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GeekNights 071121 - Hentai

RymRym
edited November 2007 in Anime
Tonight on GeekNights, we discuss hentai in all its... glory? In the news, we don't have any news (other than Death Note coming out), so Rym throws down a GeekBack and Scott throws out a GeekBite.
Scott's Thing - How creativity is being strangled by the law

Rym's Thing - This man exists.
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Comments

  • edited November 2007
    ANN got you for hotlinking on that TotD, Rym.

    [Edit] This is it, right?
    Post edited by Sail on
  • ANN got you for hotlinking on that TotD, Rym.
    That wasn't hotlinking, it was direct linking.  There's a subtle difference. ^_~
  • ANN got you for hotlinking on that TotD, Rym.

    That wasn't hotlinking, it wasdirectlinking. There's a subtle difference. ^_~

    Very subtle.
  • I hope you don't go into detail on this.
  • edited November 2007
    Anyone who cares about figurines and Death Note should definitely pick up the limited edition versions of the DVDs, the Ryuk figurine in the first release is quite high-quality.
    Post edited by Li_Akahi on
  • This episode was kind of 'meh'. I knew your opinions on hentai already, and there weren't many funny anecdotes  so I think you could have done the main bit in 5 minutes.
    By the by Scott, great thing of the day
  • OH GOOD GOD!

    What a CREEPY COMIC!!!!! :O
  • edited November 2007
    I really do not remember any hentai parts on a Wind named Amnesia?
    However I will say that the best hentais out there are done by U-Jin. Because, they were hilarious. Not so much his recent works though.
    Post edited by Erwin on
  • edited November 2007
    I have some Hentai shows in my DVD Collection.
    Post edited by N15PCA on
  • So i listened to Rym's geekback and i have to say, i agree perfectly with the Remu fellow. First of all, there is nothing wrong with shounen fighting anime plots nor is there anything wrong with drawn out fighting. Drawing out scenes serves to develop suspense while the plots, though it can be trite and dumb, can still be effectively entertaining. The plot in Naruto is actually pretty good for being so simple. Not everything has to be a Parprika or Evangelion mind rape. In the end everything comes down to personal preference and yours is as valid as everyones else's. However, it is very annoying to have such a condescending tone to the people who like it. Does Scrym truly not see why people like shonen anime's and that everyone who likes it is weird? Maybe it is Scyrm who are weird.

    Also, Akagi is an awesome anime. Do not listen to Scrym, everyone should at least give it a try. (you do not need to know how to play Mahjong to enjoy, though it does help) I grew up playing mahjong and I do admit that it can be figured out to play optimally once you understand the concept and probability calculations. In the end, luck comes into play more than skill. However, the way Akagi portrays its Mahjong games makes it as if there is indeed a lot skill involved, regardless of whether there is in actuality or not. Because of this, the slow pace and commentary is required by the anime to achieve its suspenseful edge-of-your-seat action. Remus is not exagerating when he says Akagi utilizes the method masterfully. Mahjong is in itself a boring game to watch but they are able to make it so entertaining, it is unbelievable. You also compare it to Hikaru no Go. HnG is also very good due to its story but that actual games of Go are boring. I also know how to play Go but because the game is very complex, when someone does an amazing move, you can not immediately understand how amazing a move it is. I find myself having to pause often in order to examine the board just to understand what everyone is screaming about. Akagi, on the other hand, has the perfect pace to give you enough time to understand what is going on. Of course, Mahjong is a much simpler game than Go so i give HnG plenty of slack, but in the end I enjoyed Akagi much more because of the way the draw it out. HnG, i believe, could also benefit if it focused more on the actual games.

