I think the only serious(as in, not joking, since it's quite small) problem is that she tends to treat tropes as an inherently bad thing, when they're not. A trope - in this context - is just a common device, or motif. Tropes can be used well, or used poorly, depending on what you do with them.
I think one problem lies in the fact that she genders tropes unnecessarily. The "Damsel in distress" trope could be defined in gender neutral terms without losing any of it's versatility or applicability to the works she is discussing. Her problem isn't with the trope itself, it's with it's gendered application. It comes off as being generally hostile because she isn't clarifying.
I'm looking forward to her next video. A lot of her criticisms of early games are far more about the cultural shorthand and stereotypes that early games had to use than with the games themselves. I'd love to hear her take on the persistence of the trope in modern video games with more options for storytelling.
Completely agree with those old tropes being a "sign of the times." They're definitely less forgivable now so looking forward to that next video. She tipped her hand with a very good point about modern remakes and re-releases though. Should they be updated? I can see this getting into the ugly topic of "should art be altered" but I like to take a common sense view and say that if it's a direct re-release, don't change. If you're doing more of a remake, update, or reboot, try to remove the hokey tropes please.
I think one problem lies in the fact that she genders tropes unnecessarily. The "Damsel in distress" trope could be defined in gender neutral terms without losing any of it's versatility or applicability to the works she is discussing. Her problem isn't with the trope itself, it's with it's gendered application. It comes off as being generally hostile because she isn't clarifying.
She's always had an odd problem with things like that, classifications and the like. For example, I recall one example where she said that Empathy and compassion are negative traits often shown by women in media. Since when are empathy and compassion negative traits for anyone?
I think that her gendering of the tropes is kinda forgivable, since without doing so, her point loses all meaning, or at least, all focus. At that point, she might as well re-do the series to not really focus on tropes, or focus on tropes in general(at which point she's essentially just low-rent TvTropes, the video edition.)
I'm looking forward to her next video. A lot of her criticisms of early games are far more about the cultural shorthand and stereotypes that early games had to use than with the games themselves. I'd love to hear her take on the persistence of the trope in modern video games with more options for storytelling.
So am I. While her first video disappointed me somewhat(as already discussed), now that I've adjusted my expectations appropriately, I don't see that being a problem. And I'd like to see where she goes with all of this, and how the series improves. Or doesn't, potentially.
Either way, no matter what she does, it's basically just going to be a timely hydrogen bomb of hilarious drama every time she opens her mouth, so I'm not complaining too much.
If you're doing more of a remake, update, or reboot, try to remove the hokey tropes please.
Combining the topics of gender nonspecific tropes and reboots, who would like to see a gender swapped Legend of Zelda game? Brave young Lady-Link (Linkia? Laura?) fighting to save prince Zeldo from the grasp of the evil Ganandina. If the individual instances of Link, Zelda and Gannon are reincarnations of the same people forced into the same roles, then reversing the genders for a game or two would be a good way to shake things up a bit while still staying true to the idea of an endlessly repeating narrative.
If you're doing more of a remake, update, or reboot, try to remove the hokey tropes please.
Combining the topics of gender nonspecific tropes and reboots, who would like to see a gender swapped Legend of Zelda game? Brave young Lady-Link (Linkia? Laura?) fighting to save prince Zeldo from the grasp of the evil Ganandina. If the individual instances of Link, Zelda and Gannon are reincarnations of the same people forced into the same roles, then reversing the genders for a game or two would be a good way to shake things up a bit while still staying true to the idea of an endlessly repeating narrative.
Oh this has already been done. There is a homebrew version of Legend of Zelda where Link is a girl, still named Link.
If you're doing more of a remake, update, or reboot, try to remove the hokey tropes please.
Combining the topics of gender nonspecific tropes and reboots, who would like to see a gender swapped Legend of Zelda game? Brave young Lady-Link (Linkia? Laura?) fighting to save prince Zeldo from the grasp of the evil Ganandina. If the individual instances of Link, Zelda and Gannon are reincarnations of the same people forced into the same roles, then reversing the genders for a game or two would be a good way to shake things up a bit while still staying true to the idea of an endlessly repeating narrative.
Oh this has already been done. There is a homebrew version of Legend of Zelda where Link is a girl, still named Link.
Thank you Greg for posting these all in one place.
I think that we can all agree most of the people working in the video game industry are guys. And most of the consumers are guys. And as a guy, I can say that I forget these tropes even exist until someone points them out. And if I were making a game, I would not be thinking about breaking them, because they are not something that I even notice.
If more people were to get into the industry that cared about these things, then they would happen less and less. The people who would notice the most would be women. Thus I really see the response to unhappiness with tropes is to get into the industry that creates them, and try to change it from the inside by influencing character creation and game design. I don't think that just talking about it is enough to change anything.
I would love to live in a world where a big company like Nintendo would be willing to gender swap one of their flagship series, but I guess we're a long way from that yet.
Ah well. At least they aren't taking strong established female characters and making them whiny and slavishly submissive to the males in their lives. Oh wait...
I wonder if people would like a girl protagonist in a game that acts like a girl, or one that acts like a guy but is just skinned as a girl?
