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Any thoughts on the newest reboot of DC comics?

edited June 2011 in Manga/Comics
I just found out about this. At first I thought it would be a good time to get into mainstream comics, but 52 separate titles seems a bit daunting and hard on the paycheck.
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  • So as I have mentioned before, I am a biomechanical cyborg from the future. So I know how this is how it is going to happen. The Flash ( Barry Allen) is going to be running so fast that he is going to turn into pure speed force but maintain his physical form. But made completely made up of speed force. Then Superboy Prime (wearing his suit that feeds him concentrated pure solar energy) is going to come flying right at him with his fist straight out flying near the speed of light. He punches The Flash. The Flash is exploded into speed force goo. It covers everything the entire DCU and causes it to travel through time. Starting over. So to conclude. if it weren't for my horse I wouldn't have spent that year in college.
  • edited June 2011
    Well, I'm 50/50 on it. It seems they're undoing anything Alan Moore ever wrote. I'm really not happy with Barb Gordon being Batgirl again, because Oracle was always a stronger, more interesting character, especially in light of the fact that when the question was asked of him, Dan DiDio(Di dy diddy do, doobie doobie do do dodo do doh doh de diddiy dio) said that she would never walk again. She's not Batgirl anymore - she's been Oracle for longer than she was ever Batgirl. That lead up when we found out there was such a character as Oracle, who was a genius and consummate badass, and known throughout the DCU as the best of the best - proved over and over again to be the intellectual equal of Batman, and then some. That reveal when we found out the Famous and powerful Oracle was in fact Barbera Gordon, that was a massive holy shit moment.

    And since this is a re-launch (they're very determined it's not a reboot, and we've been seeing lead-ups to things we know are going to happen in the relaunch happening in the DCU, such as oracle getting feeling back in her feet), Barbera Gordon going back to being batgirl is kinda like turning around and saying "Hey, I only bothered being some kick-ass genius because I was in a wheelchair, now that I can walk again, fuck oracle, it's back to being a Bat-Subordinate, WHEEEEEEE!"
    It is, really, undoing one of the greatest characters in the DCU with the stroke of a pen, just so we can have another Bat-Dressing jackass flinging themselves around Gotham, which at this point now has more bat-family heroes than they have ACTUAL BATS.
    Shit, Some old lady had to call the Exterminator just the other day because Azriel got stuck in her ceiling and kept banging around up there.

    Fuck that. I mean, It wouldn't be so bad if, say, she got back the ability to walk, but chose to remain as Oracle, and let Stephanie Brown continue being Batgirl(Instead of being retconned out of existence), because she has done more good, kicked more ass, and generally been better as Oracle than she ever was as Batgirl - because then she's still the interesting solo character, even if she can still walk. Hey, you get a good few storylines out of her re-adapting to walking again.

    However, Jim Lee and Geoff Johns taking over Justice League? Yeah, I'm into that. JL Dark, with vertigo heroes finally coming into main contact with the DCU? Yeah, I'm really digging that, especially with John Constantine, who has always been a favorite.

    I suppose there are upsides. I mean, it's not like they've put Harley Quinn into some ridiculous new outfit that looks like it was conceived by Rob Liefeld...
    image

    Well, Cock.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Yep. Not a lot of faith in the reboot. I never really cared about reading much of DC or Marvel anyways. I'm all about comics from Fantagraphics, Archaia, Icon, Image, Vertigo, Top Shelf, or Dark Horse to name a few. I'll pretty much just read the Batman Year One series and Hush series to get my gist of Batman and be done with it.
  • My problem with this is not that it's not a good, or at least worthwhile, idea, because I think something like this has been needed for a while. My problem is that they're going to act like this is the panacea that cures everything wrong, and then go right back to doing the same old shit.
  • I like Gail Simone and Jim Lee, so I'll probably pick up at least #1 of Firestorm and JLA. Maybe I'll pick up JSA and Batman as well.
  • Putting things the way back as the worldborn knows them in tandem with launching a huge online system where people don't have to go to comic shops to buy them is a smart move. DC, even more than Marvel, seems to go WAY up their own asses as far a stories go making them impenetrable for anyone who isn't reading two dozen other DC books. I actually kind of like reading DC crossovers with no context as it is like a Zen Koan with underwear perverts

    The problem, of course, is that in a year things will be just a convoluted and circlejerky as they are now.
  • edited June 2011
    I actually kind of like reading DC crossovers with no context as it is like a Zen Koan with underwear perverts
    Dick was sitting at the bedside of Bruce three days before his teacher's passing. Bruce had already chosen him as his successor.

