and that instead we should try to remember at least one victim's name.

    Edit: Okay, apparent it's fake after doing a bit of googling. Still, a good sentiment, however.
    Post edited by Dragonmaster Lou on
  • Still, a good sentiment, however.
    I sort of disagree.

    If anything, people who are driven by media (if they do exist) to undertake actions like this are the danger, not the media itself. The media is background noise, memetic dross, flowing around like primordial ooze or fundamental amino acids.

    People who react to mad memes in a dangerous fashion in the real world are the problem: not the memes themselves. We need to evolve to where general society is immune to these memes, as they cannot be eliminated.

    As for the memes themselves, they're so prevalent solely because they're popular. People choose to spread them. The media is only doing what the vast majority of consumers want.

    Use the Internet, and filter your information effectively (e.g., don't read an article if it isn't interesting to you), and these memes basically disappear from your view. If you can't ignore them, then you're a weak version of the people who act violently when exposed to certain memes.

  • Hmm, it is a subtle case... The question is would these people have actually gone out to go out in a "blaze of glory" if they got their spotlight in the media or not... I agree that the memes themselves aren't the problem, but at the same time, the media needs to be somewhat careful not to encourage them by over-glorifying the perpetrators either. For example, the media can report on every detail of the case except the perpetrator's name and still have all the information the vast majority of media consumers want. Of course, the question remains if that's enough to keep these "blaze of glory" nutjobs from wanting to go out in said blaze -- is getting reported on, even without their name being mentioned, enough to appeal to their twisted minds?

    Of course, even getting rid of the glorifying of criminals such as these is more treating the symptoms than the root problem, which is a lack of mental health care available to many who truly need it. Even if the lack of mentioning the person's name in the media is enough to make them want to privately commit suicide instead of taking out a bunch of others with them in their final act of insanity, that's still a suicide that could've been avoided with proper mental health care.
  • Oh god, reading the conspiracy theories about the second shooter in both the Aurora CO shooting and Newtown and how it's some big mind control government conspiracy is ...... Another reason we should be focusing on Mental Health.
  • I agree cremalin.
  • edited December 2012
    Whst I find ironic is that articles coming out of the autism community sound exactly like the arguments used by gun owners, 'don't judge us because of one bad apple.'
    Both are correct. However, the high frequency of bad apples warrants evaluation of the society and culture within which they occur.
    People who react to mad memes in a dangerous fashion in the real world are the problem: not the memes themselves. We need to evolve to where general society is immune to these memes, as they cannot be eliminated.
    On the other hand, perhaps such memes can be mitigated by counter-memes, as long as people don't assume in advance that the counter-memes are doomed to failure?
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • THE MEDIA IS LYING AND COMPLICIT WITH A COVER UP! YOU NEED TO BE ASKING QUESTIONS AND DEMANDING ANSWERS!


    1. As yet, we have not seen any concrete evidence that any child died.

    2. As yet, parents have not been allowed to see their children. (Photoshopped pictures do not count).

    3. As of now, we have seen only one unambiguous statement from a grieving parent (Robbie Parker).

    4. According to the official story, Adam Lanza was found with his older brother's ID, and it was not stolen. However, older brother Ryan--who officials say is very cooperative--claims not to have even seen his brother since 2010. Where would Adam get this ID? And why does such use not qualify as a theft?

    5. According to the official story, Adam Lanza was wearing a black outfit with a mask and bulletproof vest. Why would he want to hide his identity, and why would he wear a bulletproof vest, if he planned to kill himself?

    6. The medical examiner asserts that all wounds were caused by a rifle or other long weapon, and police/FBI say that the school was littered with .223 (rifle) casings. But Adam Lanza was found dead in the school with only handguns--a rifle was found in the trunk of his car. But then he could not possibly have been firing the rifle, and could not have committed the murders. Who did?

    7. According to the official story, the killing was tightly confined to two classrooms. But then why were so many children told to close their eyes while leaving the building?

    8. Joanne Didonato, the principal's secretary, called in sick on Friday--something she rarely does. So presumably, she must have been awfully ill. Yet she then felt well enough to give an interview. "Of all days," she said, emphasizing the strange coincidence.

    9. The hospital went into lockdown and cleared four trauma rooms, but received only three patients, two of them dead children (according to the official story) and one mildly wounded adult.

    10. Why were there such persistent reports that Mrs. Lanza was a kindergarten teacher, and that she died at the school, when the new official story is that she was not connected to the school and was killed at home?

    11. What happened to the report that Adam Lanza's girlfriend and another friend were missing in New Jersey?

    12. What happened to the woodsman in a black jacket and camo pants who was arrested and handcuffed outside the school? He actually shouted to parents, "It wasn't me." Who was he and what was he doing there?

    13. What happened to the dark van or SUV that the police surrounded in the parking lot, or the maroon sedan with a blown-out back window they were on the lookout for?

    14. The official story is that Nancy Lanza was a gun collector who obeyed the law. But since 20-year-olds are not permitted to buy guns or ammo or carry guns in Connecticut, why would she give her "autistic" son access to both guns and ammo?

    15. Why were parents told on Friday that "if you haven't been reunited with your child by now it's already over"? Does anyone imagine that real parents of real children would simply say, "Okay, the show's over, let's go home now"?

    16. Would real parents of real children really be satisfied with (possibly photoshopped) pictures of their children? Wouldn't they demand to see their children one last time firsthand?

    17. According to the official story, 28 people died but only 1 was wounded. The dead included 20 small, squirmy children--difficult targets even for professionals. How could Adam Lanza achieve such amazingly deadly accuracy, in such a short length of time?

