I'm getting in late tomorrow (11ish), so I probably won't see anyone until after my shift Friday morning. I'm on the tweeters and ess em ess and hangoots.
It seems like the same Dickwolves thing as ever. I still don't think the original comic was out of line, but obviously the way Mike has handled it is. Everything has been re-sparked because apparently at the PAX Q&A he said taking down the Dickwolves merch was a mistake.
Although, I didn't realize that they never acknowledged the creepy Enforcer situation. That's really disappointing to hear.
I don't know what to do. I love PAX, we were looking into getting a booth for Bloodcrusher and everything, but... how the fuck am I supposed to justify going, after something like that?
Ehhhh... I agree that Mike Krahulik says some dumb stuff and is somewhat un-empathetic. But I think some of her points are misinformed and very emotionally driven, only given a very situational view of the issues.
Honestly, by me attending PAX, I don't necessarily think that I'm supporting their views. I can't back that up with any evidence, but it's just the way I feel. If any group opposing PAX "looks at me differently" I don't really care. Sorry.
Also I agree that taking down the thread about the enforcer harrassment was a good idea. I don't know where it was posted in the forums but it seemed like it would have turned into a crazy flamewar. Also that is something that should more appropriately be discussed with the police. Perhaps not making a statement was not a great move but it's their call. I don't often see other companies publicly making statements about employee harassment. On top of that saying that the girl who was sexually harassed didn't reveal the guys name in her blog post either if I recall correctly. I may be wrong about that.
I've been following a lot of this shit on Twitter. Apparently most people aren't accepting of Mike's apologies after the whole trans situation.
Granted, his comments seemed (to me) to be out of ignorance, and his apology posts seemed honest, humble, and truly sorry. But most people don't seem to care and think they don't matter.
On the one hand, I think people are unreasonable in their refusal to accept apologies. However, he does flap his mouth and say the kind of dumb shit I said as an uneducated 16-year old. And he doesn't always apologize for it, like with this Dickwolves thing. I think Mike and Jerry are really talented guys and I like lots of what they do, but it becomes harder and harder to stick up for Mike when he does this stuff.
Lots of indie developers that I follow are in total boycott of PAX and related ventures, and I can't blame them.
The PAX community does not agree with or support the dumb shit Mike Krahulik says. Do not pin that shit on us. That's as unfair as trying to pin the shit Obama does on us because we voted for him.
The Dickwolves thing, specifically, should never have become as big a deal as it was. The joke was never laughing at rape or sexual assault, but it still took off as if Mike had personally assaulted someone. The problem there was that Mike can't keep his fucking mouth shut and let the issue die.
The not-publicly-acknowledging-the-terrible-Enforcer-stuff is much more of an issue, in my mind.
The PAX community does not agree with or support the dumb shit Mike Krahulik says. Do not pin that shit on us. That's as unfair as trying to pin the shit Obama does on us because we voted for him.
Yeah. Someone made a good point that boycotting PAX is not going to change its culture. Continuing to go and being a positive member of the community and calling out the bullshit when it happens will.
The not-publicly-acknowledging-the-terrible-Enforcer-stuff is much more of an issue, in my mind.
PAX is actually among the best communities in this regard. Public acknowledgement would actually make them look good. They probably keep their mouths shut mostly for liability reasons. The Enforcers have had a safety circle for many years. It is serious business. I know few other conventions that have anything close. I know that multiple people and multiple Enforcers are perma-banned from PAX and the PA community. Bullshit is not tolerated.
Also, my viewpoint is probably skewed because I see so many conventions behind the scenes. I know of conventions that have had people do worse things than what the bad Enforcer did, were kicked off the staff, and are now back on the staff. You just don't know about things like this because the people at the top of PAX are public figures. The people who run other conventions are completely private people you don't even know. PAX is among the most squeaky clean cons I know, and it is light years ahead of any other convention in the same size category.
The PAX community does not agree with or support the dumb shit Mike Krahulik says. Do not pin that shit on us. That's as unfair as trying to pin the shit Obama does on us because we voted for him.
Weren't you the one using the old technically owner, but not actually involved because no one wanted him to be, pedophile dude from Dragon*Con as an excuse not to go?
