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GeekNights 070620 - Neon Genesis Evangelion

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  • O.K. I'm one of the few who thinks Eva is overrated, (btw, I don't think it's evANGELion, more like evangelic -> evangelion, maybe evangelio(in spanish)-> evangelion), as most people try to read too much into it, every freaking detail is questioned.

    You want some mental stuff, try Serial Experiments Lain (to mention another old anime), I think it achieves the dark, mental, metaphor of life, thing better than eva.

    Also, pronounce the damned thing as you wish, soft g, hard g, as long as you understand, its ok..., you're not in Japan as much as you wish it to be so, if you speak english, in a english speaking country, pronounce it in english.
  • Ae-van-jelly-on.
  • edited June 2007
    I watched this when I was a younger, more stupid anime fan, and I was all like "ÖMG eva is teh cool" now that I think about it, it's just insanely over-rated. If I wanted to watch something that'd make me think about my humanity and depress me, I'd watch something from Tomino. Maybe Gundam V or the original gundam series, but I personally think eva is not worth the trouble nor the hype it's surrounded by. I also don't get why it's so damn popular.On another note, I may sound like an asshole, but I think Tomino set the precedents eva was supposed to have set, so i think Tomino is more original than Anno (Tomino was also first, so yeah, I guess he wins by default?)
    Post edited by tissuekins on
  • I actually get why it became so popular, you see (at least speaking for myself) most none-Japanese people grew up with what? Sailor moon, Dragon Ball, Dragon ball Z and GT, Gundam, Ranma, Mazinger, Speed Racer, Voltron, etc. (I'm talking mainstream TV, no fansubs) and Eva, was actually one of the first adult-ish anime to be ported to TV overseas along with "Fist of the north star" and "Ninja Scroll" (for late night TV), so it was the first time that teenage boys and girls were exposed to more complex plots and BLOOD!, thus helping destroy the whole "animation is for kids" thing. So it's kinda the pioneer in that way, so it's got a really big fan base for it, and also its not that bad overall.
  • Well, I'm gonna watch it again, cause, well, I don't want to be a pundit, but i still think Tomino did what Anno tried to do, but Anno just had a better chance I guess. I also heard Ideon had the same concepts as eva, anyone wanna validate this?
  • I also heard Ideon had the same concepts as eva, anyone wanna validate this?
    I watched one episode of Ideon, and it seemed like a typical robot show.
  • edited June 2007
    I heard everyone dies at the end(whoops spoilers); Tomino likes to familiarize people with his characters, then kill them. Sorry Apreche: I'd rather hear from someone who's watched the whole series. There's also an interesting bit on the Ideon entry on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideon
    Post edited by Rym on
  • We really need a spoiler/hidden text tag handy so people are not assholes with spoilers.

    The only time I ever mention spoilers of anything I added a tag screaming SPOILER!
  • edited June 2007
    Cheapest way to...
    Spoilers! Highlight it! [put white text in brackets]. Seeing how the background is white. Then again, the quote box.
    Unless there is a true spoilers tag available.
    Post edited by omegafinal on
  • edited June 2007
    I'm sorry: sometimes I have asshole-ish tendencies.  I swear I won't do it again.
    Post edited by Rym on
  • EVA is to anime what Star Trek is to Sci-fi. Even though I don't like EVA that much.
  • (btw, I don't think it's evANGELion, more like evangelic -> evangelion, maybe evangelio(in spanish)-> evangelion),


    They have the same root IIRC.... both come from the greek angelos, messenger. Angel as we use it is "messenger of god" and evangelic is ex plus angel - to spread the message outward.  [/overly-pedantic-and-totally-pointless-derail]
  • edited June 2007
    I agree with most of your points regarding Eva being awesome, but I strongly disagree with your appraisal of the ending. It presented some interesting existentialist philosophy (and a heavy dose of alcoholics anonymous trite).

    Yet it's not fair to say that the climax of the plot surrounding this message is unimportant. I don't watch anime of this type just to get a fix of epistemology; I watch anime of this type to get a fix of philosophy wrapped in a cool plot with interesting characters. Because the original episodes only contained a message with very tenuous links to the actual plot, I felt like I was cheated out of half the experience.

    For this reason I strongly prefer Air and A Pure Heart for You to episodes 25 and 26 of the series. The replacement episodes present a similar message only in a much darker and more interesting fashion, all without forcing the plot to a grinding halt.

    I love Eva; the show is certainly in my top three. But I honestly prefer to forget that the original episodes 25 and 26 ever existed.

    The final scene in A Pure Heart for You unsettled me very deeply; the final scene in Take Care of Yourself made me gag.



    Edit: I'd like to amend my final statement slightly by saying that episodes 25 and 26 aren't total failures, they do present some interesting material and are worth watching at least once. It's simply that in the face of the total awesomeness that was Eva episodes 1-24 they were a heartbreaking letdown. I personally feel that Air and A Pure Heart for You are far better closing chapters to something that's near and dear to alot of anime fans.

    It could be that I just possess an inherent aversion to schmaltzy endings, "It's not meaningful unless it's depressing."
    Post edited by ironzealot on
  • edited June 2007
    Yet it's not fair to say that the climax of the plot surrounding this message is unimportant.
    This is actually something I have been discussing a lot lately. I think I found the answer from listening to an episode of Comic Geek Speak where they interviewed writer Matt Fraction. For the record, I'm not a big fan of his comics, but he does awesome interviews.