    Scrym's tastes are their own and i respect/understand them but they speak as if their views are correct and that every should be like them (Scott more than Rym). I have seen every anime that they have recommended and found them to all float around mediocrity. Whats worse is that they resemble the precise problems that they complain about. Trigun and Utena, for example, is basically nothing until near the end. Talk about only getting good 14 episodes in, try only getting good until the last 5 episodes and even then, it is subpar. Everything before that is just plain uninteresting. They complain about how Shounen fighting sucks because of its monster of the week style, how is Utena and Evangelion not just the duel/monster of the week? At least shounen battles makes sense (random cars and moving tables, wtf?). Also, how are the epic battles in, say Naruto, in anyway inferior to the retarded 30 second battles in Trigun or Utena? Are people so crazy to prefer cool awesome fight scenes over the sorry excuses for duels in Utena? (i'm going to lunge at you and flash the screen to end this, every time) Compare the epic Naruto vs Sasuke battle to any fight in Trigun or Utena and tell me which is better. They also complain how stupid it is that shounen fighting just makes up moves to counter other moves but how else can the characters overcome obstacles? Furthermore, how is this bad? I found myself greatly entertained and impressed when someone pulls out a new badass ability. You know what i think is stupid and made up from nowhere? The retarded fake science in Escaflowne. I mean, enhanced luck soldiers and fate particles? Come on Scyrm! I enjoyed the anime up until then but the last few episodes where so absurd that i felt like they were taking their audiences for 3 year olds.

    Oh noes, i guess i wont have Scott's respect anymore. My life will no longer have meaning.
  • Drawing out scenes serves to develop suspense while the plots, though it can be trite and dumb, can still be effectively entertaining.
    In the vast majority of shonen fighting shows, drawing-out scenes doesn't create suspense for shit. It's a time-waster meant to push the episode count of the given show as high as possible, a fact which is painfully obvious most of the time.
    Also, how are the epic battles in, say Naruto, in anyway inferior to the retarded 30 second battles in Trigun or Utena?
    "Epic" as in time-wise? There wasn't a single battle in Naruto where I was anywhere near the edge of my seat. I have nothing to say on Trigun or Utena, but short fights tend to have better choreography and a smoother progression overall.
    They also complain how stupid it is that shounen fighting just makes up moves to counter other moves but how else can the characters overcome obstacles?
    By implementing their existing repertoire of techniques and strategies in new and clever ways rather than pulling "secret or forbidden techniques" out of their ass.
    Furthermore, how is this bad? I found myself greatly entertained and impressed when someone pulls out a new badass ability.
    It's bad because it's a cop out. Deus ex Machina in excess, so to speak. How is the viewer supposed to feel any sort of suspense when they know there's a 9/10 chance that the hero is just going to pull a mile long sword out of their ass and chop the world in half or survive fighting an enemy that should obviously kill them because of some fluke or mystical force that's protecting them?
  • Tokyo, 1958. A man seriously gambles at a mahjong parlor. He`s playing against members of the Ryuzaki yakuza clan. If he loses, he must pay his debt through his own life insurance – truly a game of life and death. With his own existence at stake, he can only play passively, and the game comes to a head. Suddenly, a mysterious boy appears. His name is Akagi, a thirteen-year-old kid. The man senses a strong aura around the youth and decides to have Akagi substitute for him in the next round. Although Akagi knows nothing about mahjong, his natural talent and daring approach finally win the game. This is only the beginning for Akagi, who continues to face various opponents and becomes a legendary mahjong substitute player in the gambling underworld.
    God, the synopsis alone is mind rapingly boring. They actually try to make it look like it's some awesome "OMG! 13 year old kid saves the world!" kind of anime. One Sin pretty much said the rest I wanted to say. The winner in a Shonen Fighting show is just the best at pulling random shit out of his ass and use it with instant complete knowledge against his opponent.
  • edited November 2007
    In the vast majority of shonen fighting shows, drawing-out scenes doesn't create suspense for shit. It's a time-waster meant to push the episode count of the given show as high as possible, a fact which is painfully obvious most of the time.
    This is true. It can be very painful to watch through episodes that are purposefully stretched out and is does take away from the actual story. This is a very valid argument. At the same time though, incredibly short battles are also lame when everything ends in a few seconds and you dont get to see any good action going on. Personally, i'd rather see a drawn out battle than an incredibly short one.
    "Epic" as in time-wise? There wasn't a single battle in Naruto where I was anywhere near the edge of my seat. I have nothing to say on Trigun or Utena, but short fights tend to have better choreography and a smoother progression overall.
    This is just personal preference. I really enjoyed the battles in Naruto/Bleach like animes. Apparently you have not seen Trigun or Utena, their battle scenes are crap and not choreographed at all. Even then, with good choreography it does not build up suspense in the way a longer fight can. Take Airmaster, for example. It has arguably some of the best fighting choreography in an anime but because they are short, they are not as suspensful or interesting, imo, than longer fights.
    By implementing their existing repertoire of techniques and strategies in new and clever ways rather than pulling "secret or forbidden techniques" out of their ass.
    Have you not seen Naruto? This is precisely what they do. The characters do create new ways to use their abilities. Take any of Shikamaru's battles for example. Furthermore, the characters never really pull out a random ability from their ass, they are all abilities that they already knew from the start of the anime that the audience does not know about. How interesting would it be if your told the exact abilities of each characters? Instead they surprise you with something unexpected.
    It's bad because it's a cop out. Deus ex Machina in excess, so to speak. How is the viewer supposed to feel any sort of suspense when they know there's a 9/10 chance that the hero is just going to pull a mile long sword out of their ass and chop the world in half or survive fighting an enemy that should obviously kill them because of some fluke or mystical force that's protecting them?
    It would be kind of dumb if that was the only thing that happens but it isnt. To be honest, i'm not even sure what exactly you are talking about. Scrym mentioned one instance in Naruto and people are assuming that its the only thing that happens. The example he mentioned is just basically Sasuke using a move that he has always known and using it in conjunction with Naruto's ability. How is this not "implementing their existing repertoire of techniques and strategies in new and clever ways"?
    God, the synopsis alone is mind rapingly boring. They actually try to make it look like it's some awesome "OMG! 13 year old kid saves the world!" kind of anime. One Sin pretty much said the rest I wanted to say. The winner in a Shonen Fighting show is just the best at pulling random shit out of his ass and use it with instant complete knowledge against his opponent.
    While i admit the plot of Akagi is kind of dumb, that is not the point i'm trying to make. What i'm saying is that it draws out a mahjong game through multiple episodes to great effect, showing that this technique is not always bad. They are able to make a game that is boring to watch into something fairly interesting.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • edited November 2007
    It is not possible to have a feeling of suspense in long drawn out battles, like those in Naruto or Akagi, unless you suspend your intellect, or don't have intellect to begin with. The result is always obvious. Nothing that happens in the long and drawn out battle actually matters except for whatever happens at the very end. It's the same with professional wrestling. It doesn't matter even if you see Naruto getting every bone in his body broken for 5 episodes. The only thing that matters is what happens in the final 5 seconds of that battle.

