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Mac OS X "Mountain Lion" and "Gatekeeper"

edited February 2012 in Technology
So the next version of OS X, "Mountain Lion," due out this summer introduces a new feature, Gatekeeper, which limits what apps you're allowed to install on your machine. By default, it only allows you to install apps acquired from the Mac App Store and apps that have been digitally signed, though you can disable it and allow it to install anything you want. Of course, this is almost certainly a transition strategy to a future where the only apps purchased from the App Store are allowed.

Shame really... I loved the Macs I've owned for the past 10 years or so because they had the best balance of Unix underneath with big time (relatively) commercial support on top and a really nice GUI to boot (at least compared to what was available at the time I got my first Mac). Now it's pretty much certain that my next main computer will not be a Mac and while I'll have the most basic MacBook Pro for iOS development purposes (I plan to write iOS apps to make a few bucks on the side), one of the first things I'm going to do is set it up to dual boot Windows.
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Comments

  • Told you this was coming a long time ago. I still do not understand you OSX lovers.

    I find it funny that they are going to make OSX be app store only by default, but let advanced users turn on the ability to install whatever else. That's exactly what I've been asking for on iOS for all this time! If they left it this way and had iOS and OSX meet in the middle, everything would be great.
  • It makes sense given the security/software quality issues that have plagued Windows since internet based software distribution. The spyware/virus stuff has been prettty much absent on Macs cause of basically how unpopular they were, but sales have been growing so much and viruses and shit are actually starting to spring up. I mean hell, one big reaosn people move on to Macs in the first place is cause they had a bad experience with spyware or other super bad software just generally messing their shit up. This doesn't hurt nerds at all considering it will be super easy to disable and only helps the vast majority of customers who dont want to actually spend their time caring about security and performance issues.
  • edited February 2012
    Until Apple has enough support from vendors that they can eliminate the advanced user option. Which could happen.
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • It makes sense given the security/software quality issues that have plagued Windows since internet based software distribution. The spyware/virus stuff has been prettty much absent on Macs cause of basically how unpopular they were, but sales have been growing so much and viruses and shit are actually starting to spring up. I mean hell, one big reaosn people move on to Macs in the first place is cause they had a bad experience with spyware or other super bad software just generally messing their shit up. This doesn't hurt nerds at all considering it will be super easy to disable and only helps the vast majority of customers who dont want to actually spend their time caring about security and performance issues.
    It hurts nerds tremendously.

    Let's say you currently make some OSX software that is not approved in the Apple store. Oh, now normal users have to do tricky stuff to be able to install your app. You're out of business.

    Nerds as users are still ok, for now. They will know how to turn it off and install their open source goodies. That is until OSX 11 where iOS and OSX are the same thing, and it's App store only. Then I will lol at all the developers who stupidly kept buying Macs despite years of warning.
  • Hopefully by the time it becomes impossible to run non-app store applications Windows will be just as pretty and usable, or a flavor of Linux is suitable for my needs. Meanwhile I'll stick with my dual booting MacBook Pro.
  • edited February 2012
    Are there any examples of solidly designed, useful, and non copyright infringing software that has been blocked from the app store? I know emulators and torrent/nzb stuff gets blocked cause of legal issues, and free tethering stuff is blocked because of carrier restrictions, but I'm curious what it prevents other than really bad or quasi-illegal software.
    Post edited by johndis on
  • edited February 2012
    Oh they block porn too actually lol. SHIT
    Post edited by johndis on
  • Are there any examples of solidly designed, useful, and non copyright infringing software that has been blocked from the app store? I know emulators and torrent/nzb stuff gets blocked cause of legal issues, and free tethering stuff is blocked because of carrier restrictions, but I'm curious what it prevents other than really bad or quasi-illegal software.
    Just one example.
    http://boingboing.net/2010/04/15/apple-blocks-pulitze.html

    Also, VLC. Also, emulators are not illegal in any way, only the ROMs of games and BIOSes are copyrighted. An NES emulator is perfectly legal. A bittorrent client is also perfectly legal, but some of the files you download with it might not be. Also every piece of software that is licensed under the GPL will not be allowed.
  • So this would be bad for the open source community, you think?
  • So this would be bad for the open source community, you think?
    For right now it just means every tech person who keep using OSX will have to check a box in a setting panel before they can use their computer like normal and install whatever they want.

    In the future if that checkbox disappears, you will not be able to use Apple computers to do real work unless you are using Apple tools to make Apple things, like using XCode to make an iPhone app. Every actual developer will have to use Windows/Linux/BSD.

    Hopefully that will lead to enough people moving to Linux to fix the currently dire Linux desktop situation.