    Anyway, in the interview someone commented that they didn't "get" his new book Casanova. He basically only enjoyed the book on the surface level, and realized there was some deeper level he couldn't get to. Matt said something very smart. He said that while it is good for a work of art to be symbolic and have a deeper meaning, if it doesn't also work on the surface, then it fails on that level.

    I think I agree with Matt here. A story, in any medium, needs to work on all levels to really be the full awesome. Look at something like Initial D and how it only works on the surface level and completely fails on the deeper levels. That's no different than the original Eva ending which succeeds on the deep level and fails on the surface level. Look at the works which we consider to be all-time greats like Watchmen and The Godfather. They succeed on both levels simultaneously. It's not necessary for everything to do this, but it is definitely a sign of greatness. While Evangelion is still a terrific show, I have to agree that the original ending does fail on the surface level.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • I remember I saw this show fansubbed back in high school. It was in some funky even by then abandoned Real format that I was super lucky to find the player for. The original ending got me so angry, I was ranting for a good half hour or so after. It seemed so corny and.....well, not what I wanted. I haven't watched anything Eva since, I felt that he ended the show and that should have been the ending, you don't do what amount to mulligans with a show like that.
  • Oh... you are talking about the oh so famous VIVO format
  • I think so, that sounds about right
  • Yeah, Eva was the first and only anime I saw encoded in that crap, you could fit the whole 26 episodes and one movie in a single 650Mb CD, I still remember making copies of it on my 4X (top of the line at the time) burner, it took like 30minutes per copy... good times...
  • I just finished the 26 episodes of Eva, I still have the replacement episodes to watch, but I gotta say I really liked the show. Even though I don't think I understand exactly what was going on (especially in those last two episodes,) but I did really like and enjoy the whole thing.
  • I remember watching it on Adult Swim probably half a year ago, and simply not getting the ending at all. I guess I just wasn't paying enough attention to it below the surface of the work. But more to the point: Damn you! Now I have to watch it again!
  • I remember watching it on Adult Swim probably half a year ago, and simply not getting the ending at all. I guess I just wasn't paying enough attention to it below the surface of the work. But more to the point: Damn you! Now I have to watch it again!
    My guess is that the Adult Swim version was also dubbed and edited, so you can't expect to get the real experience from that kind of viewing.
  • edited June 2007
    I remember watching it on Adult Swim probably half a year ago, and simply not getting the ending at all. I guess I just wasn't paying enough attention to it below the surface of the work. But more to the point: Damn you! Now I have to watch it again!
    My guess is that the Adult Swim version was also dubbed and edited, so you can't expect to get the real experience from that kind of viewing.
    I'm sure it was dubbed, but they wouldn't have edited it. The Cartoon Network editing only really goes on during the "Toonami" block where they show stuff like Naruto. And I've watched the dub; it really isn't too bad at all.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • edited June 2007
    I'm sure it was dubbed, but they wouldn't of edited it. The Cartoon Network editing only really goes on during the "Toonami" block where they show stuff like Naruto. And I've watched the dub; it really isn't too bad at all.
    Indeed, Eva is one of those rare anime that I can watch dubbed and not feel like I'm experienceing a watered down anime. The dubbing is actually quite good, and I recommend to those skeptical that you watch a few episodes of eva with the dubs on. I really have no preference with this one.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Someone should really make a list of good dubs, but thats for another thread.

    Having thought about the series as a whole (the 26 episodes) for about a day, I have to say that I feel I understand the show more but I don't necessarily think its all that great. Maybe it was because I was expecting something more from the hype, or maybe I'm missing something, but I feel I've definitely seen better, a good number better.
  • Someone should really make a list of good dubs, but thats for another thread.
    Wish granted.
  • You know, I think one of my favorite things about Eva is one fan fiction it spawned. If you like Lovecraft, and you like Eva, and like me you think combining the two is a transparently a good idea you'll probably like this its part of the 1% of fanfic thats worth reading.
  • *Sigh*

    I really hope a buddy was kidding - and at the very least it was an accident - but he potentially told me the ending to Eva - if what he said is true, I will fly from Alberta to Vermont and rip out his god damn heart.
  • I watched Eva as my Blockbuster got the tapes, back in the day. The first couple of tapes had me hooked, but good. The next to last tape was like: " Oh shit, its hitting the fan now! How are they going to get out of this mess?" The last tape left me saying " Fuck this shit. I don't know what just happened, and if they are going to spring this stupid shit one me, I don't reallt care. I'm gonne watch the 'DDR' episode again, and call THAT the fucking ending."

    So, I recently watched the two replacement episodes, and said to myself: "Self, this is awesome." then I saw the end, and how it ended, and realized something. That sort of ending should be evident at the begining of a show. It should't be all happy go lucky kids in robots, and then THAT. A good example would be this BBC miniseries from around 2000 or so. It was shown on the SciFi channel, and you knew damn well that the Brits, along with the rest of the world, were fucked from the word go.

    Plus, you could have replaced the psuedo-pilosophical original 25 and 26 with the ending to Akira at the begining of the animated black and white concentric circles BULLSHIT, and no one would have noticed if you had the Eva voice actors doing the same dialogue. And we all know how I feel about the Akira movie...
  • So are the alternate episodes "Death & Rebirth" or "End of Evangelion"? Please excuse my ignorance.
  • So are the alternate episodes "Death & Rebirth" or "End of Evangelion"? Please excuse my ignorance.
    No. Death and Rebirth is basically just a recap of the whole series. There is some other stuff, but it's not important.
    End of Evangelion is the movie that has the two alternate episodes: Air and A Pure Heart for You/ONE MORE FINAL: And I Love You.
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