    The only way you can get a feeling of suspense is if you force yourself to pretend that the things happening during the battle actually do matter, or if you don't realize they don't matter in the first place. A drawn out battle is nothing more than just boring waiting for something that actually matters to happen.

    This is why we like Cowboy Bebop style battling. It is short, so no boring waiting. Almost everything that happens in the battle matters. Even when things in the battle do not matter, there is at least interesting and entertaining animation and choreography.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • edited November 2007
    By implementing their existing repertoire of techniques and strategies in new and clever ways rather than pulling "secret or forbidden techniques" out of their ass.
    Have you not seen Naruto? This is precisely what they do. The characters do create new ways to use their abilities. Take any of Shikamaru's battles for example. Furthermore, the characters never really pull out a random ability from their ass, they are all abilities that they already knew from the start of the anime that the audience does not know about. How interesting would it be if your told the exact abilities of each characters? Instead they surprise you with something unexpected.
    It is called "pulling abilities out of their ass." If the audience doesn't know, the creators can make up any ability they want and pretend the character already knew it. The only exception is Shikamaru, because he is the only good character in all of Naruto.
    It's bad because it's a cop out. Deus ex Machina in excess, so to speak. How is the viewer supposed to feel any sort of suspense when they know there's a 9/10 chance that the hero is just going to pull a mile long sword out of their ass and chop the world in half or survive fighting an enemy that should obviously kill them because of some fluke or mystical force that's protecting them?
    It would be kind of dumb if that was the only thing that happens but it isnt. To be honest, i'm not even sure what exactly you are talking about. Scrym mentioned one instance in Naruto and people are assuming that its the only thing that happens. The example he mentioned is just basically Sasuke using a move that he has always known and using it in conjunction with Naruto's ability. How is this not "implementing their existing repertoire of techniques and strategies in new and clever ways"?
    Because Sasuke never had used the ability before (and he never has in any other place in all of Naruto), which makes it fairly obvious that the ability was made up on the spot.
    "Epic" as in time-wise? There wasn't a single battle in Naruto where I was anywhere near the edge of my seat. I have nothing to say on Trigun or Utena, but short fights tend to have better choreography and a smoother progression overall.
    This is just personal preference. I really enjoyed the battles in Naruto/Bleach like animes. Apparently you have not seen Trigun or Utena, their battle scenes are crap and not choreographed at all.
    First, Trigun mainly uses gunfights (which don't really need choreography anyways), and second, If you think the fights are the important parts of Trigun, you're missing the point.
    Post edited by Linkigi(Link-ee-jee) on
  • ......
    edited November 2007
    While i admit the plot of Akagi is kind of dumb, that is not the point i'm trying to make. What i'm saying is that it draws out a mahjong game through multiple episodes to great effect, showing that this technique is not always bad. They are able to make a game that is boring to watch into something fairly interesting.
    BUT THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO MAKE IS SOUND LIKE IT'S AN AMAZING FEAT TO PLAY MAHJONG AND WIN! Sorry for caps lock is Tom Cruise control for cool.