Also tied to that games like Mario and Zelda I almost forget that I'm trying to save anybody. It just becomes about stomping goombas and smacking skeletons. I feel like using those examples is necessary because they're widely known, but they're kinda shitty examples because the story is usually just strapped on so it doesn't seem like you're wandering dungeons for no reason.
I wonder if people would like a girl protagonist in a game that acts like a girl, or one that acts like a guy but is just skinned as a girl?
"Acts like a girl/guy" are dangerous phrases for it, but look to the Mass Effect series. Same dialogue for both the male and female versions of Shepard.
Yeah I guess either way you could rejigger any occurrence to just have a woman as opposed to a man. I was thinking of exploring female issues, but there isn't really any game that explores male issues for that matter.
A subtle societal presumption of inferiority could be another. The very tropes she mentions could be another. They're not specifically polar but I mean they're not issues that males, mostly white males, don't have to face as the center of the issue.
Are there any good female protagonists that can't easily be replaced by a male? The Boss from Metal Gear has female traits, although she's not the main character of the game she's in.
Really what I meant is if Marcus Fenix was reskinned as a female and the dialog was rerecorded with a female voice would it be praised for having a strong female protagonist? Or does there need to be more? Or something different?
Is the issues the trope, or the lack of inversion of the trope?
I want a game where I play a zombie, genderfuck Susan B. Anthony in powered armor, and am tasked with a Roaring Rampage of Revenge against the patriarchy. We could call it "Womyn's Might."
I want a game where I play a zombie, genderfuck Susan B. Anthony in powered armor, and am tasked with a Roaring Rampage of Revenge against the patriarchy. We could call it "Womyn's Might."
I want a game where I play a zombie, genderfuck Susan B. Anthony in powered armor, and am tasked with a Roaring Rampage of Revenge against the patriarchy. We could call it "Womyn's Might."
Welp, now I know what my next project after Bloodcrusher is I guess!
Why is it that males can get away with wearing and saying what they want, but when a female does the same, it's open season on their looks and fashion sense?
I see what you did there. Going along with it, Yahtzee doesn't show himself in his videos. Merely an avatar that's barely any more distinguishable than any XKCD characters. So the comparison fails there. You could've picked the AVGN.
You think that if someone doesn't allow comments then they can't defend their position? Great.
That's just the kids. The cool people joke about it.
EDIT: Oh hi page 2. I didn't bother looking at you there.
What Rym said. Any useful comments or responses would have been drowned out by a sea of spam, insults, and threats. No purpose would have been served by allowing them.
First video is mediocre, but GUYS it's the first in a series. It's designed to be an introduction to a subject, one that everybody watching it can connect with. With a project like this you don't just start with your big hitter because then you don't have anything to build to. If you judged a movie by its first 15 minutes, pretty much any movie would get a lackluster review.
Comments
I'm looking forward to her next video. A lot of her criticisms of early games are far more about the cultural shorthand and stereotypes that early games had to use than with the games themselves. I'd love to hear her take on the persistence of the trope in modern video games with more options for storytelling.
I think that her gendering of the tropes is kinda forgivable, since without doing so, her point loses all meaning, or at least, all focus. At that point, she might as well re-do the series to not really focus on tropes, or focus on tropes in general(at which point she's essentially just low-rent TvTropes, the video edition.)
So am I. While her first video disappointed me somewhat(as already discussed), now that I've adjusted my expectations appropriately, I don't see that being a problem. And I'd like to see where she goes with all of this, and how the series improves. Or doesn't, potentially.
Either way, no matter what she does, it's basically just going to be a timely hydrogen bomb of hilarious drama every time she opens her mouth, so I'm not complaining too much.
I think that we can all agree most of the people working in the video game industry are guys. And most of the consumers are guys. And as a guy, I can say that I forget these tropes even exist until someone points them out. And if I were making a game, I would not be thinking about breaking them, because they are not something that I even notice.
If more people were to get into the industry that cared about these things, then they would happen less and less. The people who would notice the most would be women. Thus I really see the response to unhappiness with tropes is to get into the industry that creates them, and try to change it from the inside by influencing character creation and game design. I don't think that just talking about it is enough to change anything.
I would love to live in a world where a big company like Nintendo would be willing to gender swap one of their flagship series, but I guess we're a long way from that yet.
Ah well. At least they aren't taking strong established female characters and making them whiny and slavishly submissive to the males in their lives. Oh wait...
Also tied to that games like Mario and Zelda I almost forget that I'm trying to save anybody. It just becomes about stomping goombas and smacking skeletons. I feel like using those examples is necessary because they're widely known, but they're kinda shitty examples because the story is usually just strapped on so it doesn't seem like you're wandering dungeons for no reason.
A subtle societal presumption of inferiority could be another. The very tropes she mentions could be another. They're not specifically polar but I mean they're not issues that males, mostly white males, don't have to face as the center of the issue.
Is the issues the trope, or the lack of inversion of the trope?
EDIT: Oh hi page 2. I didn't bother looking at you there.
First video is mediocre, but GUYS it's the first in a series. It's designed to be an introduction to a subject, one that everybody watching it can connect with. With a project like this you don't just start with your big hitter because then you don't have anything to build to. If you judged a movie by its first 15 minutes, pretty much any movie would get a lackluster review.
This whole thing is a non-issue. WTF.