Yeah, I know. They were trying to convince to show up for the land grab, but I'm not sure that I want to do a camping event for two straight weeks, in what I am told is brutally oppressive heat.
I'd really love to go again, but I've already spent too much money getting a new Macbook and I didn't even get the chance to spend time with any FRCers there. So, perhaps next year.
Yeah, I know. They were trying to convince to show up for the land grab, but I'm not sure that I want to do a camping event for two straight weeks, in what I am told is brutally oppressive heat.
Depends on where the encampment is. If It's on the Serengeti, then it's hotter than if it's on the hill or in the bog. It's probably on the Geti. It gets pretty hot inside the nylon tents during the day, but you don't stay inside then. It's cold at night. It can be a great 2-week vacation, but for your first time it's probably better not to do all of land grab. Classes and stuff usually start land grab Weds; there's not much to do before that except lounge around and relax or help other people put up campsites.
Whelp, we've submitted our panels, so we'll see what happens.
Considering we've done 16 panels for Otakon in the last several years (beginning with a string of one a year since 2002), it will be very telling if they don't accept them. It would literally be the first time they have ever not accepted panels from us. ^_~
More interesting, we've done 13 panels for PAX since we started in 2008. PAX will be our most prolific convention (not counting ConnectiCon obviously) trivially with another year's worth of programming. Anime Boston and Zenkaikon are rising on the list as well, due to a scaling back of NYCC/NYAF programming and the dropping of Katsucon. MAGFest is a dark horse, but their move to the Gaylord has basically sealed the deal, and we'll return as guests forevermore as long as they'll have us. (WOOOOOOAAAAARRRGH!)
Not to "incite a mob," but if you are attending Otakon, and you want our programming, let them know. If we don't appear at the con, it's entirely their decision: not ours.
Considering we've done 16 panels for Otakon in the last several years (beginning with a string of one a year since 2002), it will be very telling if they don't accept them. It would literally be the first time they have ever not accepted panels from us. ^_~
Didn't you bail on them at the last minute last year? I would be less than surprised if they didn't accept you again because of that, even though you were totally justified.
Didn't you bail on them at the last minute last year? I would be less than surprised if they didn't accept you again because of that, even though you were totally justified.
Didn't you bail on them at the last minute last year? I would be less than surprised if they didn't accept you again because of that, even though you were totally justified.
*nods*
It's very possible they won't accept us because of that. If so, it's their loss, not ours. Even if they do accept us, if they have extreme delays and difficulties like last year, we will probably bail again. Every single other convention we work with is extremely cooperative. They are more than happy to work together with us, as much as they can, for the benefit of the attendees of the convention. Otakon is the only convention that has been actively uncooperative. We try to work with them, and they respond by antagonizing us. Our strict no-drama policy comes into effect.
It's very possible they won't accept us because of that. If so, it's their loss, not ours. Even if they do accept us, if they have extreme delays and difficulties like last year, we will probably bail again. Every single other convention we work with is extremely cooperative. They are more than happy to work together with us, as much as they can, for the benefit of the attendees of the convention. Otakon is the only convention that has been actively uncooperative. We try to work with them, and they respond by antagonizing us. Our strict no-drama policy comes into effect.
OK, let me turn the situation around, then. If they consistently give you a hard time, and drop the ball, and create drama, why do you keep going back?
It's sort of like the abused wife who keeps going back to her husband, only to leave again. Just get a divorce already.
It's very possible they won't accept us because of that. If so, it's their loss, not ours. Even if they do accept us, if they have extreme delays and difficulties like last year, we will probably bail again. Every single other convention we work with is extremely cooperative. They are more than happy to work together with us, as much as they can, for the benefit of the attendees of the convention. Otakon is the only convention that has been actively uncooperative. We try to work with them, and they respond by antagonizing us. Our strict no-drama policy comes into effect.
OK, let me turn the situation around, then. If they consistently give you a hard time, and drop the ball, and create drama, why do you keep going back?
It's sort of like the abused wife who keeps going back to her husband, only to leave again. Just get a divorce already.
Because we're not doing it for them, we're doing it for the people who pay to go to Otakon. At least some of them want to see our panels, and we want to do them. If Otakon gets in the way and rejects us, no harm done. We'll give them every opportunity to change their ways. It doesn't cost us anything. Also, applying and being rejected makes it perfectly clear that we are willing to go there and work for free, and the only thing preventing it is them.
Also Otakon is not like a abusive partner because every year the staff is different. The crappy panel guy of last year might not be there. Since there is so much staff turn over and such you never know how they will react and they still get 27,000k people so like Rubin said there are people they can only see them at this event.. So why not at least put it out there.
We'll give them every opportunity to change their ways.
So you want to do panels for the people at Otakon, but only if Otakon does it your way? You want Otakon to change to suit what you think it ought to be.
You want to do the panels for yourselves, to force Otakon to do things the way you two think is best. Otakon will fill the slot you would've occupied with something else, so the con-goers will get entertainment no matter what.