    Also, filler episodes are awesome.[/sarcasm] What is the ratio of filler to story episodes in Naruto, Bleach and/or One Piece atm?
    Post edited by ... on
  • While i admit the plot of Akagi is kind of dumb, that is not the point i'm trying to make. What i'm saying is that it draws out a mahjong game through multiple episodes to great effect, showing that this technique is not always bad. They are able to make a game that is boring to watch into something fairly interesting.
    BUT THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO MAKE IS SOUND LIKE IT'S AN AMAZING FEAT TO PLAY MAHJONG AND WIN! Sorry for caps lock is Tom Cruise control for cool.

    Also, filler episodes are awesome.[/sarcasm] What is the ratio of filler to story episodes in Naruto, Bleach and/or One Piece atm?
    One Piece, I don't know. Bleach is about one to two, and Naruto is two to three.
  • It is not possible to have a feeling of suspense in long drawn out battles, like those in Naruto or Akagi, unless you suspend your intellect, or don't have intellect to begin with. The result is always obvious. Nothing that happens in the long and drawn out battle actually matters except for whatever happens at the very end. It's the same with professional wrestling. It doesn't matter even if you see Naruto getting every bone in his body broken for 5 episodes. The only thing that matters is what happens in the final 5 seconds of that battle.

    The only way you can get a feeling of suspense is if you force yourself to pretend that the things happening during the battle actually do matter, or if you don't realize they don't matter in the first place. A drawn out battle is nothing more than just boring waiting for something that actually matters to happen.