    18. A child asserts that he/she heard someone say, "Put your hands up," followed by the reply, "Don't shoot." This indicates that the police took a suspect into custody inside the school. But if that was Adam Lanza, how did he kill himself after that point?

    19. Another child asserts that he/she saw a man pinned down to the ground with handcuffs on. Again, this indicates that the police took a suspect into custody. If that was Adam Lanza, how did he then kill himself?

    20. When Ryan Lanza was falsely identified as the shooter, who deleted his Facebook profile and created many others in his name?

    21. Is it reasonable for a geeky 20-year-old to carry two pistols and hundreds of rounds of ammunition while wearing a bulletproof vest and a mask?

    22. Why did the police say on Friday that they were going to leave the bodies rotting in the school until Sunday, then Saturday morning announce that they had spirited the bodies away in the middle of the night? Perhaps to ensure that the transport, if any, would go unrecorded on photos or video?

    23. Why won't police tell us where they found the Henry repeating rifle, the Enfield rifle, and the shotgun?

    24. Did the school have one or more security cameras? What do they show?

    25. Why did a police officer specifically mention, on radio, that "they're coming at me through this wood," followed by a
    fellow officer saying, "This is it"?

    26. One officer in the school said, "We've got one suspect down." Who was that? Down in this situation generally means in custody (on the ground and cuffed), not dead.

    27. Why didn't Adam's uncle see anything out of the ordinary in Adam when the two saw each other in June?

    28. Why is Adam Lanza reported to be a loner when a teenager said (oxymoronically), "[Lanza and his friends] always gathered alone in a corner in school"?

    29. Why did police assign an individual state trooper to every grieving family, whether the family wants such "protection" or not?

    30. Why are Ryan Lanza and his roommates still in custody, and why are the police pretending that it's for their own benefit?

    31. Is it a coincidence that Nancy Lanza's brother is Kingston Police Officer James Champion, who lives next door to the former Lanza home?
  • edited December 2012
    *sigh* They are just asking questions..... stupid questions.....but hey

    "17. According to the official story, 28 people died but only 1 was wounded. The dead included 20 small, squirmy children--difficult targets even for professionals. How could Adam Lanza achieve such amazingly deadly accuracy, in such a short length of time?"

    *facepalm*
    Post edited by Cremlian on
  • Hmph...

    There is a bunch of media coverage that the shooter's mother was a conspiracy nut stockpiling weapons and planning for the breakdown of society...
  • "8. Joanne Didonato, the principal's secretary, called in sick on Friday--something she rarely does. So presumably, she must have been awfully ill. Yet she then felt well enough to give an interview. "Of all days," she said, emphasizing the strange coincidence."

    Is this really a question?
  • *sigh* They are just asking questions..... stupid questions.....but hey
    They're only ever "Just asking questions", because if they make a statement, people can say "You're wrong, and that's dumb." If they're "Just asking the question", and your answer contradicts the answer they're putting forward in the question, then they're not wrong about their paranoid delusions, it's just that they asked the "wrong question."

  • A conspiracy theory linking Breivik, Holmes, and Lanza would be a great novel.
  • I'm curious, what makes a prohibition on guns different than a prohibition on drugs? Wouldn't you expect the same issues that arise with a drug ban with a gun ban? If not, why is this so?
  • edited December 2012
    You don't get addicted to guns?
    Post edited by Cremlian on
  • I want guns heavily regulated and controlled, while still retaining necessary and prudent access to them.

    I want drugs as heavily regulated as alcohol and tobacco are now.
  • edited December 2012
    IMHO, if we put a prohibition on guns, theoretically it wouldn't be as violent as the modern underground drug market, but there are so many guns in the US that, in practice, that probably wouldn't be the case.

    EDIT: Ninja'd by Rym. What he said.
    Post edited by Greg on
  • I want guns heavily regulated and controlled, while still retaining necessary and prudent access to them.
    Can you quantify these broad statements?

  • edited December 2012
    I saw this playing on mute behind the guy selling me my lunch today.

    tl;dr: a kindergarten teacher heard gunshots, led the kids into a bathroom, locked the door and read to them to keep them calm.

    Something about this hit me hard. She had know idea if these were her last moments on Earth and she acted with such bravery. I'd like to believe that I'd be able to act with that much grace in such a situation.

    This is what a hero looks like: image
    Post edited by DevilUknow on
  • Scott you are one the money with these mental health issues extending well beyond the initial shooting. I don't talk about it much, but my cousin was one of those killed in the Aurora shooting, and our family has had to deal with harassment from conspiracy theorists who try to say that it was a hoax, that the people were taken for NASA processing at a secret base in Cleveland, that there is a secret fleet of ships behind the moon, etc.
  • I know the DMV is not a shining example of government, but does anyone have a problem with issuing a gun license like you would a driver's license? Prove you know how to use it safely, store it securely, and aren't a nutjob, all through a strict test at a government facility?
  • The NRA appears to have fought mandatory registration as hard as it's fought outright gun bans...
  • Would you accept state level registration, or are you thinking more along the levels of a national registration?
  • I know the DMV is not a shining example of government, but does anyone have a problem with issuing a gun license like you would a driver's license? Prove you know how to use it safely, store it securely, and aren't a nutjob, all through a strict test at a government facility?
    Thing is, all but the absolute hardest core gun nuts I know of are okay with this, and some of these people are quite pro gun themselves.
  • edited December 2012
    Even if many people were to support it, there remains the question of how courts would rule on the constitutionality of such a requirement.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • I know the DMV is not a shining example of government, but does anyone have a problem with issuing a gun license like you would a driver's license? Prove you know how to use it safely, store it securely, and aren't a nutjob, all through a strict test at a government facility?
    What would the age restrictions be? When can you get your "learners permit," so to speak?
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