Front Row Crew Forum

Rym said:

Conan-San said:

And yet it's worth bothering to block. In other words, leaving a sleeping dog to lie is more of a bother than twating it with a stick.

No, blocking protects the high-value affluent large market from competition from emerging markets, and it preserves the blocked markets (mostly) for future exploitation.

I'm not saying it's right or good. I'm saying that, from their perspective, it's smart.

Except now they've lost a sale of a console and sales of PAL Games that would come with it.
By twating the previously sleeping dog with a stick, they have been bitten.
And you're calling this "Smart"?

Joe boomer said:

Conan-San said:

Except now they've lost a sale of a console and sales of PAL Games that would come with it.
By twating the previously sleeping dog with a stick, they have been bitten.
And you're calling this "Smart"?

Rym said:

Future exploitation.

Read.

Read, ignored because that future exploitation never happens.

Joe boomer said:

Conan-San said:

Joe boomer said:

Conan-San said:

Except now they've lost a sale of a console and sales of PAL Games that would come with it.
By twating the previously sleeping dog with a stick, they have been bitten.
And you're calling this "Smart"?

Rym said:

Future exploitation.

Read.

Read, ignored because that future exploitation never happens.

The DS section of the stores I went to certainly weren't empty.

Oh, so Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey and Etrian Odyssey 3 got UK releases?

Rym said:

Conan-San said:

Except now they've lost a sale of a console and sales of PAL Games that would come with it.
By twating the previously sleeping dog with a stick, they have been bitten.

Even if you would have bought a few thousand dollars worth of games, it's so little money to them that they won't even bother.

It's kind of like how I don't bother to pick pennies up that are lying in the street. Sure, they're free money, but the bother to pick them up, carry them around, deposit them somewhere, or clean them if they're filthy is far more than the actual value.

So it's worth more to be a cunt, ok, back to the crossover talk, I'm done talking about how it's ok to be a total cunt.

Conan-San said:

So it's worth more to be a cunt, ok, back to the crossover talk, I'm done talking about the politics of assholism.

It's not politics. It's simple economics. Even when our E-Commerce comes online, I doubt we'll sell to anyone who doesn't have a credit card or Google Checkout account. Sure, there are likely people who want to use something else to buy from us, and sure, they might not buy if we don't support them, but it's far more effort to get those things working than any money we'd make.

There's no malice or stupidity here: that's my only point. It's simple economics.

Conan-San said:

Rym said:

Conan-San said:

So it's worth more to be a cunt, ok, back to the crossover talk, I'm done talking about the politics of assholism.

It's not politics. It's simple economics. Even when our E-Commerce comes online, I doubt we'll sell to anyone who doesn't have a credit card or Google Checkout account. Sure, there are likely people who want to use something else to buy from us, and sure, they might not buy if we don't support them, but it's far more effort to get those things working than any money we'd make.

There's no malice or stupidity here: that's my only point. It's simple economics.

Apples and Oranges, I'd buy stuff from your store (and deal with any extra levy Postage and Packages would entail) and use my Google account to pay for it. You're not denying the use of your product because of some misguided idea that someone else will pick up your slack and sell it over here when I can get it straight from you.

For the last god damn time, you are not a representative of an entire demographic.

Conan-San said:

Joe boomer said:

For the last god damn time, you are not a representative of an entire demographic.

So the Demographic of 20-something DS owner who owns a selection of games from all three major regions doesn't count for anything. OK thanks for clearing that up, I think I'll just steal all the games I want from now on.

I'm talking about the fact that you somehow believe that your actions show what everyone would do, as if the demographic are just clones of you.

Conan-San said:

So the Demographic of 20-something DS owner who owns a selection of games from all three major regions doesn't count for anything.

Not unless you're in 'merica ;)

WindUpBird said:

Don't flash cards strip region lock?

If the DS is region locked (don't think it is) then they do. Used to play Japanese and Euro games (in German while I was studying).

lackofcheese said:

Nonetheless, some people can choose to import the 3DS itself from another region (which I might do). After all, if these people would otherwise import games, why wouldn't they import the console itself?

Because that doesn't magicly remove the block on their own region.

Any lock is unacceptable.

And as if to prove a point, Kirby's Epic Yarn's been knocked back to who knows when 2011. The game is right there, in (the poor excuse for English Americans call) English and we can't play it because region blocks.

Maybe some numbers will let you see the problem.

# of people in country X who will buy game Y: hundreds.
Price of game y: $30.
Revenue, a few thousands for retailers, much less for developer/publisher.

Cost to print copies of game for country y: many thousands.
Cost to market game in country y: many thousands.
Cost to translate game for country y: many thousands.
Cost to distribute game in country y: many more thousands.

Profits on selling game in country y: negative. Will lose money because country is too small.
Profits of selling game in big country like the USA: millions.

It's not even worth their time to pay attention to you because you are so small. If all of Europe became one country with the same laws and everyone spoke the same language, then you might get something. Until then, stick with the PC.

lackofcheese said:

Scott, that argument justifies not bothering to sell a game outside the U.S. and Japan, but it doesn't justify region locking, which is what the argument is about.

