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GeekNights 080626 - The Darkness that Comes Before

edited June 2008 in GeekNights
Tonight on GeekNights the book club discusses The Darkness that Comes Before by R. Scott Bakker.

Our next selection is Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson.
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Comments

  • How far into the show can I listen before I hit spoiler territory?
  • Snow Crash, fuck yeah.
  • How far into the show can I listen before I hit spoiler territory?
    The episode is for people who have finished the first book. If you haven't read it, don't listen.
  • Oh. See, I should have actually thought about the title of the podcast. Anyway, I need to remember to come back to this when I finish The Darkness that Comes Before.
  • Snow Crash, fuck yeah.
    I can't say this enough.
  • Snow Crash, fuck yeah.
    I can't say this enough.
    Neither can we, hence...
  • Haven't read The Darkness That Comes Before yet, so my entrance into this thread will be brief and only consist of skimming when I enter it again...

    But, another thumbs up for choosing Snow Crash as I've heard good things and already have it checked out from the library. Hopefully I'll be able to start it soon.

    Question though: why not Neuromancer as the first foray into Cyberpunk for the book club? Not enough material to discuss or not enough interest? Pray tell, Scrym!
  • Just like to let fellow audio book listeners know that Snow Crash is available at Audible.
  • Dragonlance is the G Gundam of fantasy books, and I love G Gundam.
  • I read The Darkness That Comes Before in one sitting on a flight from Athens to Atlanta the other day. It was fantastic, and the first thing I did after returning to the States was pick up the next two books.
  • edited June 2008
    I'm going to sound like a total nitpicky bitch for this, but you guys said a few times that the books are written in first-person perspective. I know you probably didn't mean that in the absolute strictest sense of the term, but the English nerd in the back of my brain was still bothered anyway.

    First-person is strictly "I did this, I did that, I thought this, I, I, I, I, I..." all the time, making it feel as though you literally are the viewpoint character. What PoN has going is third-person limited omniscient perspective. The descriptions are all from an outside third-person perspective, but during any given section, the writing is still just as tied to the viewpoint character as it would be in first-person. I'd almost be tempted to just call the books third-person omniscient, given how often the viewpoint character changes. However, third-person omniscient tends to switch perspectives with far less demarcation and strictness than PoN, so I'd still say limited.

    So... yeah. I promise to contribute some actual meaningful content to this thread after I've listened to the whole episode. XD;;
    Post edited by Eryn on
  • edited June 2008
    Damnit! The one weekend we don't get down there and it's the round-table. Will we be doing the other two books?

    Fah. I had a better recommendation for the next book too. Snow Crash? Really? Come on guys, that book was awful. There are probably two well-written sequences in the entire thing and both do with the librarian.
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • Snow Crash? Really? Come on guys, that book was awful. There are probably two well-written sequences in the entire thing and both do with the librarian.
    Snow Crash is an extremely significant book. It is written that way deliberately. Stephenson's other books demonstrate his considerable writing chops. Snow Crash develops concepts that have been turned into reality. Stephenson is a geek prophet.
  • I got Snow Crash for Christmas last year, was really pumped when I started reading it, but never actually finished it (not a huge fan of the writing style).

    For the book club, though, I'll give it another shot.
  • Snow Crash is an extremely significant book. It is written that way deliberately. Stephenson's other books demonstrate his considerable writing chops. Snow Crash develops concepts that have been turned into reality. Stephenson is a geek prophet.
    Really? Hydrogen bombs in motorcycles are reality?
  • I have not read The Darkness that Comes Before, so what is the info on Snowcrash? I.e. at what point in the episode is the talk about TPoN over and you guys start talking about Snowcrash for next time?
  • I have not read The Darkness that Comes Before, so what is the info on Snowcrash? I.e. at what point in the episode is the talk about TPoN over and you guys start talking about Snowcrash for next time?
    We talk about Snow Crash a little bit at the end. I also read a famous excerpt from Snow Crash. I hope my reading convinces you to read this extremely important geek novel.
  • ......
    edited June 2008
    I have not read The Darkness that Comes Before, so what is the info on Snowcrash? I.e. at what point in the episode is the talk about TPoN over and you guys start talking about Snowcrash for next time?
    We talk about Snow Crash a little bit at the end. I also read a famous excerpt from Snow Crash. I hope my reading convinces you to read this extremely important geek novel.
    I have the e-book somewhere on my HD. Stored for I want to read it, however had not yet had time or motivation to read it over other e-books. Now there's a motivation, will backtrack in the episode for the talk, thanks.

