Hey just curious when did the staff schedules get released for Otakon last year?
I have absolutely no clue. At no point did we ever receive any instructions as to what our duties would be pre, during, or post-con. We did ask multiple times.
By all appearances, they wanted us to show up and work most of the con manning panel rooms, something we'd not been planning on doing
I'm pretty sure that when you sign up to be a staffer, you do what they tell you to do. If you're a panelist, you plan on doing panels.
Not how it works. When they make you an offer of being on staff, and you say "okay but only if I don't have to work panel rooms," then there is an understanding that if they accept you as staff they have accepted your condition.
I'm just willing to give anyone as many chances as they need to straighten up their act.
I'm not. You get 3 chances to show me that you are willing to make an effort. After that, fuck you.
Imagine if you accept a job doing some lab work, you show up and someone tells you that your job is going to be driving a bulldozer.
That's a poor analogy. You two have basically run cons, so you have experience with all the types of work you might need to do.
The more appropriate analogy is something like, "Imagine you show up to work thinking you have X to do, but then you wind up with X, Y, and Z to do." The thing is, X, Y, and Z, are all in the job description. That is literally how my current job works. I show up with some things to do, and shit changes during the course of the day. My job is to stay on top of and managed constantly evolving situations.
Really, that's a lot of what running any organization involves. You have to be flexible, because who knows what could happen when you cram 25,000 nerds into one place.
then there is an understanding that if they accept you as staff they have accepted your condition.
I wouldn't assume that they just accepted your terms unless they explicitly stated so.
When you accept a job, there is a job description. We signed up to be panels staff at Otakon and had expectations about what the job entailed. We made every effort to assist the panels department. At no point were we ever given any duties, despite the fact that the panels department desperately needed any help it could get. Rym even went to the staff convention.
What happened was that someone was in charge of panels. They worked with us to arrange our duties at con. They were then removed as head of panels (no notification to us), and a new person took over. At no point did anyone respond to our questions. The new person didn't even want us to run ANY panels at first, and wasn't willing to look at what the previous person had arranged. We were 100% ignored until we said effectively "if no one responds, we won't be able to commit to coming to Otakon this year." Only then did anyone correspond with us.
There was other drama, but it was mostly silly, much of it from the staff forum and the staff convention I attended. I omit it from public discussion only to prevent further drama. But good god, was there a lot of it.
You two have basically run cons, so you have experience with all the types of work you might need to do.
Work we'd originally agreed NOT to have to do, you realize. The gameplan changed out from under us months after it had been arranged with no communication or responses to our repeated questions.
And what if they had straight up told you they needed you to man panel rooms?
From the start? We probably would have declined the invitation to join the staff and continued on as panelists only (like before).
So late in the game and against our original agreement? We would have offered to just run our panels instead. We'd already declined ALL of the perks of being staff (hotel, food, everything).
I have absolutely no clue. At no point did we ever receive any instructions as to what our duties would be pre, during, or post-con.
I only ask because it's really common to not get your staff schedule until less then a week before the con. For example PAX east didn't make the staff schedule until the Friday (March 4th) before the con (most of which were coming on Thursday) So not only did you not know what department you were in you also didn't know which shift until less then a week before. Zenkaikon, I would have had my staff's schedule out two weeks before (beating PAX) BUT the con chair fucked up and said she was sending them out only to not do it (so it went out a week before).
I have absolutely no clue. At no point did we ever receive any instructions as to what our duties would be pre, during, or post-con.
I only ask because it's really common to not get your staff schedule until less then a week before the con. For example PAX east didn't make the staff schedule until the Friday (March 4th) before the con (most of which were coming on Thursday) So not only did you not know what department you were in you also didn't know which shift until less then a week before. Zenkaikon, I would have had my staff's schedule out two weeks before (beating PAX) BUT the con chair fucked up and said she was sending them out only to not do it (so it went out a week before).
We knew nothing at any point. We only would have found out our schedule and responsibilities after already going to Baltimore.
We were 100% ignored until we said effectively "if no one responds, we won't be able to commit to coming to Otakon this year." Only then did anyone correspond with us.
Right, and then you agreed to continue and bailed at the last minute.
Basically, once they got back to you, you should've either bailed then and there or followed through.
The gameplan changed out from under us months after it had been arranged with no communication or responses to our repeated questions.