    This is why we like Cowboy Bebop style battling. It is short, so no boring waiting. Almost everything that happens in the battle matters. Even when things in the battle do not matter, there is at least interesting and entertaining animation and choreography.
    Of course you know what going to happen in the end. obviously the good guy will beat the bad guy. What is suspenseful is how they manage to get out. Sure, pulling out random moves maybe a copout, but it is still entertaining. Also, Scott, I think you are missing the point to shounen fighting. One of the reasons to watch is for the fighting aspect. Of course the only thing that matters is the end, but the enjoyement comes from watching the characters battle it out. This is why longer battles are better, you get to see more action.
  • The battles can get so long, they simply cease to be entertaining. I feel the need to bring up the final battle in the "save Sasuke" arc, which lasts five entire episodes, while the actual fight constitutes about one. It pissed me off, and I don't know why I sat through it all anymore.
  • Of course the only thing that matters is the end, but the enjoyement comes from watching the characters battle it out. This is why longer battles are better, you get to see more action.
    The problem is that these "longer battles" don't even have that much action. They're mostly just panning across faces, flashes, explosions, and a few still frames. The only shounen fighting show I've ever seen with fights that aren't boring or long and drawn out is Hajime no Ippo(a.k.a. Fighting Spirit.)
  • Of course you know what going to happen in the end. obviously the good guy will beat the bad guy. What is suspenseful is how they manage to get out. Sure, pulling out random moves maybe a copout, but it is still entertaining. Also, Scott, I think you are missing the point to shounen fighting. One of the reasons to watch is for the fighting aspect. Of course the only thing that matters is the end, but the enjoyement comes from watching the characters battle it out. This is why longer battles are better, you get to see more action.
    I understand that long drawn out battles are the point of shonen fighting shows. That's why I don't like them.
  • edited November 2007
    At the same time though, incredibly short battles are also lame when everything ends in a few seconds and you dont get to see any good action going on. Personally, i'd rather see a drawn out battle than an incredibly short one.
    Jolly good for you. However, good action is exactly what you see. Short fights, as the name implies, are short. This is unfortunate, but it can't be helped as any fight going over a few minutes causes viewers to mellow-out, so to speak. Eventually, the initial thrill wears thin, which is why I prefer my fights in the 1-2 minute range with five being the typical limit.
    This is just personal preference. I really enjoyed the battles in Naruto/Bleach like animes. Apparently you have not seen Trigun or Utena, their battle scenes are crap and not choreographed at all. Even then, with good choreography it does not build up suspense in the way a longer fight can. Take Airmaster, for example. It has arguably some of the best fighting choreography in an anime but because they are short, they are not as suspensful or interesting, imo, than longer fights.
    Actually, I have seen Trigun. I simply didn't consider it as an example for my case.
    Have you not seen Naruto? This is precisely what they do. The characters do create new ways to use their abilities. Furthermore, the characters never really pull out a random ability from their ass, they are all abilities that they already knew from the start of the anime that the audience does not know about. How interesting would it be if your told the exact abilities of each characters? Instead they surprise you with something unexpected.
    Linkigi has said everything i had to say on this.
    To be honest, i'm not even sure what exactly you are talking about.
    Example 1 (Bleach): Ichigo's first encounter with Byakuya. Miraculous recovery from a fatal wound sustained in combat with a vastly superior opponent.

    Example 2 (Naruto): Naruto vs Neji in the exam. Randomly pulls out the ol' Nine-tailed fox to defeat a vastly superior opponent who was owning him mere moments before.

    Example 3 (Saint Seiya in general): No one can stay dead no matter how badly they're messed-up.

    Need me to keep going?
    Post edited by One Sin on
  • edited November 2007
    It is called "pulling abilities out of their ass." If the audience doesn't know, the creators can make up any ability they want and pretend the character already knew it. The only exception is Shikamaru, because he is the only good character in all of Naruto.
    Now, I'm probably going to receive a lot of flames for this, but I agree with iruul on this point.

    In some of the Naruto episodes I've seen (the one where they're in the forest, fighting those Four Sound Ninjas), the fights are relatively fast paced, fairly well-choreographed, and entertaining to watch. I think the point of those fights were to showcase the natural progression of each character's abilities and how each character would deal in such an impossible situation. They weren't pulling abilities out of their ass because the abilities used in this arc were all used by their parents in an earlier episode. It was interesting to see how every character was slowly growing up and becoming just like, but completely different from, their parents.

    Also, the situations were quite entertaining. It's fun to see a character like Neji, who is used to being the condescending elite genius, facing an opponent that was obviously out of his league. It's fun to see Kiba, a character who took advantage of his opponents by outnumbering them with his dog/beast clone, fight an incredibly powerful ninja who can split into two. It's fun to see Chouji, a rotund glutton who has a ridiculously stupid clan ability, actually fight. The fighting wasn't cerebral, but sometimes you just have to lay back and watch the fights as they go. It's about as fun as watching wrestling or UFC, you know it's either fake or heavily mediated, but it's still enjoyable to watch.