    EDIT: 73 minutes in it starts?
    Post edited by ... on
  • Well, not all the concepts, Scott.
  • Yeah, that first person thing annoyed me a bit too. But I got what you meant. The very ending of the book really stood out for me in this regard. It was the first time (since the opening chapter) where we saw things in broader terms, and I thought that was a perfect way to close out the book without the reader being tainted by the close perspective of any single character.

    It was a fun episode. Your enthusiasm and hints at what comes in the later books make me want to read them sooner than I intended.

    One thing I'd prefer is a bit more structure to the episode, as you seemed to jump about all over the place. Maybe for the next book you could chat for a time under different loose sections like characters, writing style, themes, the world, story, etc. It would give you some more focus and will remind you of things you wanted to talk about when you get to them. Also, as you didn't do the round table thing, it would have been interesting to have the forum topic open to address more points brought up by others who have read it.

    Finally, 8 weeks is a loooong time. I finished TDTCB in under a week while reading another book at the same time. Why not have a 5th night of geekery... geek books?
  • edited June 2008
    Snow Crash? Really? Come on guys, that book was awful. There are probably two well-written sequences in the entire thing and both do with the librarian.
    Snow Crash is an extremely significant book. It is written that way deliberately. Stephenson's other books demonstrate his considerable writing chops. Snow Crash develops concepts that have been turned into reality. Stephenson is a geek prophet.
    So it was deliberately written poorly? Hey, if you want to call it significant, that's fine, but 'significant' and 'good' are very very different. I point to "Great Gatsby" as an example. Important? Possibly. Good? Sweet mother of literature, no! There were some amusing parts in SnowCrash, and I like the whole language thing (vagueness to prevent spoilers), but it really wasn't very good in my opinion.
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • Can we expect an episode about the rest of the series some day? I actually finished all three books and would like you hear an spoiler-ific episode about the other two books.

    For those of you who would rather listen to Snow Crash than read it, you can download a good version for free through Audible.com. You just have to sign up, get your free book, and then cancel your subscription.
  • For those of you who would rather listen to Snow Crash than read it, you can download a good version for free throughAudible.com. You just have to sign up, get your free book, and then cancel your subscription.
    You watched the movie instead of reading the book in literature class, didn't you? I guess we can't stop people from doing the audiobook thing. As more and more books are turned into audiobooks, it will make it very hard if we tried to only pick books in audio form. However, the point is to encourage reading. No matter how you slice it, listening to the audio book is not the same as reading. We strongly suggest you opt for the dead tree version, if possible.
  • For those of you who would rather listen to Snow Crash than read it, you can download a good version for free throughAudible.com. You just have to sign up, get your free book, and then cancel your subscription.
    You watched the movie instead of reading the book in literature class, didn't you? I guess we can't stop people from doing the audiobook thing. As more and more books are turned into audiobooks, it will make it very hard if we tried to only pick books in audio form. However, the point is to encourage reading. No matter how you slice it, listening to the audio book is not the same as reading. We strongly suggest you opt for the dead tree version, if possible.
    So long as it is an unabridged recording, the content is the same. Someday, information will be beamed directly into our heads at a rate of efficiency that far exceeds reading. Will you still be a book advocate then?
  • So long as it is an unabridged recording, the content is the same. Someday, information will be beamed directly into our heads at a rate of efficiency that far exceeds reading. Will you still be a book advocate then?
    Using your eyes instead of your ears means that you are using a different part of the brain to process the story. Your imagining of the story will not be the same, and the parts of your brain that you will exercise will not be the same.

