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No drugs for You!

edited October 2010 in Politics
U.S. Will Enforce Marijuana Laws, State Vote Aside
LOS ANGELES — The Department of Justice says it intends to prosecute marijuana laws in California aggressively even if state voters approve an initiative on the Nov. 2 ballot to legalize the drug.
Interesting timing on this because Obama was recently asked at a town hall event...

video link

Comments

  • Hm. Wouldn't that fail, considering the tenth amendment? It worked in new york vs the united states.

    Not criticizing, just curious - I know fuck all about US law, particularly How the constitution can affect things.
  • Federal law overrides state law, period. I always wondered why the feds didn't go in harder against the medical weed in Cali up until now. They went in for a little while, but then they sort of gave up when they were protested. Not that I want weed to be illegal, but I don't want to set a precedent of state law overriding federal law.
  • edited October 2010
    Federal law overrides state law, period. I always wondered why the feds didn't go in harder against the medical weed in Cali up until now. They went in for a little while, but then they sort of gave up when they were protested. Not that I want weed to be illegal, but I don't want to set a precedent of state law overriding federal law.
    I'm not so sure about that. Pretty much every time a challenge to a law or the enforcement of it using the 10th amendment that was successful, it was because the Federal government was trying to force a state government to enforce federal law over state law, such as New York V United states(Involving a portion of the Low-Level Radioactive Waste Policy Amendments Act), and Printz v. United States in 1997(involving the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act).

    Now that I'm looking at the information, while State law does not trump federal law thanks to the Supremacy clause, Nor does it mean that states can nullify federal law, I'm pretty sure it means that it can cause federal laws to be ruled unconstitutional, or at least, parts of them.

    However, it might also go if they do decide to try a challenge using the 10th amendment, that the federal government will invoke the commerce clause.

    As one final note - The feds DID try to go after California for Medicinal Marijuana - there were widespread raids and a large scale crackdown by federal agents that only ended last year, on Obama's order. Apparently, in 2007 alone, they conducted 50 separate raids.

    I take this opportunity to explicitly remind everyone I'm a lawyer of any sort, I'm just regurgitating information.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • edited October 2010
    As one final note - The feds DID try to go after California for Medicinal Marijuana - there were widespread raids and a large scale crackdown by federal agents that only ended last year, on Obama's order. Apparently, in 2007 alone, they conducted 50 separate raids.
    I know, I was saying I was surprised they weren't harder than they were. You can go online and get a Google Map of dispensaries. They could have just gone door to door to every single one, and locked up everyone in the federal hoo-hah.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Isn't this a major flip flop? Last October the Obama DOJ said they would not interferre with states that passed medical marijuana laws.

    Makes you wonder if this was in the works or a response to the town hall question.
  • Isn't this a major flip flop? Last October the Obama DOJ said they would not interferre with states that passed medical marijuana laws.
    There is a difference between cracking down on medical marijuana and recreational use. Letting people slide on federal law over a medicine is a different beast then letting people use it freely. As it is the executive branches job to enforce written law, they have to draw a line somewhere. I view Prop 19 has a starting place for more states to move on legalization. From there they can get a federal law in place and we can end this stupidity.
  • Isn't this a major flip flop? Last October the Obama DOJ said they would not interferre with states that passed medical marijuana laws.
    There is a difference between cracking down on medical marijuana and recreational use. Letting people slide on federal law over a medicine is a different beast then letting people use it freely. As it is the executive branches job to enforce written law, they have to draw a line somewhere. I view Prop 19 has a starting place for more states to move on legalization. From there they can get a federal law in place and we can end this stupidity.
    To be fair, the list of ailments that you can get a medical pot card for is so large and comprehensive that it might as well be recreationally legal. One of the lists here.
    Highlights - you can get your pot card for such horrific ailments as nightmares, stuttering, tobacco dependency, "cough", Headaches, colour blindness, Forearm/wrist/hand pain(wankers take note), Multiple joints pain(I've had that before, but not in the way they mean), Testicular torsion(you're breakin' my balls, here), Writers cramp, and my personal favorite - hiccups.
    You can get weed for having the hiccups, for fuck's sake.
  • I don't understand why the US is still so hell bent on keeping marijuana illegal. You can't over dose from smoking to much pot. It actually helps people who have serious issues with pain like have to go through chemotherapy. Also helps them with there loss of appetite. Turning into a pot head while not a great thing to be. Is way better to be than being a violent drunk asshole or crack head or heroin addict.
  • edited October 2010
    I'm all for legalizing pot as long as you only use it in the privacy of your own home, and everyone within range is a consenting adult.

    However, I still say that medical marijuana is no good. If it really is supposed to be a prescribed medicine, then it should be prescribed like medicine. First of all, it should only be delivered in a non-smoke form. It needs to have a controlled and pure dosage without burning plant matter and other contaminants in there. You don't prescribe mold for pneumonia, you give penicillin. Likewise, you should never prescribe marijuana, you should prescribe THC. Secondly, it needs to actually be prescribed. It shouldn't be a card that lets you buy whatever you want whenever you want. It should be take X mg per day for Y days for Z specific ailment, and then you get it at the actual pharmacy.