Gameplans change. It happens. The lack of communication from Otakon is certainly problematic, but as you said, you eventually got a response. And they obviously didn't say nothing at all, as you were aware of this:
There was other drama, but it was mostly silly, much of it from the staff forum and the staff convention I attended. I omit it from public discussion only to prevent further drama. But good god, was there a lot of it.
Basically, it was pretty clear that it was poorly managed, and you should've just backed out the moment it changed. You waited too long, and that was dickish.
Which is why I'm really wondering why you even want to try staffing again. You two are always all about cutting out the suck from your lives, yet when a con drops the ball this hard, you continue going back.
I'm really advocating redirecting your energies to more productive areas. You could do much more for CTcon than you could for Otakon. CTcon actually seems to listen.
Right, and then you agreed to continue and bailed at the last minute.
No, we didn't agree to continue. It wasn't until the actual bailing that anyone responded, and the response was suspending us from the staff immediately with no further communication. ;^)
Which is why I'm really wondering why you even want to try staffing again.
We don't. I gave up on Otakon staffing a long time ago. We're willing to do our content for them, but I no longer have any interest in the staff side of it.
You two are always all about cutting out the suck from your lives, yet when a con drops the ball this hard, you continue going back.
All drama is water under the bridge if a con lets us put on a good show. It's no skin off my back to offer them the same thing we offer every year.
I'm really advocating redirecting your energies to more productive areas. You could do much more for CTcon than you could for Otakon. CTcon actually seems to listen
CTcon does let us run panels, but they are also not without problems. We would have had the panel application form up in October if not for obstructions in our way.
I'm really advocating redirecting your energies to more productive areas. You could do much more for CTcon than you could for Otakon. CTcon actually seems to listen.
It's not really "redirecting", because them working to improve Otakon doesn't detract that much from their ability to improve CTcon and vice versa. In 2011 there are three weeks between the two conventions, and there's plenty of time to prepare in advance for both of them.
CTcon does let us run panels, but they are also not without problems. We would have had the panel application form up in October if not for obstructions in our way.
I'm pretty sure that's more of the issue that they didn't have anyone at the time and you came along at a good time.
I'm pretty sure that's more of the issue that they didn't have anyone at the time and you came along at a good time.
Well, we went one year, and panned ConnectiCon on GeekNights. They heard the review, and invited us to volunteer and fix the problems we saw. We responded immediately, and ran eleven panels for them the next year.
That went super well, so the next year they gave us an entire panel room to schedule and program ourselves.
That also went super well, so the next year they put us in charge of ALL the panel rooms. That went better than any ConnectiCon had ever gone panel-wise.
I still think the level of stupid shit going down with Otakon warrants completely ignoring the con for the time being.
Technically they only blew there first chance of your three :-p
Maybe if you count last year as one fuck up. How many times did they attempt to contact the staff without a response? After three times, I would have said, "Okay, fuck you guys. Obviously you do not have your shit together. Peace." Otakon has been teh suck for awhile. Maybe it's just because I was dealing with the Artist Alley bullshit, but they blew the 3 strikes for me awhile back. I think I was the first one of the crew to swear off Otakon.
Maybe if you count last year as one fuck up. How many times did they attempt to contact the staff without a response? After three times, I would have said, "Okay, fuck you guys. Obviously you do not have your shit together. Peace." Otakon has been teh suck for awhile. Maybe it's just because I was dealing with the Artist Alley bullshit, but they blew the 3 strikes for me awhile back. I think I was the first one of the crew to swear off Otakon.
No, or very late, response to e-mail is par for the course for just about every convention. If we considered a non-responded e-mail to be a strike, we would be at no conventions.
No, or very late, response to e-mail is par for the course for just about every convention. If we considered a non-responded e-mail to be a strike, we would be at no conventions.
I'm sure Scott would have stopped dealing with Rym at this point as well ^_^
I'm not in the loop that much but last year myself and a few friend applied to do panels. Which turned into a huge cluster fuck. It was for a panel I had already done the only thing I needed to do was to updated it, so I could have ran it last minute with out much of a problem. The issue for me was with registering. People applying to panels were told not to register until they found out about their panel. Which after that mess ended up being just shortly before the con. I could have spent less money if I had know in advance that I wasn't going to get a panel. And in terms of doing a new panel I'd like to know if it is accepted first before I do a ton of work on it. Last year I ended up spending 10+ hours just updating my panel, which had been choosen to be a "back up" panel if need be. Thinking about this mess just makes me want to slam my head into the desk. Hopefully this year will be better.