    The Mansion recently had burned and Duke was busy rebuilding the structure. Bruce asked him: "What are you going to do when you get the Mansion rebuilt?"

    "When your sickness is over we want you to live there," said Dick.

    "Suppose I do not live until then?"

    "Then we will get someone else," replied Dick.

    "Suppose you cannot find anyone?" continued Bruce.

    Dick answered loudly: "Don't ask such foolish questions. I can find anyone, I'm the Goddamn Batman."
    Yes, I know Dick grayson is back to being nightwing after the Reboot launch
    Post edited by Churba on
  • While this may sound a bit fanboyish, please understand I'm a third generation DC comics reader. My grandpa read it during the golden age, my uncle during the silver age, and myself starting with the mid 70s. The biggest thing I really liked about it over the past few years is that there was this "legacy" about the DC heroes that was real. When Barry Allen died, after some time, Wally West embraced his place as Barry's successor of the Flash. Dick Grayson, the first Robin, after growing out of that came into his own as Nightwing. With his charisma and experience, this was a guy who Superman would come to for help. As Churba said with Oracle, Babs overcame her traumatic experience and became a cornerstone of the DC Universe.

    When the talk was of bringing Hal Jordan back, I didn't mind the character rehab. When Barry Allen was brought back, that is when I gave up on DC. With this re-launch, I'm going to give it a look, but as the old saying goes: "Once burned, twice shy".
  • I can start reading batman again
    and I can finally get into Flash after 17 god damn years
  • they've put Harley Quinn into some ridiculous new outfit that looks like it was conceived by Rob Liefeld...[PIC]
    image
  • I suppose there are upsides. I mean, it's not like they've put Harley Quinn into some ridiculous new outfit that looks like it was conceived by Rob Liefeld...
    There's far too much waist and not enough pouches for that to be a Liefeld.
  • edited June 2011
    There's far too much waist and not enough pouches for that to be a Liefeld.
    I'm counting eight, if you include the sheaths. Also, note the lack of feet in that picture. And I did just say the Costume, who would be foolish enough to actually let Liefeld DRAW anything.

    Oh, way, fucking EVERYONE in the 90s. Fucksake.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • I am still okay with this.
  • If this was just Ultimate DC, it'd be fine. Companies need to learn that reboots are okay as separate comic series (Like I implied before, Ultimate Marvel) and annoying when you remove all of your character's histories.

    Also, within ten years, Crisis on Infinite Infinities will cause the reboot characters to meet the old original characters and create multiple parallel earths and an evil superboy and (etc., etc.)...
  • I'm counting eight, if you include the sheaths.
    Yeah, not nearly enough. Fairly sure he still does covers for some of Marvel's stuff. It's not a bad costume, but it's not very Harley Quinn-y.
  • edited June 2011
    Yeah, not nearly enough.
    Actually, good point. And now, some select Rob Lifeld because I hate the fuckery out of each and every one of you.

    BREAKDANCING CONTEST!
    image

    RAAARGH I AM MULLET BLOODPOUCH. I HAVE NO FINGERS HOW I AM HOLD GUN.
    image

    "Oh Sure, throw that in my face" - Lady, it looks like she's trying to throw her fucking ribcage in your face. From waaaay over there. Then again, if I had enormous beer barrel legs that tapered into a tiny little en-pointe finger thing, I'd try to throw my ribcage across the room too.
    image

    What is this I don't even.
    image

    Run Franklin. Find Johnny and Ben, while I crack out a shit THE SIZE OF A FUCKING WEDDING CAKE.
    image

    I don't even know what the fuck is happening here.
    image

    This is Destractar. She destracts everyone with her enormous boobs and horrific birth defect.
    image

    This comic is the most 90s comic IN THE UNIVERSE.
    image
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Hotlink fail.
  • use imgur dude!
  • And I did just say the Costume, who would be foolish enough to actually let Liefeld DRAW anything.
    Ummmm....DC Comics? Right now?
  • And I did just say the Costume, who would be foolish enough to actually let Liefeld DRAW anything.
    Ummmm....DC Comics? Right now?
    That's got both hands and feet! And no pouches!

