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The Burning Wheel?

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  • What should I do to convince him?
    Have genuinely more fun playing Burning Wheel than playing D&D.;
    The problem is, is that he hasn't played Burning Wheel yet and he's a huge dick about it.
  • What should I do to convince him?
    Have genuinely more fun playing Burning Wheel than playing D&D.;
    The problem is, is that he hasn't played Burning Wheel yet and he's a huge dick about it.
    Play with someone else. Why play with a dick?
  • Why play with a dick?
    Ask yourself that question, Scott. I thought you said it was fun. Why else would you do it every day?
  • Why play with a dick?
    Ask yourself that question, Scott. I thought you said it was fun. Why else would you do it every day?
    Who does it every day?
  • And now for another episode of "FRC people freak out the rest of the forumers" starting Scott and Emily.
  • Why play with a dick?
    Ask yourself that question, Scott. I thought you said it was fun. Why else would you do it every day?
    OH SNAP! :-p
  • I need some help. I want to try to convince my younger brother that the Burning Wheel is more non-broken than D&D;, but he won't listen to me mainly because he is both an ass and not privy to change. What should I do to convince him?
    Get friends together. Start playing in a conspicuous place after you know what you're doing. Have awesome burning fun in front of your brother in aforementioned conspicuous place. Eventually, his will should crumble. Then you can mercilessly mock him about what a dick he was.
  • edited September 2008
    Why play with a dick?
    Ask yourself that question, Scott. I thought you said it was fun. Why else would you do it every day?
    Zing!
    I have bought the books both for myself and for two of my gaming friends last X-mas. One has moved away and the other is more busy now than this time last year. We have yet to run even the demo. :(
    I would run the Sword for my friends if I could get four (heck even just two) of them together long enough.
    Post edited by ColdfireSerge on
  • So, I have a question. There are a few expansions available for the Burning Wheel (Monster Burner and Magic Burner are the two big ones that have my interest), and I'd imagine they're worth getting considering how much praise I've heard of the Burning Wheel - but should I get them when I get the game, or should I play it a few times without expansions before adding them? I figure the latter is the better choice, but if these are the sort of expansions that greatly enhance the game then I would love to start using them as soon as I get the chance.

    I'll be getting the Burning Wheel regardless because I really want to get some good roleplaying action on, but if it's recommended to get the expansions along with the main books, I will.
  • [T]he latter is the better choice
    There, first see if you enjoy the game, then go for the extra books if you want more.
  • Don't bother with Magic Burners or Monster Burners or anything until you know you need them. Remember, the regular old Burning Wheel comes with two books. The first book is Burning Wheel. The Second book is the Character Burner, which is used for making characters. Only the first 75 pages or so of Burning Wheel are required to actually play the game. The rest of the book is optional advanced rules. There's no reason to get Monster or Magic Burners until you are chill with the advanced rules in the regular Burning Wheel book. Of course, if you really want to play a game with Magic or Monsters, buy the appropriate book.
  • I've played several Burning Wheel one-shots and enjoyed them. It seems like a pretty well put together system.

    I've also played in a Burning Empires campaign, and while there was a good deal of Awesome going around the system-as-written seemed a bit broken in a few ways and I probably wouldn't play that game again. When one of my groups is done with the current Exalted: Sidereals game (most kick-ass setting ever and we're too lazy to adapt it to another system) we might go to Burning Wheel, but we might also go to Dogs in the Vineyard or Nobilis or something else.
  • I'm finally picking up my copy today. I don't know if I'll ever play, however if my boyfriend ever gets the hankering to want to role play again, I might actually join him and his friends.
  • If my boyfriend ever gets the hankering to want to role play again, I might actually join him and his friends.
    Fixed this to be out of context and dirty-sounding.
  • If my boyfriend ever gets the hankering to want to role play again, I might actually join him and his friends.
    Fixed this to be out of context and dirty-sounding.
    Zing!
  • If my boyfriend ever gets the hankering to want to role play again, I might actually join him and his friends.
    Fixed this to be out of context and dirty-sounding.
    *sigh* I really try not to do that, however I fail at that. You should hear the things I say sometimes. They can more than likely be taken out of context into something sexual. :P
  • In a recent episode of the Canon Puncture podcast, Mr. Crane has finally talked about what exactly Project Donut is. Apparently its a scifi RPG he's working on with Jared Sorensen set in a distant post-scarcity future. It sounds very intriguing, and I'll definitely be paying attention to any more information that gets released on it.
  • I heard about Burning Wheel for the first time at Otakon 2009 I would like to try it (I even have a friend with the basic books), but after reading through the Mouse Guard rules and talking with my friends I did have a couple questions/concerns about the system, mostly concerning the conflict/action resolution aspect of the system.