    If you want to make it legal, just make it legal. But don't make a mockery of medicine and the prescription system while you are at it.
    Post edited by Apreche on

  • However, I still say that medical marijuana is no good. If it really is supposed to be a prescribed medicine, then it should be prescribed like medicine. First of all, it should only be delivered in a non-smoke form. It needs to have a controlled and pure dosage without burning plant matter and other contaminants in there. You don't prescribe mold for pneumonia, you give penicillin. Likewise, you should never prescribe marijuana, you should prescribe THC. Secondly, it needs to actually be prescribed. It shouldn't be a card that lets you buy whatever you want whenever.
    I can't say I know exactly how the dispensing operates, but you're wrong on a few points - they do have controlled and pure dosages, using varios methods from pills, to drinkable medicine(iirc), to these things that are like those listerine breath strips, but are chock-full of THC, to synthetic compounds like marinol.

    As for proscribing just THC alone - you don't know so much what you're talking about. THC is a mildly psychoactive analgesic. What about CBD? Or CBN, or CBG? Or the 62 other cannabinoids found in marijuana? That's the reason - smoking, vaporizing, eating, and so on, are the easiest methods of using medicinal pot in most situations, because we don't know yet what benefits all of the cannabinoids have, or how to properly exploit them or synthesize them without a lot more research.

    As for the length of time it's proscribed - well doctors will just find a way around that, trivially - they already do. I know someone who gets migranes all the time, and has an open-ended, unlimited refills proscription for her migraine meds, so that she isn't in at the doc wasting everybody's time as well as taking up a valuable appointment slot, just to get a script for her migraine pills. I know a few people with open ended perscriptions, for a whole double rainbow of pills and potions, including some very serious stuff, like Hydrocodone, benzodiazepines from alprazolam to Zoipiclone including that nasty old bitch diazepam, and many more.
    It would work, curiously, the same way I'm told it works now, were that the way it went - you have an open end prescription, you show up at your legally sanctioned drug dealer, and get your proscribed amount. When you run out, you go to the chemist, and you get more.
    pardon any odd grammar or wierd, out of place words, typing this on my phone. Also, pardon if it's rambling and makes no sense, it's three am, and i'm going from memory now.
  • Where does the medicinal marijuana come from now?
  • because we don't know yet what benefits all of the cannabinoids have, or how to properly exploit them or synthesize them without a lot more research.
    Then we shouldn't really be perscribing it as medicine now, should we?
  • Then we shouldn't really be perscribing it as medicine now, should we?
    Medical marijuana isn't "prescribed". Prescriptions are overseen by a federal agency, so that would be illegal. Doctors give a "recommendation" for medical marijuana. It's like them giving you a "recommendation" to exercise more, or eat a special diet to combat your hypertension. The voters in California decided that if a doctor "recommends" that you use marijuana to help with whatever's ailing you, we can make an exception to the law for you to do that.

    Anyway -- this news from the DOJ isn't surprising, but it may just be posturing. We'll see how much they want to piss off CA when Prop 19 passes. Besides, even if they do prosecute, they're almost certainly only going to be going after people trying to grow commercially. They don't have the resources to go after people smoking in their house or growing a plant in their backyard. That's the local police's job, and they won't be doing it anymore.
  • That's the local police's job, and they won't be doing it anymore.
    In certain parts of California right now, the local police don't even enforce it that much. Possibly because a large percentage of the people growing/using personally have cards, and the police don't want to take the risk.
  • In certain parts of California right now,
    Venice Beach.
  • In certain parts of California right now,
    Venice Beach.
    The way I hear it, Palm Springs, too. Could be wrong, though.
  • Venice Beach.
    That's where they've got signs advertising "Medical recommendation, $75" and shit, right? I haven't been out to Venice in forever.
  • edited October 2010
    Venice Beach.
    That's where they've got signs advertising "Medical recommendation, $75" and shit, right? I haven't been out to Venice in forever.
    And more bong shops than you could imagine. There are cops everywhere to keep people under control, but pretty much you can just walk down the sidewalk with a joint and no one will hassle you.
    Post edited by Sail on
  • Venice Beach.
    That's where they've got signs advertising "Medical recommendation, $75" and shit, right? I haven't been out to Venice in forever.
    And more bong shops than you could imagine. There are cops everywhere to keep people under control, but pretty much you can just walk down the sidewalk with a joint and no one will hassle you.
    What if you were smoking a Marlboro?
  • Federal law overrides state law , periodas long as it is an area that the Federal government has authority to legislate in.
  • edited October 2010
    Federal law overrides state law, period. I always wondered why the feds didn't go in harder against the medical weed in Cali up until now. They went in for a little while, but then they sort of gave up when they were protested. Not that I want weed to be illegal, but I don't want to set a precedent of state law overriding federal law.
    I'm not so sure about that. Pretty much every time a challenge to a law or the enforcement of it using the 10th amendment that was successful, it was because the Federal government was trying to force a state government to enforce federal law over state law, such as New York V United states(Involving a portion of the Low-Level Radioactive Waste Policy Amendments Act), and Printz v. United States in 1997(involving the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act).