    Relevant Liefeldian "Arts".
  • edited June 2011
    Hotlink fail.
    I see all of them Just fine. But don't worry, girls, Churba will fix everything for you.
    Ummmm....DC Comics? Right now?
    That is relatively not bad. It's still kinda fucked up, but it's not terrible.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Okay, I can understand not being able to draw hands (unless you're a comic book artist. Wait a minute...), but you can't draw feet either? Feet are EASY. Seriously Liefeld, I hope you break your drawing hand.
  • The worst part was the guy made mad bank on his complete lack of drawing skills and pouch-infested character design. That shit is just fucked, yo.
  • The worst part was the guy made mad bank on his complete lack of drawing skills and pouch-infested character design. That shit is just fucked, yo.
    That last cover I posted up there? That's the 90s in comics for you. That's why this guy has mad bank - he was THE 90s comic book guy.
  • Going back to the DC topic, I for one am interested, if only because I can try to read Green Lantern, an idea I am very interested in but don't want to read 30 some odd years of comics to get into.
  • edited June 2011
    but you can't draw feet either? Feet are EASY.
    I'm gonna have to disagree with you there (as would most other artists, I think.) Feet are hard. They're made up of some very complex curves and structures that are really hard to get right. The hand is basically a box for a palm, a box for a base-of-thumb, and some cylinders for fingers. The arch of the foot makes the whole thing a really complex structure that isn't easy to break down into simple shapes. Liefeld is probably the most notorious feet-hider, but he's far from the only one.
    Post edited by Funfetus on
  • edited June 2011
    Going back to the DC topic, I for one am interested, if only because I can try to read Green Lantern, an idea I am very interested in but don't want to read 30 some odd years of comics to get into.
    See, I've always disagreed with this. I'm much more for the idea of Jumping on/Jumping off points - I read batman from time to time, you think I'm going to go read 40-50 years of the goddamn batman? Shit no. Dude, dead parents, dresses nothing like a bat, really good at everything, Brightly coloured sidekick to attract bullets, fights crime, got it, let's rock. You jump in right in the middle of an arc, yeah, you're not going to have any fucking clue as to what's going on - but most of the time, jump on at the start of an arc, you're fine. If you really need a leg up, just take a skim of the wiki page. If you really, really need some info, pick up a trade or two.

    And Of course, there are some that need no Explination - For example, Superman/Batman, which only requires you know a)Who Superman is in vague terms and b)who batman is in vague terms. Though, that might be because Superman/Batman is a modern version of the pure, unadulterated insanity of the gold and silver age.
    The hand is basically a box for a palm, a box for a base-of-thumb, and some cylinders for fingers.
    That...actually makes a strange sort of sense.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • edited June 2011
    The problem of the continuity is an issue, but people keep focusing on the bigness as the problem. The problem isn't that there are hundreds of issues of Batman to catch up on. Well, it is a problem, but it's not the number one problem. The number one problem is that there are also issues of Detective Comics, Batman & Robin, Batman/Superman, JLA, Gotham this, Gotham that, Outsiders, and ahhh fuck it. Not only is the quantity of the history impossible, it's non-linear!

    I just read/watched ALL of Hajime no Ippo. It's 900+chapters. The bigness was not an issue. The reason is because there is only one thing to read, and that's Hajime no Ippo. I didn't have to read One Piece to see the part where Ippo fights Red-Haired Shanks because it doesn't exist. You start reading from number one and keep going until you get to the newest number. Not only is everything simple and linear and self contained, but it's also still available.

    Look at something like Walking Dead, Invincible, The Boys, or Fables. They're really long now. Fables is on issue 104 and shows no signs of slowing down. But nobody expects you to start with the current issue of these series, they expect you to start with issue 1. It's still available in trade form, and if you like it, then you read #2 and so on. Even years from now when all those series are much longer, you will still be able to start at #1 and go forward in a straight line like a normal person. In the end when you are all caught up you will have the entire cohesive story with no missing parts. No confusion about what order to read things in. You just keep adding the number one. Sandman was the same way, and I believe it was a major factor in the accessibility of that comic.