    Basically, reading about it from the book made it seem more cumbersome then I would have expected. I also found it odd they recommend using those rules for debate and arguments, when in other games my group would just roleplay them and make periodic checks. A friend of mine also disliked the rock, paper, scissors aspect of combat since it lacked the inherently arbitrary nature of dice and forced you to try to outguess the GM.

    Some of these concerns may just be how the game it run, but if anyone can clarify things, I would appreciate it.
  • Short answer: try it before you knock it.

    Long answer: First, you may want to examine the Burning Wheel forum and wiki. Many of the questions you will have are already addressed there in some form.

    Many of the extended conflict rules appear more complicated in text than they are in practice; I suggest running through The Sword (one of the demos available at burningwheel.org) a couple of times with your group to get a feel for them. They're also completely optional if you want to stick to the simpler conflict resolution mechanics.

    Using the argument rules serves to keep your roleplaying connected to the rest of the game: there are clear mechanical and narrative consequences for success or failure, characters argue at their own strength rather than the strength of the player, and the argument is kept reasonably to the point rather than spinning on with people repeating themselves for an hour. You don't always want to use them, but for high-stakes arguments, particularly those for the opinion of a third party (before the king, before a crowd, etc), they work very well.

    The rock-paper-scissors aspect of the conflict systems is not as strong as your friend seems to think. There is an element of strategy and outguessing, but character skills and stats also weigh very heavily. Most of the actions are not meant for constant use; to accomplish anything, you need to be making Points (DoW) or Strikes/Locks (Fight!). Everything else acts in support of those two, and provides alternate viable strategies depending on what supporting skills the character has. And everything ultimately still comes down to the dice; there's just an additional element of strategy to force the player to think about what they're doing rather than run on automatic (as combats in D&D often seem to come down to).
  • I'll say this, BW is a very different type of dice system, totally unlike the D20, D10, or multi-dice systems with very different rules. After playing D&D, World of Darkness (vampire, Werewolf, etc.), Paranoia and several other systems, playing BW was sort of like trying a food I'd never had before; it took me a few tries to decide weather or not I liked it. The conflict resolution rules seem overly complex at first, but it's really not that bad once you run through some different scenarios.

    Alex and I sat down once to practice fighting with my character from our main game, a burly barbarian type. Before then, we had used basic opposed skill rolls to determine fight outcomes mostly because the rules seemed so daunting. After we ran through a couple of fights, we got the hang of it and figured out when it would be most appropriate to use quick opposed tests and when to use the fight rules.

    I remember first learning how to play D&D. With the six different kinds of dice, tables for resolution, rules, etc. Additionally, you got most of your experience to advance your character from killing stuff. BW rewards players for role-playing and advancing their character on their own, as well as attempting just about anything. After being so used to D&D, it was difficult to make the jump into a system that was almost the opposite 'polarity'.

    I agree with trying some of the demos. I loved doing the rat-colony demo, it was great with a large group.
  • Short answer: try it before you knock it.
    Don't worry, I plan to. I actually know a friend who does have the books (though I don't know how much he's used them before) and he's willing to let me borrow and read through them.

    I'm sorry if my post made me sound like a Burning Wheel hater/troll. Borrowing GreatTeacherMacRoss' food analogy, Burning Wheel is like an exotic dish I've never tried before and have no context on what it tastes like. As a result I don't know if I'll like it until I try it, but I'm hesitant to try it in case I don't like it.