This has nothing to do with the con-goers and everything to do with your egos. That's why you encounter the resistance you do; everyone else can see what it is that you're really after. That attitude is what caused your PAX late show to bomb.
So seriously, stop with the whole "I don't know about Otakon; we might just bail." If you commit to doing panels, you commit to doing panels. Bailing is weak. If they won't do it your way from the start, don't commit to the panels.
Also Otakon is not like a abusive partner because every year the staff is different. The crappy panel guy of last year might not be there. Since there is so much staff turn over and such you never know how they will react and they still get 27,000k people so like Rubin said there are people they can only see them at this event.. So why not at least put it out there.
Well, I do think that the crappy non-PAX Aaron "volunteering should suck" Clark is still on Otakon staff. But I have heard that the former sexual harassment head of panels is head of panels again. I wish Meredith would just be head of panels again.
So seriously, stop with the whole "I don't know about Otakon; we might just bail." If you commit to doing panels, you commit to doing panels. Bailing is weak. If they won't do it your way from the start, don't commit to the panels.
Well, I do think that the crappy non-PAX Aaron "volunteering should suck" Clark is still on Otakon staff. But I have heard that the former sexual harassment head of panels is head of panels again. I wish Meredith would just be head of panels again.
That's a fucked up way to be known as for a staff member. What is the story behind that? I know the "volunteering should suck" story.
So seriously, stop with the whole "I don't know about Otakon; we might just bail." If you commit to doing panels, you commit to doing panels. Bailing is weak. If they won't do it your way from the start, don't commit to the panels.
We were willing to do the panels their way. They rejected every single one of our new ideas, such as moderated showing rooms. Despite that, we were still going to go and do the normal panels that they requested. We bailed only for two reasons. One, we were technically staff last year, yet we were not given any instructions whatsoever as to what our staff duties would be. Even with that, we would still go, but they did not have our panels or schedule until the last possible minute, giving us horrendously insufficient time. We couldn't go down there to do panels we weren't prepared to do. It's not like we need that much lead time, they just had an intolerable delay. We got on the plane, it sat on the tarmac for 8 hours, we were already late, so we just got off and went home.
I dunno. I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, you knew your panels were accepted, right? You knew which panels they wanted you to do? Presumably you could prepare them, even without knowing what the schedule would look like. I understand to take time off of work you need to have it quite a bit of time in advance, but I would assume you would just always get the Thursday-Friday and following Monday off. Unless you didn't have panels on Friday, you might just come up on Friday, which I guess is sorta understandable. Still, it seems slightly ridiculous, while your points are partially valid.
It's not like we need that much lead time, they just had an intolerable delay.
Even with that, we would still go, but they did not have our panels or schedule until the last possible minute, giving us horrendously insufficient time.
So you don't need much prep time and you can do panels at the drop of a hat, but Otakon needs to give you prep time?
Again, weak. You knew what panels you were going to do, and you could've easily done something. At the point when you bailed, you had needed to show up, even if you gave a less-than-perfect performance.
All I'm hearing is excuses and an implied "our time is more important than anyone else's time." That's why Otakon gives you shit - you approach the con with a superior attitude that they have yet to see justified.
Do you know how Beowulf became king of the Geats? He crossed the sea and dealt with someone else's problem. He didn't sit there yelling at the Geats saying "Make me king! Make me king!" He sacked up and showed people why he should be king.
You've got the boasting part down. Hell, you might even have the hand-grip of 30 men. Now you need to go to find a beleaguered mead-hall and murder a troll.
Basically, you need to 1) say that you're going to do something big and awesome and then 2) actually do the big and awesome thing. Then tell people about it. That'll get Otakon's attention.
So you don't need much prep time and you can do panels at the drop of a hat, but Otakon needs to give you prep time?
Again, weak. You knew what panels you were going to do, and you could've easily done something. At the point when you bailed, you had needed to show up, even if you gave a less-than-perfect performance.
We didn't bail because the panel schedule was late. The panel schedule literally had nothing to do with it.
We bailed because the STAFF schedule was late. We supposedly had staff duties at-con, but no one would tell us what they were. No one responded to our questions. The schedule for panels was super super late, but all offers to help were refused/ignored. They seemingly expected us to work undisclosed hours manning panel rooms. By all appearances, they wanted us to show up and work most of the con manning panel rooms, something we'd not been planning on doing. They wouldn't respond to any of our questions about what they wanted us to do.
I wasn't about to fly out to Baltimore only to have a staff shirt and badge, coupled with 20 or so hours of work, thrown at me unexpectedly.
That's the only reason we bailed. We could trivially have done the panels, but with no answers as to the rest of our duties, we couldn't in good faith show up. They only reached out to us after we publicly bailed, but otherwise ignored our every question. We're content with their current panels process. Poorly managed as it is, it never caused us a problem. The problem came when they invited us onto the staff, ignored all of our offers to help pre-con, ignored all of our questions, and expected us to do work we hadn't agreed to.
Basically, you need to 1) say that you're going to do something big and awesome and then 2) actually do the big and awesome thing. Then tell people about it. That'll get Otakon's attention.