  • edited February 2012
    On OSX, if they moved to an all app store model, it would literally eliminate it. Well, unless developers felt like being charitable. To get your app signed by Apple, you need to be a registered developer, which is at least $100 a year. Not a terrible amount, but it certainly de-incentivizes releasing anything for free instead of like $.99 or whatever. I'm personally ok with that, tho, cause I'd say market demands and profit potential are much better at driving quality development than pure hobby-ism.

    Also yeah that's a pretty fucked up policy to have (no ridiculing public figures), but bt clients and emus are grey areas pretty much every company tries to distance themselves from. IIRC Google removed emus and bt clients from their official app store (of course they can still be installed from apks). I definitely see how allowing one company to control development guidelines can lead to big limitations in what your computer is basically "allowed" to do, but once again at the same time I'd argue it's the path to quality and usability among the rapidly broadening and diversifying computer using market.
    Post edited by johndis on
  • Told you this was coming a long time ago. I still do not understand you OSX lovers.
    For what it's worth, I've been using OS X since 2001, long before iOS and this whole locked down crap was probably even a glint in Job's eye. In fact, back then they were making a big deal about how OS X had an open source core with a lot of Apple's polish on top. However, once the Mac App Store came out, I started sensing something was up and was already starting to consider alternatives (AKA, use cross-platform software whenever possible and start perusing NewEgg to see how much building a new desktop would cost me when the time came to jump ship back to Windows).
    I find it funny that they are going to make OSX be app store only by default, but let advanced users turn on the ability to install whatever else. That's exactly what I've been asking for on iOS for all this time! If they left it this way and had iOS and OSX meet in the middle, everything would be great.
    That would've been nice for iOS, true, depending on how hard it is to get a proper signature. For example, I can run all the iOS stuff I want on a simulator for no charge, but if I want to be able to test on real hardware I own, I need to fork over $99/year. Not worth it unless I plan to actually sell stuff on the app store -- certainly not worth it if I just wanna write some quick and dirty software that's only of use to me (such as some of the stuff I wrote to manage Anime Boston panels).

    My future plan would probably be to replace my iMac with a Windows/Linux desktop and my Windows laptop with a MacBook Pro (the cheapest model) set to multiboot Windows/Linux and OS X. That way I still will have a decent Mac around to develop iOS stuff, but also have an OS on it that I can install whatever the hell I want on it without hoop jumping.
  • Note that Windows 7 64 requires signed low level drivers by default and turning it off is a pain. Which is sad as it means no decent DualShock 3 drivers unless the developer wants to fork over a few hundred a year.
  • Let's use the good old car analogy!

    Mountain Lion is a car that is so incredibly safe. The chances of this car getting in an accident are almost 0. If it does get in an accident, the chances of anyone being hurt are almost zero. Of course, it refuses to start if you don't have your seatbelts on. Also, you can still drive it to a bad place and get killed, but you won't be killed because of driving.

    But the same car will refuse to do certain things. It won't go offroad. It won't go on a race track. You can't tow anything with it. You can only take it to the dealer mechanic, and not your own. You can't make third party mods or change the rims.

    That's ok, because there is a special switch. If you hit the special hidden switch, the car will now go offroad or on the race track. It will start without your seatbelts on. It will let you replace the alternator with one you bought at AutoZone. But next model year, they remove the special switch.

    Imagine a special mountain climbing rope. No matter how much you suck, this rope will guarantee that you will get 100' up the mountain with complete safety. That's amazing. All the people who can't climb at all will love this rope and it is the best ever. But this rope also guarantees that no matter what you can not climb higher than 200' up the mountain. That gives people some room to grow, but it also makes this rope completely useless for anyone who is actually serious about mountain climbing. At Mt. Everest that rope would be toilet paper.

    Once OSX removes that switch, and I can practically guarantee they will within a few years, Macs will be as useful as toilet paper to anyone who wants to use a computer for serious work. They will be media consumption devices that are good for people who have no clue what they are doing, but simultaneously prevent those people from growing.

    Like TF2. Low skill cap.
  • The endgame is frightening.

    Look at services like Hulu and products like Boxee. Hulu lets you watch certain content on phones or "media devices", but restricts other content only to "PCs." Now, as I have a real computer plugged into my TV, this restriction means nothing and is little more than an archaic business model that preys on the technical inabilities of its customers.

    Boxee has an "app" that lets me watch College Humor videos and youtube videos. The former does not let me watch anything but CH Originals, and the latter has different content from what I see with the same search on a PC and doesn't let me close the overlay ads easily. It also has no ability for me to download a video locally. The Xbox 360 Youtube "app" has an even more limited selection of what can actually be watched.

