This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.

GeekNights 20111018 - Video Game Reviews

edited October 2011 in GeekNights

Tonight on GeekNights, we discuss videogame reviews like this Super Mario Brothers 3 review. In the news, Chromium issue #44106 and the recent broken CounterStrike update have a lot in common, and Notch gets deserved justice.

Download MP3

Comments

  • So much to say on this one. I wonder if I can even spit it all out without forgetting half, or putting you all to sleep.

    I stopped reading reviews a long time ago when two things happened:
    - the barrier of entry to creating media has fallen so much that there is an avalanche of great stuff to consume
    - my free time to consume such media has dropped off precipitously
    Therefore, I could just randomly choose from games/books/movies that have been recommended to me in passing by trusted sources, and I'd still have a giant fucking shit stack of great media to consume. So why do I need a review?

    I can speak firsthand to the strange nature of game "journalism" in the sense that most people on the internet writing in this field have no idea what journalism is, and the field is in a lot of trouble. It takes a lot of skill and hard work to develop an engaging writing style, but who is going to pay for a 4-year degree when your employer may just turn around and hire some untrained guy willing to do the same work for peanuts (or even unpaid as a hobby!). I just sort of fell into side jobs as a blogger. I'm an engineer, I don't know shit about writing, but the fact that I can string coherent sentences together means people will pay me money and provide me with tons of free product to pump out blog posts. I'm a part of the problem, but how could I say no?

    The hardest part is that there are so few resources out there for somebody to learn journalism on their own. When I want to learn a technical skill, I know exactly what training materials I need to teach myself. Not so easy with writing, which falls more into the artsy realm while my mind is wired for science. The only way I've found is through a combination of reading great writers to expose myself to their methods/techniques, and to then go back and take a serious critical eye to my own writing. I find it hard to believe that there is not some middle-road option, some crucial texts that anyone who wants to learn the basics of journalism should study without having to get a 4-year degree, but I just don't know what those are. Anyone got an idea? Perhaps someone who actually got a four year degree in this field?

    I've only been given a small handful of free video games to review (Rock Band 3, Portal 2, Borderlands DLC) but the majority of my experience is with board games, and the "not paying for it" problem is 10x bigger here because the prices vary so wildly. If you are not paying attention, it can be very easy to forget how much a board game would have cost, so I always put the price right up front to put the post in context. There was a discussion on this topic in a recent Dice Tower podcast episode where they reviewed My Precious Presents (which was shit), a very light family card game with some shiny components. The game cost $50 and the guy had to come back on next episode and re-do his bit to put it in perspective. Or think about the D&D Adventure series of dungeon-crawling board games. That style of games has its detractors but I think they are fun. However, WotC has put out three of them now and they are all just small incremental improvements on the previous title. I think the latest one is awesome and that they've finally perfected their formula, but only a company like WotC could get away with charging $65 for beta test 1, $65 for beta test 2, and then another $65 for the finished product. A lot of reviewers are going to forget that. Yes, game 3 is awesome, but can you really recommend it to someone who is already out $130?

    I stopped giving numerical scores a long time ago. The best way to judge a product is 50% on what it strives to achieve. Do the choices of theme, mechanics, and artistic style all make sense together? Do they combine to form a hypothetical product aimed at a target audience who would really enjoy such a thing? Not every product has to be earth-shattering and novel, but does it at least form an interesting combination of existing stuff, or take things in new and interesting directions? The second 50% is how well a product executed on those goals, and god help you if you make unqualified statements. I'm sure I've made a mistake here or there if I read through all of my posts, but as a general rule, you should NEVER say use an adjective to describe something if you can't come up with two sentence to describe in detail what design choices cause that adjective to fit. If you can't, you are talking out of your ass. Also, a big part of this objectives/execution analysis should be the target audience. Yeah, it can sound elitist, but some games really are just not for you. Say you want to review Fluxx. You could say "Fluxx games are poop, play X instead" but in my eyes that is a separate post (and one worth writing). Instead, you should say "X type of people like Fluxx. This version is better/worse than the previous editions and for such and such reason. If you've never played Fluxx before but this sounds like your thing, start with Y version."