    I'm probably not as pissed off at Naruto as most of you are, since my friends only really showed me the most important episodes (cutting it down to about 25-35 episodes).
    Example 2 (Naruto): Naruto vs Neji in the exam. Randomly pulls out the ol' Nine-tailed fox to defeat a vastly superior opponent who was owning him mere moments before.
    Well, keep in mind that harnessing the Nine-Tailed Fox was the only way for Naruto to unblock his chakra points. Also, what REALLY beat Neji was Naruto's usage of the Shadow Clone to fake his defeat, catch Neji by surprise, and ultimately attack him from underground with a direct uppercut.
    Post edited by VentureJ on
  • edited November 2007

    The thing about Saint Seiya is that they are not allowed to die, not ever. And come, on would you let this pretty face die :P

    But really, they just won't die!

    But in defense of Saint Seiya, all the batlles on the 12 houses only lasted a couple of episodes :P

    Post edited by Erwin on
  • edited November 2007

    The thing about Saint Seiya is that they are not allowed to die, not ever. And come, on would you let this pretty face die :P

    I'd kill him myself. :p
    It is called "pulling abilities out of their ass." If the audience doesn't know, the creators can make up any ability they want and pretend the character already knew it. The only exception is Shikamaru, because he is the only good character in all of Naruto.
    Now, I'm probably going to receive a lot of flames for this, but I agree with iruul on this point.

    In some of the Naruto episodes I've seen (the one where they're in the forest, fighting those Four Sound Ninjas), the fights are relatively fast paced, fairly well-choreographed, and entertaining to watch. I think the point of those fights were to showcase the natural progression of each character's abilities and how each character would deal in such an impossible situation. They weren't pulling abilities out of their ass because the abilities used in this arc were all used by their parents in an earlier episode. It was interesting to see how every character was slowly growing up and becoming just like, but completely different from, their parents.

    Also, the situations were quite entertaining. It's fun to see a character like Neji, who is used to being the condescending elite genius, facing an opponent that was obviously out of his league. It's fun to see Kiba, a character who took advantage of his opponents by outnumbering them with his dog/beast clone, fight an incredibly powerful ninja who can split into two. It's fun to see Chouji, a rotund glutton who has a ridiculously stupid clan ability, actually fight. The fighting wasn't cerebral, but sometimes you just have to lay back and watch the fights as they go. It's about as fun as watching wrestling or UFC, you know it's either fake or heavily mediated, but it's still enjoyable to watch.
    Actually, Chouji's pills and Shikamaru's light grenade were entirely new. However, that arc gets into real trouble when they go into three or four battles at once, and it starts to wear and really get annoying. Also, the last three fights are all wrapped up with this ridiculous deus ex machina. Finally, they (as always) have way too many flashbacks, so half of the episodes there's not even any fighting going on.
    Post edited by Linkigi(Link-ee-jee) on
  • edited November 2007
    Haha, I wasn't aware of the numerous amounts of flashbacks. I guess my friends didn't bother to show them to me. I think I only saw one episode of flashback, with Sasuke and his brother.

    Also, I really liked the stylish way they brought Sand Ninjas in. I didn't think they messed that up at all.
    Post edited by VentureJ on
  • It was still a ridiculous deus ex machina, and even more so because of the "stylish" way they brought them in.
  • edited November 2007
    "Epic" as in time-wise? There wasn't a single battle in Naruto where I was anywhere near the edge of my seat. I have nothing to say on Trigun or Utena, but short fights tend to have better choreography and a smoother progression overall.
    This is just personal preference. I really enjoyed the battles in Naruto/Bleach like animes. Apparently you have not seen Trigun or Utena, their battle scenes are crap and not choreographed at all.
    I just have to step in here and chime in with linkigi. As with Trigun, the actual fights in Utena are so far from the point of the story that heavily faulting the show for its bad choreography and lack of action (which are both technically true) is ridiculous. It's like saying Citizen Kane is a terrible movie because it didn't have any fights or explosions. The duels in Utena are short and not always the best to look at, but the character developing build-up before the fight in a given episode, the psychological analysis that can be drawn from that characters' actions and what drove them to duel for the Rose Bride, the deeper reasons (and not the straight-up techniques) behind why Utena ultimately wins most duels, what all of the things that transpire in the series mean in the end - these are all far more important than the physical actions taken in the duels.