One of my gripes is with the devs and speakers that have games or ideas that address these issues in the gaming culture are boycotting PAX or choose not to go because of the controversy that has happened. I find it to be counter productive to only bring your creation/idea to the same inclusive crowd that already agrees with you. It's nothing but a circle jerk. If you want your idea to be shared and discussed, you must bring it to where people don't understand or agree with you. Doesn't that bring more awareness?
The Dickwolves thing, specifically, should never have become as big a deal as it was. The joke was never laughing at rape or sexual assault, but it still took off as if Mike had personally assaulted someone. The problem there was that Mike can't keep his fucking mouth shut and let the issue die.
I still haven't read the comic in question (it's on purpose at this point), but it always seemed odd to me that I'm expected to let one comic overshadow all the good they've done with Child's Play.
I mean, so what if some people were offended? These guys are out doing good in the world. What's the problem?
The PAX community does not agree with or support the dumb shit Mike Krahulik says. Do not pin that shit on us. That's as unfair as trying to pin the shit Obama does on us because we voted for him.
Weren't you the one using the old technically owner, but not actually involved because no one wanted him to be, pedophile dude from Dragon*Con as an excuse not to go?
They finally got rid of him after how many years? PAX insta-perma-bans people for far less. It doesn't wait a zillion years to address the issue.
Dragon*Con is a for-profit entity. He just happened to be the majority shareholder. They had to buy out his shares, even though he was removed from any leadership or involvement more than a decade ago.
The Dickwolves thing, specifically, should never have become as big a deal as it was. The joke was never laughing at rape or sexual assault, but it still took off as if Mike had personally assaulted someone. The problem there was that Mike can't keep his fucking mouth shut and let the issue die.
I still haven't read the comic in question (it's on purpose at this point), but it always seemed odd to me that I'm expected to let one comic overshadow all the good they've done with Child's Play.
This is the comic in question. If you're upset about giving the comic pageviews, don't worry - I threw it on Imgur so you're not giving the page traffic. Just read it, seriously, it's not what it's been made out to be.
It's not the comic that's the problem. It's actually a pretty funny comic, and if you're gonna do a rape joke, it's kinda how you should do it; the joke is "hey, this hero is a terrible person" instead of lol, somebody gettin' raped.
The problem isn't even when you produce a shirt with the dickwolves on it, because, yeah, edgy or whatever, I can see having a problem with it, but on the face not offensive.
No, the problem is pandering to a crowd which proudly wore the label "Team Rape" during this whole debacle.
To my knowledge of the course of events, the shirt was taken down due to the negative backlash, and Mike's comments at the Q&A were him saying that he doesn't like pandering to people he considers "bullies." I'm coming to that conclusion because it's been the case before, and it's (to a degree, unfortunately) how Mike operates.
Others, being significantly more pragmatic folks, stuck by keeping the shirt out of their stores because of what you described - a god-awful tangential meaning associated with the shirt itself. I don't think that Mike was, in any way, promoting rape culture or even giving credence to the few terrible people in that audience, but that his intention was simply to behave as if it was never an issue in the first place.
The assertions that Penny Arcade are in favor of the "Team Rape" message are ludicrous, but PA (Mike especially) could be a helluva lot smarter about defending themselves.
Well for one, I don't think there was any "pandering" going on. I think his position was that they gave in to peer pressure on a creative vision. I'm only using that term because I don't know a more accurate phrase. Second crowds will cheer for any shit without really thinking about what is being said. Who knows what 1000+ people's stances in the audience were.
Loosely related Derek Yu empathized with Anita Sarkeesian when she said that he had damsel in distress tropes in Spelunky. He understood and was sorry that it could offend some people but he wasn't going to change it.
I would write a response to this article, but it's not worth it considering the subject matter.
I tend to avoid writing anything where "Your article is overwrought garbage, you're manipulating the facts to point to the conclusion you already had before you started, and your solution of "This show is bad so never go" is fucking awful because you can't change anything by doing nothing" when the overzealous masses would read it as "I endorse rape and rapists, and I hate women! Fuck all y'all rape all-day-erry-day! Rape rape rape rape rape!".
This article is a hot fucking mess that is only a hair away from lying, and is certainly manipulating the truth purely to garner outrage - But it's not worth saying shit about, because I'll just get howled down by idiots and accused of all manner of horrible things. It's simply not worth it.
Loosely related Derek Yu empathized with Anita Sarkeesian when she said that he had damsel in distress tropes in Spelunky. He understood and was sorry that it could offend some people but he wasn't going to change it.