    BTW, the movie critic for the local paper probably paid for a ticket. National and major market critics will have free screenings in their local areas.
  • Need some content for the few weeks when Rym is away? I remember a Tuesday episode I recorded back in 2008 that fits the bill. It's probably still relevant.
  • Need some content for the few weeks when Rym is away? I remember a Tuesday episode I recorded back in 2008 that fits the bill. It's probably still relevant.
    I also brought this up recently.
  • Need some content for the few weeks when Rym is away? I remember a Tuesday episode I recorded back in 2008 that fits the bill. It's probably still relevant.
    We're going to put that up soon. I've put up a couple hours of the recording we did together in New York before, and I have about another episode or two's worth of material (that needs more editing than the first bits, as we were getting way off topic by the end). ;^)

    It could be a week of Luke while I'm gone!

    Also a book club episode. Ear Eye Arm is recorded and done, and will go up while I'm gone.

    I won't make Scott learn to use the studio proper while I'm gone, or I'd have him replace me for an episode or two. Emily could help him with that, but as she'll be with me... ;^)
  • I'd forgotten about that juggling-related content. I thought you'd put it up already. If you want help with the edit, I could do it easily.

    I brought up the Ricochet Robots and Set episode again because I bought a Set set on Sunday. I've played a few games with my girlfriend, and because she is A. German and B. female, she already shows signs that she'll kick my ass at this game in the long run.
  • edited October 2011
    On review agitators, I think Rotten Tomatoes has it right; either the review is positive or negative and it tells you what percentage thought it was good. I think this makes for the best consumer purchase advice.

    Game criticism needs to be in the voice of the reviewer. I want it to be unfair because I'll find a reviewer that has similar tastes to me and listen to them.

    I actually find that the "Lets Play" or the Giant Bomb style "Quick Look" to be FAR more useful as a way of telling if I want to play a game (as I trust by ability to vicariously experience a game that I am watching someone else play).

    On the topic of wanting to play a "fuck you hard" game from Retro Game Master, Bonanza Brothers is on Steam.
    Post edited by DevilUknow on
  • Bonanza Brothers is on Steam.
    I probably have that, then. I bought that giant Sega megapack when it was on sale a few months ago.
  • Need some content for the few weeks when Rym is away? I remember a Tuesday episode I recorded back in 2008 that fits the bill. It's probably still relevant.
    I also brought this up recently.
    Also, please reload the HTPC episode so it's not three seconds long.
  • Double Levitation! (@3:31)
  • I won't make Scott learn to use the studio proper while I'm gone, or I'd have him replace me for an episode or two.
    In the radio days, I was always a fan of the "Only touch this to do this, that to do that, and if you touch anything else I will break you in goddamn half" method.
  • In general, if I want to make sure I'm not missing anything I find that Metacritic is a decent extremely rough initial screen. I've never found a game or movie that got worse than a 60 or so aggregate score that I've really enjoyed relative to other things I could be playing or watching, and conversely the odds are really high that I'll enjoy anything over 90 unless I hate the genre. And yes, it's silly that 60 = pretty terrible at most review sites.

    After that, I always just wind up browsing a few pages of a post-release thread on a reasonably good forum a week or two after the game releases, because it's the equivalent of getting compact reviews from several dozen people who are more or less each as knowledgeable as the professional reviewers.
  • Before listening to the episode I read through the SMB3 review as linked in the original post. I thought it was a pretty good review, and a good overview for new gamers who'd not played it before. As it happens, I simply skipped over the rating at the bottom, as I don't need anyone to tell me, one a scale of 5 to 10, how good or bad a game is, certainly not one that I've played to completion a number of times. I was amused that in the podcast itself it wasn't the review that you wanted to bitch about, but the rating. I agree entirely!