    Not only that, but the experience of an audiobook vs. a paper or e-book is fundamentally different in terms of control of the pacing. WIth an audio book it is difficult to flip around to different parts, especially compared to the ease of flipping pages. If the book has a map, glossary, illustrations, etc. that is totally lost in an audiobook. Also, in some books, the physical arrangement of the words on the page can be significant.

    And audiobook is not inherently bad. They're not evil or anything, and they have their place. I'm just saying they are not perfect substitutes for actually reading the book.
  • edited June 2008
    For those of you who would rather listen to Snow Crash than read it, you can download a good version for free throughAudible.com. You just have to sign up, get your free book, and then cancel your subscription.
    You watched the movie instead of reading the book in literature class, didn't you? I guess we can't stop people from doing the audiobook thing. As more and more books are turned into audiobooks, it will make it very hard if we tried to only pick books in audio form. However, the point is to encourage reading. No matter how you slice it, listening to the audio book is not the same as reading. We strongly suggest you opt for the dead tree version, if possible.
    Indeed you are correct when you say the two are not the same.
    One obvious fact is that the voice of the speaker, i.e. not the words said but how they are said mean that the audio form contains a far greater amount of information.
    Additionally, there are some of the things you have mentioned.
    With an audio book it is difficult to flip around to different parts, especially compared to the ease of flipping pages. If the book has a map, glossary, illustrations, etc. that is totally lost in an audiobook.
    In future, better seek functions and the attachment of images will resolve these issues easily, I'm sure.

    Ultimately, however, the core issue is a question of exactly how the brain processes the two different signals. This is a very complicated issue, about which I think we know very little.
    Given that, what possible basis can you have to encourage one over the other?
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • edited June 2008
    Just to throw this out there:

    Over the weekend, I started rereading this book. Oh my No-God, parts of that first chapter take on additional significance after you've seen where the books are going.

    <spoiler>
    What I still feel is one of the most important unanswered questions in the series:

    Cnaiur: "They call themselves students of the Logos, the Shortest Way. But the shortest way to what?"

    Certain statements made by Kellhus in his introduction have only increased my desire to have that question answered. Who created the Dunyain, and why? Who moves their souls?

    I vote someone from the Mog-Pharau corner, but that might be a desire for maximum irony speaking.

    </spoiler>
    Post edited by Alex on
  • @Alex Spoilers

    I know that it is crazy to compare something so great to something so shitty, but I feel that Mog Pharau is plot-wise similar to Darth Maul. They are both totally bad-ass and awesome. They are both full of mystery that is never revealed. You feel somewhat unfulfilled because you did not learn enough about them, even after everything is over. Neither one gets enough "screen time". They are both quite like the guy in the white suit on The Simpson's front lawn. You know they are totally awesome, but you never get to see their awesome. It is eternally hidden from you. You want to see the awesome, but instead you see nothing.

    I guess in a way, it works. I'm desperate for any scrap that might relate to tornado sarcophagi in any shape or form.
  • Some thoughts on tDtCB:

    I don't care if they're whores or not, but there is a serious lack of independent female characters. Except maybe the empress dowager.

    The book really reminded me of Dune in some of the styleistic elements as well as some of the themes it brought up.

    If you're really interested I recently read the best discussion on the nature of free will and "coming before" I've yet seen here.
  • I listened this show and bought the 3 books (without thinking as Rym & Scott pointed out we should do :-). The books were GREAT! The English that is used in the books isn't the easiest one to read for a non-English person like me but still it was all worth it. Today I got a recommendation from Amazon about the 4th book, The Judging Eye, and I ordered it immediately. So now there's more greatness available from mr. Bakker!
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