    So already, there are two worlds. An open one, where if I just use a regular PC with a web browser, plugged into a TV, I can see any content I want, legal or otherwise, that's out there, and a closed one, where "illegal" content isn't available, functionality is limited, and even otherwise legally available content is hidden.

    The media industry really, really, REALLY wants a world where the only way to consume their content is through "apps" they control. They would give anything to take away the normal web browser I'm currently using.

    Nerds will always find a way. But the "blessed apps only" walled garden is a direct road to a great reduction in the functionality endusers will have access to. You can see exactly what that future will look like by putting a Boxee device next to a regular PC and seeing what you can and can't see and do.
  • It's as if we built a great library, of Alexandria, and then the gatekeepers locked all the doors. If you wanted a book, you had to ask for it, and they may or may not give it to you at their whim. Only the ninjas could sneak in and out and read what they pleased as they please.

    Keep the doors open so all may enter. Also, it saves us ninjas the work of having to be sneaky all the time.
  • What's "serious work" anyway?
  • I wonder if/how Apple's draconian subscription model plays into all of this. If you release an F2P game on OSX, and you use the App Store to distribute the app, does that mean Apple is going to try nabbing 30% on any in-game purchases? Is Steam on Mac going to have to consider the Apple Tax?

    If Gatekeeper doesn't get changed (Apple may make adjustments if there is too much backlash), I have a feeling we'll see an even bigger migration to web applications, which is increasingly becoming a thorn in Apple's side.
  • What's "serious work" anyway?
    Making any software that is not software for Apple's platforms.

    Even if you do want to make software for Apple platforms you have to pay $100 a year, minimum.
  • I think you guys are making a serious leap in logic assuming that they're gonna take away the ability to install things from not-the-apple-store. It's a slippery slope argument. It's not a valid position in the gay marriage debate and it's not valid here.
  • I think you guys are being alarmist, and I think the option to disable Gatekeeper isn't going away anytime soon. I think this is a feature introduced for the lowest common denominator. The same people who need those warnings on Windows every time a program tries to access the internet. Maybe I'm an optimist. On the other hand, maybe you guys are crazy conspiracy theorists.
  • edited February 2012
    I think you guys are making a serious leap in logic assuming that they're gonna take away the ability to install things from not-the-apple-store. It's a slippery slope argument. It's not a valid position in the gay marriage debate and it's not valid here.
    Yeah, slippery slope is generally just super silly.


    Also, I'm willing to bet Apple's app store has put more money into the hands of small companies and independent developers in the past few years than the entire history of Windows computing. In the future, developing for Apple products will be the only serious work there is.
    Post edited by johndis on
  • I think you guys are making a serious leap in logic assuming that they're gonna take away the ability to install things from not-the-apple-store. It's a slippery slope argument. It's not a valid position in the gay marriage debate and it's not valid here.
    Dammit George!

  • I will bet money. Within three years you won't be able to install non-app store software on Apple computers.
  • I will bet money. Within three years you won't be able to install non-app store software on Apple computers.
    I'll put $20 on they won't do that. You in or out?
    I think you guys are making a serious leap in logic assuming that they're gonna take away the ability to install things from not-the-apple-store. It's a slippery slope argument. It's not a valid position in the gay marriage debate and it's not valid here.
    Dammit George!
    :P

  • I'm in. Someone find a site that will escrow and such.
  • I don't think that's necessary, we have witnesses. The forum will remember. Valentines day 2015, remember people!
  • edited February 2012
    Valentines 2015, if neither George or Scott is married, they tie the knot. Got it.
    Post edited by johndis on
  • I will bet money. Within three years you won't be able to install non-app store software on Apple computers.
    I'll bet $100 that Scott is right, with the qualifier that if Apple actually removes it, but some hacker finds a non-supported way around it, I still win.

    Remember: the media companies have been pushing for something like this since the 90s. CBDTPA anyone? Even if Apple has no intention to ever do it, there are some reasons why the "slippery slope," while not an argument in total, is one piece of a larger argument.

    1. Apple has precedent with the iPhone and iPad for this level of lockdown.
    2. Apple has a direct business in brokering the sale of "Apps."
    3. Apple has a direct interest in keeping media/content producers happy in order to maintain iTunes in the face of increasing competition (Amazon, Spotify, etc...).
    4. Media/content producers have a direct and vocal desire for this level of lockdown, and have taken full advantage of every implementation hitherto.

    I honestly think it will happen.
  • I'll go further than Rym.

    Not only will Apple remove it but hackers will absolutely find a way around it. I guarantee both the lockdown and the jailbreak.
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