The region locking has already been discussed. It's mostly to block against re-importation. If they sell a game in the US for less money than they sell it for in Australia, they don't want Australians just ordering from the US. If they have the rights to release a movie on DVD in the US, but someone else has those rights in Europe, then the person with the rights in Europe definitely wants a region lock on that shit so the Europeans buy from them. It's a technological mechanism to preserve an obsolete business model.

If you don't live in a place where console gaming is rocking, then just pirate everything. You are fully justified in doing so. It's the same as when we fansubbed everything before the anime boom.

I live in New Zealand and am 99% sure I will buy a US 3DS (assuming they are region locked).

Pros: Way cheaper games, able to order games and get them shipped over very close to actual release date, more game selection overall.

Cons: The initial 3DS purchase could be a risk - what if its faulty? Need to buy from somewhere that supports international customers.

The poster above had it right - the ONE freaken game I wanted to play ASAP was Kirby on the Wii and we currently have 2011 as our release date. Its an ENGLISH game! WTF.

I'm joining you guys. What am I missing? Why not?

Apreche said:

It's not even worth their time to pay attention to you because you are so small. If all of Europe became one country with the same laws and everyone spoke the same language, then you might get something. Until then, stick with the PC.

All I see is someone making trouble where there was no trouble previously. No money was lost when I could go down to the store and buy Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey and Dragon Quest IX in the one go and still play them on my DS (SMT: SJ being US only and DQ IX getting a rather big release campaign here).

If I couldn't buy Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey because of a region lock, I would have just bought DQ IX, that's a sale lost to the stockiest which in turn limits the stock that they can buy which then goes in a chain up to Atlus.
Or, hell, I would have just pirated the translated PS2 Dragon Quest V and left it at that, leaving the whole endeavour nuked from space.

Because Nintendo are, just now, deciding to add a draconian measure to their handheld for the fist time in the 20 years of the Gameboy/DS range for reasons that are utterly beyond me. Are Nintendo that adamant from stopping people picking up (of all games) japanese language Pokemon B/W and RPG Maker DS?
Does it bankrupt them to stop people from playing these games that they purchased? It certainly didn't when I bought Golden Sun six months ahead of it's UK release.

But yeah, we've established it's worth more to be an utter cunt than to leave shit well alone.

Conan-San said:

Because Nintendo are, just now, deciding to add a draconian measure to their handheld for the fist time in the 20 years of the Gameboy/DS range for reasons that are utterly beyond me.

It means they're likely going to start exploiting disparate markets more aggressively. It's in their best interest to have a segmented market where different regions have different price points, and it costs them almost nothing to implement this in their new hardware. I don't agree that they should, but it's a smart move.

Conan-San said:

It certainly didn't when I bought Golden Sun six months ahead of it's UK release.

So you bought it early from another market. That meant one fewer sale in the local market, decreasing the value of the local market to the seller. They'd rather you buy it in the local market at the local market price than on the global market. Or, they would only cater to the global market and ignore regionalization beyond the big two (English and Japanese).

Conan-San said:

But yeah, we've established it's worth more to be an utter cunt than to leave shit well alone.

In business? Most definitely.

Conan-San said:

And that's why we're in a recession. The economy can't move when money doesn't exchange hands and exchanges can only happen on mutual agreement.

Segmented media markets are so far removed from the root causes of the economic downturn as to be completely unrelated. The amounts of money "not exchanging hands" due to region locking effectively rounds down to zero compared to the amounts of money involved in the rest of the economy.

I wouldn't have thought that imports were significant enough to justify region locking in the first place, but I guess they are, or at least region locking is simply so trivial that it takes very little justification.

In any case, in the face of a region lock, your options are fairly simple:
1) Buy local hardware, and continue to complain ineffectually about how shafted your region gets
2) Import everything, including the hardware itself
3) Pirate

If they might shaft you for having imported hardware (e.g. screwing you in online features), then just go for number 3) and you're set.

Conan-San said:

Region Locking is a massive billboard marked "pirate this product". Hell, it's been all but advocated here and whilst it's not as bad as "One instance of Pirating this product is a lost sale" as many companies bemoan, it's still a sizable impact on the product.

It's a massive billboard, but it's hidden in a corner where comparatively few people actually see it. Quite simply, not enough people currently know or care how much they're getting shafted, and many who do aren't able or willing to take action (2) or 3) above).

Why is it region-locked. Why?! I buy so many Japanese games at Bookoff!

I was actually wondering that myself. We've had this 3-page debate but I don't ever remember anything definitively stating it would be region locked. With Nintendo not having region-locked their handhelds in a while, I feel like they probably won't with this next one.

Nope, just arguing for the sake of arguing : )

Ro said:

gundabad said:

Nope, just arguing for the sake of arguing : )

There's been more than enough of that in this thread.

No there hasn't! :-p

The short answer: the hackers will always be one step ahead, aside from some very brief moments where a platform is brand new.

I doubt that statement, considering where it's coming from. The number of people with an investment in having the 3DS cracked will make it pretty certain to be cracked ASAP. I'd expect something within the first two or three months at best and that's if Nintendo is lucky.

Also, saying this again, Nintendo is very late to the anti-piracy party.

The current anti-piracy party. Or at least they are a long way behind.

Wat. Try that again.