    Hell, a lot of the duels themselves are way more about the significant dialogue and specific imagery presented than about the physical actions that are taking place around them. Big example of such: the fierce back-and-forth dialogue between Utena and Juri during their duel, quick flashes of Shiori in Juri's mind, and the miraculous spearing of Juri's rose to the ground at the end of it. Utena and Juri's second duel is even more significant, but I won't describe it here so as not to spoil it for those who haven't watched that far in the series. And no, the spoiler isn't that Utena wins.

    Also, there is the factor of stock footage in the Utena duels. As anyone who has watched the series knows, the series was on a low budget and thus forced to re-use a ton of animation to save money, especially in the duels. However, despite the fact that the production staff had to re-use footage, they managed to use such footage in a way that has an enormous effect that especially becomes apparent later in the series. In regards to the duels, the re-used footage seems to reinforce the fact that the actions taken in the duel don't matter - the actions in the duels are similar every time, nearly identical in a lot of cases. That seems to symbolize a literal "revolution" (going around in circles), and implies that they are essentially pointless. Not to give anything away, but that pointlessness becomes a big concept in the series that comes even more into play in the series' final episodes. Even if you take the symbolism and such out of the equation, it still stands that the staff felt the duels were not as important to spend money on as other things in the series were.
    Of course you know what going to happen in the end. obviously the good guy will beat the bad guy. What is suspenseful is how they manage to get out. Sure, pulling out random moves maybe a copout, but it is still entertaining. Also, Scott, I think you are missing the point to shounen fighting. One of the reasons to watch is for the fighting aspect. Of course the only thing that matters is the end, but the enjoyement comes from watching the characters battle it out. This is why longer battles are better, you get to see more action.
    However, as you so helpfully pointed out earlier, that sort of thing comes down to personal preference. You prefer good action and lots of it for long periods of time, and that's fine - it's your preference. I will agree that the way Scrym talked in this episode, they made it sound as though their preferences are the gold standard that everyone should follow, and maybe they should have toned that down a bit. You can't just turn around and do the same thing, though, by claiming that your preferences are more valid and "better" than those of others. Clearly, a lot of people on this board prefer shorter, more to-the-point fights, and that's their preference. If everyone here could just say, "Fine. I like what I like, and you like what you like. Neither one is 'better' than the other," then that would be great.

    As for my preferences: I like a good bit of action myself, and will seek out the appropriate material to find it in when I want it. I like lots of action, but like others on the board, I don't like it to be too drawn out. My ideal way to see lots of action would be best presented by the movie Shoot 'Em Up. This movie was made for one purpose and one purpose only - to have as many gunfights and action sequences as possible. Note the word "sequences," though. While the action made up about 90% of the movie, there were short, slower scenes in between the individual action sequences that let the audience catch their breath, making individual fights last about five minutes each, ten at the most. The breather scenes were not very good on their own (some were funny, though ^^), but at least they didn't last long. It was just long enough to let me come down from the previous action high for a bit and then get excited for the next one, which tended to come right when I was ready.

    The reason I don't tend to like shounen action series is that a lot of the "fights" either last too long without providing a breather (thus making me "mellow out", as One Sin said, and tune out the fight after a certain point), or spend far too much time on the breathers (i.e.: flashbacks, long pans across characters staring at one another, random standing there and taunting, pointless "ha ha, you are too weak! look at you down there!" dialogue while one character sits there breathing hard and bleeding, etc.) and not enough on the actual fighting. When I want action, I want it to pack a big punch for as long as possible without being spread thin (five straight minutes is my ideal max, maybe ten minutes if it's very clever and entertaining). If a show or movie can provide a lot of those sequences without putting them too too close together, I am a happy viewer. :)
    Post edited by Eryn on
  • I have just come to a realization that if you do not like the plot device in which you have to overcome a crazy "blah"and then at the last minute you take out an even crazier "blah"then you will not appreciate Doctor Who very much. And Doctor Who is awesome :P
  • Furthermore, the characters never really pull out a random ability from their ass, they are all abilities that they already knew from the start of the anime that the audience does not know about.
    If they know these "techniques" all along, why don't they just use their best move at the start, and never use any other move again? Why waste time with puny fireball when you can blow him away with MEGA CATACLYSMIC DEMON BREATH right from the start? Because it was made up on the spot, you see.
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