Maybe if you count last year as one fuck up. How many times did they attempt to contact the staff without a response? After three times, I would have said, "Okay, fuck you guys. Obviously you do not have your shit together. Peace." Otakon has been teh suck for awhile. Maybe it's just because I was dealing with the Artist Alley bullshit, but they blew the 3 strikes for me awhile back. I think I was the first one of the crew to swear off Otakon.
No, or very late, response to e-mail is par for the course for just about every convention. If we considered a non-responded e-mail to be a strike, we would be at no conventions.
Yeah, but it resets when they respond. I mean, come on - three times? The least they can do is shoot something off in response to the second email saying sorry they haven't responded, but they are busy or don't know anything yet. That would be an acceptable response.
No, or very late, response to e-mail is par for the course for just about every convention. If we considered a non-responded e-mail to be a strike, we would be at no conventions.
I'm sure Scott would have stopped dealing with Rym at this point as well ^_^
Yeah, there was a point where I stopped corresponding with Rym because he never answered anything. Once he got his shit together, we started corresponding again. This is the same approach I'm taking towards Otakon.
Maybe it's just because I was dealing with the Artist Alley bullshit, but they blew the 3 strikes for me awhile back. I think I was the first one of the crew to swear off Otakon.
Oh riiight, I remember hearing an earful from you that year about AA registration and setup at-con. It last almost all the way to the Renaissance.
Maybe if you count last year as one fuck up. How many times did they attempt to contact the staff without a response? After three times, I would have said, "Okay, fuck you guys. Obviously you do not have your shit together. Peace." Otakon has been teh suck for awhile. Maybe it's just because I was dealing with the Artist Alley bullshit, but they blew the 3 strikes for me awhile back. I think I was the first one of the crew to swear off Otakon.
No, or very late, response to e-mail is par for the course for just about every convention. If we considered a non-responded e-mail to be a strike, we would be at no conventions.
Yeah, but it resets when they respond. I mean, come on - three times? The least they can do is shoot something off in response to the second email saying sorry they haven't responded, but they are busy or don't know anything yet. That would be an acceptable response.
Most volunteer convention staff just don't even check their e-mail period, ever. Even PAX people are inconsistent. Sometimes they reply immediately from their Blackberry. Other times you just never get a response. There's no way to predict it.
Oh I just remembered, one of the artist alley people at Zenkaikon was wearing one of your tentacle shirts Nuri ^_^ (she was a fan of your podcast and such)
Oh I just remembered, one of the artist alley people at Zenkaikon was wearing one of your tentacle shirts Nuri ^_^ (she was a fan of your podcast and such)
I actually saw someone in the AA at zenkaikon selling very similar shirts, but they were lower quality.
Comments
The more appropriate analogy is something like, "Imagine you show up to work thinking you have X to do, but then you wind up with X, Y, and Z to do." The thing is, X, Y, and Z, are all in the job description. That is literally how my current job works. I show up with some things to do, and shit changes during the course of the day. My job is to stay on top of and managed constantly evolving situations.
Really, that's a lot of what running any organization involves. You have to be flexible, because who knows what could happen when you cram 25,000 nerds into one place. I wouldn't assume that they just accepted your terms unless they explicitly stated so.
There was other drama, but it was mostly silly, much of it from the staff forum and the staff convention I attended. I omit it from public discussion only to prevent further drama. But good god, was there a lot of it.
So late in the game and against our original agreement? We would have offered to just run our panels instead. We'd already declined ALL of the perks of being staff (hotel, food, everything).
It was neither in the job description nor an acceptable diversion according to initial negotiations.
I still think the level of stupid shit going down with Otakon warrants completely ignoring the con for the time being.
Basically, once they got back to you, you should've either bailed then and there or followed through. Gameplans change. It happens. The lack of communication from Otakon is certainly problematic, but as you said, you eventually got a response. And they obviously didn't say nothing at all, as you were aware of this: Basically, it was pretty clear that it was poorly managed, and you should've just backed out the moment it changed. You waited too long, and that was dickish.
Which is why I'm really wondering why you even want to try staffing again. You two are always all about cutting out the suck from your lives, yet when a con drops the ball this hard, you continue going back.
I'm really advocating redirecting your energies to more productive areas. You could do much more for CTcon than you could for Otakon. CTcon actually seems to listen.
That went super well, so the next year they gave us an entire panel room to schedule and program ourselves.
That also went super well, so the next year they put us in charge of ALL the panel rooms. That went better than any ConnectiCon had ever gone panel-wise.