    When you watch a serial TV show, you get a DVD box set and you start with episode 1. When you read a book series like Harry Potter you start at volume 1. Good comics are the same way, except for the fucking crazy ass superhero comics. There is some harm that is caused by the very large number of volumes, but the greater issue is the non-linearity and great effort that is required to actually read everything in order simply and without thinking. I know and you know that you can just start reading at any jumping on point and figure it out, that's because we are geeks who actively want to figure it out. The masses take the path of least resistance. Any resistance at all will turn them away because there are a billion other entertainment offerings with no friction whatsoever just inches away.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • For Bats and Superman, that makes sense, but Green Lantern's mythology is beyond thick from what I've read on Wikipedia with all the different kinds of Lanterns and people joining different groups and oaths and powers and all this crazy jazz, and somehow it results in most of the DC Universe being zombies or something.
  • edited June 2011
    I know and you know that you can just start reading at any jumping on point and figure it out, that's because we are geeks who actively want to figure it out.
    That's why they recap. A LOT. And those little boxes that they employ that guy Ed to write, that tells you which issue number they're talking about if it's necessary, or which comic line, too.

    Man, that Ed guy has a really good memory, he's been doing this for years, and he's never failed yet.
    The number one problem is that there are also issues of Detective Comics(Apparently, we need to read Detective Comics. ALL OF THEM.), Batman & Robin(Well, we'll put aside the issue of Which one, and simply say most likely a different line), Batman/Superman(A COMPLETELY different line that isn't even mainstream DCU and doesn't cross over because it's entirely BATSHIT INSANE. Fun fact - they've killed both superman and batman at least 15 times in that line. Also, they got Superman Superstoned, which was a fucking hilarious issue.), JLA(It's own line, in mainstream continuity, but distinct in focus), Gotham this, Gotham that, Outsiders, and ahhh fuck it. Not only is the quantity of the history impossible, it's non-linear!
    So, basically, you're complaining that the books reference other books, and sometimes have crossover events, which are usually announced, if not so obvious that if you can't spot them, I'm amazed you can even read in the first place.

    They used to sometimes - back in the day - crossover regular stories so that you had to pick up multiple lines. That still happens, for really big events, though each line will focus on it's own hero - You're not going to find Green Lantern's story in this month's Aquaman title, for example. But it doesn't really happen anymore, and when it does, it's usually in a way that doesn't mean you're absolutely required to pick up the other books. It's really just a good way to pick out the people who don't know much about comics, because they'll always say something like this.

    So, basically, Scott, let me get this straight. You're complaining that it's all one big unified universe, and if, say, Batman punches Green Arrow in the face, he might have a bruise on his cheek in the next Green Arrow book. Guess what - If it's a big, cohesive universe, with a single shared continuity, then shit like that happens. Yeah, you're making the comparison of Fables, and Ippo, and Harry Potter, Walking Dead, invincible, The boys, and Sandman(Which actually had spinoffs, and Canon implications outside of the Sandman books, including but not limited(specifically, of course, technically it had a permanent ripple on the universe as a whole, and I think we can expect to see more of the endless in the near future with Justice League Dark) to JLI, JSA, Infinity Inc, Swamp thing, Sandman(the other one), Hellblazer, Green arrow, The Demon, etc etc, so I guess you need to pay more attention when you read). Guess what all of those but for Sandman have in common? They all exist in their own universe. Jack horner and Mark Grayson are not catching lunch downtown. Ippo, harry potter and rick grimes did not walk into a bar and order a round of beers while smoking Red Apple cigarettes.

    Do me a favor, dude, go read up on the concept of a "Shared Universe", particularly in regards to a fictional work, and when you seem to grasp the concept, come back and try again.
    For Bats and Superman, that makes sense, but Green Lantern's mythology is beyond thick from what I've read on Wikipedia with all the different kinds of Lanterns and people joining different groups and oaths and powers and all this crazy jazz, and somehow it results in most of the DC Universe being zombies or something.
    LOL Blackest Night. That was actually a pretty good run. In all honesty, though the wiki makes it look daunting, it's not that bad in the actual books - if it's essential, most of the time, they'll cram in an explanation or reference to where you can find out at least once per arc. And they don't just shove every lantern in there, every issue, all the time, they come and go from time to time, but the main focus of the Lantern books is Earth's green lantern - or at least, his adventures. He'll run into people along the way, but you pick it up pretty quick, it's not that bad.
    Post edited by Churba on
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