    Now that I'm looking at the information, while State law does not trump federal law thanks to the Supremacy clause, Nor does it mean that states can nullify federal law, I'm pretty sure it means that it can cause federal laws to be ruled unconstitutional, or at least, parts of them.

    However, it might also go if they do decide to try a challenge using the 10th amendment, that the federal government will invoke the commerce clause.

    As one final note - The feds DID try to go after California for Medicinal Marijuana - there were widespread raids and a large scale crackdown by federal agents that only ended last year, on Obama's order. Apparently, in 2007 alone, they conducted 50 separate raids.

    I take this opportunity to explicitly remind everyone I'm a lawyer of any sort, I'm just regurgitating information.
    Speaking of States, Churbalah, when are you going to come visit them so you can sleep on my sofa?
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • sleep on my sofa?
  • edited October 2010
    Speaking of States, Churbalah, when are you going to come visit them so you can sleep on my sofa?
    Yep - In about five hours or so, my latest pay packet will come through, and from there, a percentage is diverted into a separate account, which is essentially my "Heading to the USA" fund - And I applied for the Green Card lottery(for residency, as opposed to the kinda green card we're talking about here) three nights ago.

    Post edited by Churba on
  • *gasp* When? When?
  • *gasp* When? When?
    Well, hopefully, middle of next year or so. Depends how the money situation is - I'm only a few non-regular paychecks coming in right now, for some freelance stuff I've been doing. Trying to pin down something more regular - But don't worry, you'll know well before I get there, when I buy my ticket, I'll probably be super excited and make a big song and dance(and a thread) about it.
  • Maybe it's different in Cali, but everyone I know that gets medical in Michigan also sells it illegally (nobody really wants it though, you can get better stuff for the same or lower price, and a quarter pound of reggies comes for less than an ounce of most medical). I hope de-criminalization and legalization happen soon (I believe Detroit is about to vote on something involving weed soon), because medical is just a joke and a way for shady doctors and patients to make money as far as I can see.
  • edited October 2010
    Maybe it's different in Cali, but everyone I know that gets medical in Michigan also sells it illegally (nobody really wants it though, you can get better stuff for the same or lower price, and a quarter pound of reggies comes for less than an ounce of most medical).
    One of the reasons I'm so very skeptical about the whole marijuana thing is that it's so unregulated. How do you actually know what you're getting in either a legal shop or an illegal shop? You don't know whether you're getting a unit of good, actual marijuana, or a very little bit of very bad marijuana cut with lawn clippings, or tobacco, or parsley, or poison for that matter. Every time I hear or read about someone smoking marijuana, I have to think, "Why would you do that? You have no idea what's actually IN that stuff." It comes down to trust, I guess, but I've never seen or heard of any marijuana seller, legal or otherwise, that I would trust not to have done some sort of shenanigans with the product.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • One of the reasons I'm so very skeptical about the whole marijuana thing is that it's so unregulated. How do you actually know what you're getting in either a legal shop or an illegal shop? You don't know whether you're getting a unit of good, actual marijuana, or a very little bit of very bad marijuana cut with lawn clippings, or tobacco, or parsley, or poison for that matter. Every time I hear or read about someone smoking marijuana, I have to think, "Why would you do that? You have no idea what's actually IN that stuff." It comes down to trust, I guess, but I've never seen or heard of any marijuana seller, legal or otherwise, that I would trust not to have done some sort of shenanigans with the product.
    Considering that you work in the criminal justice system you probably encounter far more crappy drug dealers that quality ones, which may lead to your skewed view on the issue.
  • You don't know whether you're getting a unit of good, actual marijuana, or a very little bit of very bad marijuana cut with lawn clippings, or tobacco, or parsley, or poison for that matter.
    I'm guessing that you don't have a lot of experience with (by which I mean "have ever seen") quality cannabis, which is pretty much all you get in dispensaries. It can't really be "cut" with anything like grass or oregano, because it generally comes in "nug" form, which looks like this:
    image
    How would you mix grass clippings into that? Granted, you could poison it, but why the fuck would anyone want to do that? You want return customers, don't you? Really, the same goes for any kind of trying to rip your customers off. They won't come back, and word will get around, and you'll be out of business. The only people who try to pull shit like that are street dealers.
    It comes down to trust, I guess, but I've never seen or heard of any marijuana seller, legal or otherwise, that I would trust not to have done some sort of shenanigans with the product.
    Maybe, like The Tick said, your view of the situation is skewed. The vast majority of weed dealers I've encountered are just nice people providing a service for small group of friends, generally only making enough profit to smoke for free.
  • Also, you know to buy from *primary suppliers* whom you know and trust. Basically there are old hippies that grow Mary J and sell it just to cover their costs. But you defo don't want to buy the marrow that is smuggled in from Amsterdam, those guys just stuff it up their anus's. Going to Amsterdam is also a good way, but that maybe is not an option for you guys.
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