    That said, I do rate books on my own podcast. There is one criterion: How much did Luke enjoy this book? Nothing else matters, and I make it clear every time that the rating is utterly subjective. Many listeners know that if I give a book 5 stars they might not like it, as the preceding 30-40 minutes of discussion of the book itself will make it clear if they'll read it or not.
  • What's going on in Japan?
  • What's going on in Japan?
    image
  • I love this picture

    image
  • That said, I do rate books on my own podcast. There is one criterion: How much did Luke enjoy this book? Nothing else matters, and I make it clear every time that the rating is utterly subjective. Many listeners know that if I give a book 5 stars they might not like it, as the preceding 30-40 minutes of discussion of the book itself will make it clear if they'll read it or not.
    Why do you bother giving a star rating if you don't have the reviews in text or grouped by rating (unless you do and I'm thick and missed it)? They seem superfluous in a medium where you can hear / see the person speaking since you can very easily tell how they feel about the media they're talking about.
  • Why do you bother giving a star rating if you don't have the reviews in text or grouped by rating (unless you do and I'm thick and missed it)? They seem superfluous in a medium where you can hear / see the person speaking since you can very easily tell how they feel about the media they're talking about.
    If my venture a guess, it's because you need 30 minutes to listen to a podcast episode, but 30 seconds to look up a star rating... if you trust Luke to have good taste (I find that my liking of a book does not match his ratings, but I like the podcasts).
  • Were you guys being serious? You don't know that film reviewers go to free screenings?

    I disagree that reviewers should not get comp material for review, because even without the comp game, they are still not on an equal level to you. They still get paid to review games for a living and we got to these strangers for their opinions.

    I also disagree that you need the person who's an "expert" in a certain genre of game to review it. Usually someone who likes the fighting genre, for instance, will review that game, but at times I want to see how a fish out of water perceives a game.

    here is your homework, Rym and Scott: listen to an episode of the Giant Bombcast. i could give you many podcasts to listen to, but let's go with that.
  • I also disagree that you need the person who's an "expert" in a certain genre of game to review it. Usually someone who likes the fighting genre, for instance, will review that game, but at times I want to see how a fish out of water perceives a game.

    here is your homework, Rym and Scott: listen to an episode of the Giant Bombcast. i could give you many podcasts to listen to, but let's go with that.
    Why would I want to know the opinion of someone who thinks nothing like me and does not share my tastes? I want to hear what experts think.

    I would like to know what other podcasts you recommend. I realized a few weeks back that I have been severely lacking on video game podcast listening ever since I dove so deep into board games. I view guys like Chris Kohler and Jeremy Parish as game experts so I went and subscribed to whatever they are on now, but also hit up Giant Bombcast as well. Not impressed so far. Give me more!
  • I would like to know what other podcasts you recommend. I realized a few weeks back that I have been severely lacking on video game podcast listening ever since I dove so deep into board games. I view guys like Chris Kohler and Jeremy Parish as game experts so I went and subscribed to whatever they are on now, but also hit up Giant Bombcast as well. Not impressed so far. Give me more!
    While it's not all the time, Ash and Anthony Birch from HAWP have a podcast where they often discuss video games in somewhat the manner you may be looking for. I mean, it's a random discussion podcast, but it tends to involve video games in depth more often than not.
  • Honestly reviews are more about the system and the person rather than the actual review. It is one of those things that if you and someone else agree on 3 things then you will take their word in the future. Two good examples of a system and a person.
  • Adam Sessler is one of the few video game "journalists" whose opinion I respect. Although, I mostly listen to him on his Feedback podcast rather than follow any of his specific game reviews on X-Play.
  • Adam Sessler is one of the few video game "journalists" whose opinion I respect. Although, I mostly listen to him on his Feedback podcast rather than follow any of his specific game reviews on X-Play.
    Likewise, I basically listen to Feedback and watch Sessler's Soapbox.
  • edited October 2011
    I just found this, which is basically summing up Sessler's opinion, except much less filtered. It's a collection of people going insane over Eurogamer giving Uncharted 3 an 8/10... and not a single one of them has played it yet (as this was before release). This is why we can't have nice things.
    Post edited by Tesla on
Sign In or Register to comment.