    I think you can see the inherent problem with that logic. Since there is such a large portion of Burning Wheel player here, I figured it couldn't hurt to voice some of my concern in an effort to get reasonable answers. I still have some concerns about the works of the system, but now I'm at least partly certain that I'm over-thinking it.

    As a side note: I realize no one here can do anything about it, but I wish the Burning Wheel website was a bit better organized. It took a bit of digging to find the download link for the Sword adventure.
  • Playing Burning Wheel for the first time is a tricky thing for anybody. If you are not experienced in the ways of tabletop RPGs, you will have a hard time because there is a lot to absorb, and it can often be too advanced for a complete beginner (though it isn't impossible). On the other hand, if you have a ton of experience with other RPGs, especially the D&D kind, you will probably have a bad Burning Wheel experience, because you can't forget what you already know.
  • If we ever get around to filming/recording a definitive version of the "Beyond D&D" panel, it already answers a number of questions like these.
  • Will you ever do a "Beyond Burning Wheel" panel?
  • Will you ever do a "Beyond Burning Wheel" panel?
    Maybe they will, but it should be called "Beyond Burning Wheel Lies Nothin' "
  • Will you ever do a "Beyond Burning Wheel" panel?
    I assume that will be some virtual reality/mind-reading device that deals with all the real-world physics (dice rolls) built in but is controlled/directed/story told by one person :-p
  • edited October 2009
    Playing Burning Wheel for the first time is a tricky thing for anybody. If you are not experienced in the ways of tabletop RPGs, you will have a hard time because there is a lot to absorb, and it can often be too advanced for a complete beginner (though it isn't impossible). On the other hand, if you have a ton of experience with other RPGs, especially the D&D; kind, you will probably have a bad Burning Wheel experience, because you can't forget what you already know.
    I probably fall somewhere to the middle on that, since while I'm not an old hand at RPGs by any stretch (I only started playing them in college) I've still got in a lot of games along with a bit of GMing here and there. Also, while a lot of my previous RPG experience is D&D;, forgetting what I know isn't hard because I'm terrible at remembering all of its rules.

    I think the inherent cause of my concerns is I don't know if the game will provide as good of a role playing experience as I've had with other systems, but I won't know for sure until I try it.

    Edit: After reading through the entirety of the base rulebook and most of the Character Burner (I've read all the character creation bits, but not all of the skill lists) I have to say that while I would love to play Burning Wheel sometime, I'm unsure about running it. Surprisingly, my hesitation doesn't come from from the combat system.

    I'll admit that it seemed overly complicated and minutia-riffic the first time I read the combat chapter (especially since I'd mostly been playing systems with rule-light combat), but it started to make sense one I read the sample combat. I could tell that despite the learning curve there was a flow to combat that made sense once you got the basics. Some of the maneuvers seem a bit extraneous to me, but I can see how more technical fighters would appreciate them.

    What's really holding me off is how the rules seemed geared towards creating a different game world then the one I like to run. While Burning Wheel might not have a setting, the rules are very much focused towards creating a Tolkien-esque, high-fantasy world. Combat is very intricate and deadly. Magic is extremely powerful and even potentially dangerous to the caster. Other races aren't just humans with different stats.

    The problem is such I prefer to run a much softer brand of fantasy. So now my question is just how easy is it to adjust the and customize the system?
    Post edited by Fletch02 on
  • I own the books and have yet to play them. Unfortunately I have never gotten the chance to play an actual tabletop rpg and am having a hard time getting a real serious group together to play with me. i played the sword with a bunch of kids at my school that claimed they played dnd and it went horribly, due to the fact that they thought hacking away at an elf corps was more important than fallowing the beliefs on their character sheets. im really looking forward for when i can get a real group an play.
  • Next time they should pick beliefs that involve hacking away at elf corpses.
  • edited July 2010
    Finally got around to getting a real game together; it was everything I had hoped it would be. I'm looking forward to when I can play with some experienced role players and get an even better campaign going. The one I
    ran was very straightforward and cliche. I'm hoping I can play some BW at Connecticon. Is anyone getting any BW campaigns together at Connecticon?
    Post edited by Rym on
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