That's kind of the response that Anthony Burch had when people were saying Tiny Tina was racist. It's the right response.
Although obviously in Spelunky you can as many diverse female characters, and the damsel in distress trope is invoked because he's poking fun at it.
Comments
Thanks for showing me the true and proper way to play Bohnanza, I had not realized we were doing it wrong until just this weekend.
http://elizabethsampat.com/quit-fucking-going-to-pax-already-what-is-wrong-with-you/
I don't know right now. I'll have to read more and think about it get a better opinion and take on things.
Although, I didn't realize that they never acknowledged the creepy Enforcer situation. That's really disappointing to hear.
Ugh, fuck everything.
Honestly, by me attending PAX, I don't necessarily think that I'm supporting their views. I can't back that up with any evidence, but it's just the way I feel. If any group opposing PAX "looks at me differently" I don't really care. Sorry.
Also I agree that taking down the thread about the enforcer harrassment was a good idea. I don't know where it was posted in the forums but it seemed like it would have turned into a crazy flamewar. Also that is something that should more appropriately be discussed with the police. Perhaps not making a statement was not a great move but it's their call. I don't often see other companies publicly making statements about employee harassment. On top of that saying that the girl who was sexually harassed didn't reveal the guys name in her blog post either if I recall correctly. I may be wrong about that.
Granted, his comments seemed (to me) to be out of ignorance, and his apology posts seemed honest, humble, and truly sorry. But most people don't seem to care and think they don't matter.
On the one hand, I think people are unreasonable in their refusal to accept apologies. However, he does flap his mouth and say the kind of dumb shit I said as an uneducated 16-year old. And he doesn't always apologize for it, like with this Dickwolves thing. I think Mike and Jerry are really talented guys and I like lots of what they do, but it becomes harder and harder to stick up for Mike when he does this stuff.
Lots of indie developers that I follow are in total boycott of PAX and related ventures, and I can't blame them.
The not-publicly-acknowledging-the-terrible-Enforcer-stuff is much more of an issue, in my mind.
Also, my viewpoint is probably skewed because I see so many conventions behind the scenes. I know of conventions that have had people do worse things than what the bad Enforcer did, were kicked off the staff, and are now back on the staff. You just don't know about things like this because the people at the top of PAX are public figures. The people who run other conventions are completely private people you don't even know. PAX is among the most squeaky clean cons I know, and it is light years ahead of any other convention in the same size category.
I mean, so what if some people were offended? These guys are out doing good in the world. What's the problem?
Also, quite a difference between an actual crazy pedophile and a guy who says offensive shit sometimes, but otherwise is mostly a good person.
The problem isn't even when you produce a shirt with the dickwolves on it, because, yeah, edgy or whatever, I can see having a problem with it, but on the face not offensive.
No, the problem is pandering to a crowd which proudly wore the label "Team Rape" during this whole debacle.
That's hard to defend.
Others, being significantly more pragmatic folks, stuck by keeping the shirt out of their stores because of what you described - a god-awful tangential meaning associated with the shirt itself. I don't think that Mike was, in any way, promoting rape culture or even giving credence to the few terrible people in that audience, but that his intention was simply to behave as if it was never an issue in the first place.
The assertions that Penny Arcade are in favor of the "Team Rape" message are ludicrous, but PA (Mike especially) could be a helluva lot smarter about defending themselves.
Loosely related Derek Yu empathized with Anita Sarkeesian when she said that he had damsel in distress tropes in Spelunky. He understood and was sorry that it could offend some people but he wasn't going to change it.
I tend to avoid writing anything where "Your article is overwrought garbage, you're manipulating the facts to point to the conclusion you already had before you started, and your solution of "This show is bad so never go" is fucking awful because you can't change anything by doing nothing" when the overzealous masses would read it as "I endorse rape and rapists, and I hate women! Fuck all y'all rape all-day-erry-day! Rape rape rape rape rape!".
This article is a hot fucking mess that is only a hair away from lying, and is certainly manipulating the truth purely to garner outrage - But it's not worth saying shit about, because I'll just get howled down by idiots and accused of all manner of horrible things. It's simply not worth it.
Although obviously in Spelunky you can as many diverse female characters, and the damsel in distress trope is invoked because he's poking fun at it.