This is why we're now in charge of panels for ConnectiCon, are guests at MAGFest, get whatever panels we want at both PAXes, are monetarily compensated by Anime Boston, etc... ^_~ Only Otakon has ever been a problem, and only then when they invited us onto the staff. Our relationship with them as panelists only is fine.
So don't do anything. Show up, do your panels, and nothing else. Then, when they ask why you weren't somewhere, tell them, "Nobody told us we were needed there."
By all appearances, they wanted us to show up and work most of the con manning panel rooms, something we'd not been planning on doing
I'm pretty sure that when you sign up to be a staffer, you do what they tell you to do. If you're a panelist, you plan on doing panels.
Sounds to me like your real problem is that they wouldn't let you call your own shots.
Our relationship with them as panelists only is fine.
So instead of bailing on the whole thing, you bail on the staff part of your responsibilities. Or only sign up to do panels, and don't do anything else.
If what you want to do is entertain the people, then you should just do panels.
Again, weak. You knew what panels you were going to do, and you could've easily done something. At the point when you bailed, you had needed to show up, even if you gave a less-than-perfect performance.
It was not worth it to arrange expensive transport and lodging in Baltimore to do a couple crappy poorly prepared panels. Not to mention that we would have to stay an extra expensive hotel night just to get badges on Thursday instead of Friday.
Basically, you need to 1) say that you're going to do something big and awesome and then 2) actually do the big and awesome thing. Then tell people about it. That'll get Otakon's attention.
We did exactly that at every Otakon for eight years in a row. We said we would do panels, and then did them. All we required was for them to tell us our schedule with enough advance notice. They did so on every occasion until '10. We repeatedly asked year after year to be allowed to do more awesome things, and were rejected on every single front.
Otakon is always begging for more volunteers. Here we have been volunteering for years, and were rejected on every front. Every other convention, such as PAX, Connecticon, Anime Boston, MAGFest, Katsucon (back in the day), Zenkaikon, etc. has been extremely cooperative. We ask to do things, and even though they don't say yes to everything, we at least get something. CTCon let us head panels. Anime Boston gives us $200, EACH, which we didn't even bother to collect last year, but it's the thought that counts. PAX cooperates with us a great deal. NYCC/NYAF tries to cooperate, and sort of falls short, but they try.
We offer to walk the walk, and every convention says yes, and we do the walking to match the talking. Only Otakon says no, do not walk.
We did exactly that at every Otakon for eight years in a row.
No, you do panels like countless other people.
The most awesome and noteworthy thing the two of you have attempted to present at a con is the PAX late show, and it bombed.
People don't see you doing awesome stuff with the panels at CTcon, they see you talking a big game and then dropping the ball on your endeavors.
CTcon and PAX are your best avenues of success. I'm sure AB is pretty good too, but I've never been, so I can't really comment on it. CTcon is really your best avenue to do something truly awesome; take over the programming and turn it into what you'd like Otakon to be. Then, promote it and make it big.
That's what ripping Grendel's arm off would be. Panels are the sea serpents that Beowulf mentions in passing.
But seriously, agreeing to be staff and panelists and then bailing on the whole affair is extremely unprofessional. Just don't be staff at Otakon. If they won't take your "awesome" ideas, then don't continue pitching them. Take your ideas to more fertile ground.
Sounds to me like your real problem is that they wouldn't let you call your own shots.
When you accept a job, there is a job description. We signed up to be panels staff at Otakon and had expectations about what the job entailed. We made every effort to assist the panels department. At no point were we ever given any duties, despite the fact that the panels department desperately needed any help it could get. Rym even went to the staff convention.
Imagine if you accept a job doing some lab work, you show up and someone tells you that your job is going to be driving a bulldozer. I wasn't about to walk into that situation. That's not what we signed up for. It was also a high risk move. If we went there and refused to do menial labor, which we did not agree to do, they could have kicked us out of the convention. That's a lot of hotel and travel expense and time for nothing. They were actively hostile and uncommunicative.
I'm just willing to give anyone as many chances as they need to straighten up their act.
Comments
Also, I was referring to Otakon.
Considering we've done 16 panels for Otakon in the last several years (beginning with a string of one a year since 2002), it will be very telling if they don't accept them. It would literally be the first time they have ever not accepted panels from us. ^_~
More interesting, we've done 13 panels for PAX since we started in 2008. PAX will be our most prolific convention (not counting ConnectiCon obviously) trivially with another year's worth of programming. Anime Boston and Zenkaikon are rising on the list as well, due to a scaling back of NYCC/NYAF programming and the dropping of Katsucon. MAGFest is a dark horse, but their move to the Gaylord has basically sealed the deal, and we'll return as guests forevermore as long as they'll have us. (WOOOOOOAAAAARRRGH!)
Not to "incite a mob," but if you are attending Otakon, and you want our programming, let them know. If we don't appear at the con, it's entirely their decision: not ours.
It's sort of like the abused wife who keeps going back to her husband, only to leave again. Just get a divorce already.
You want to do the panels for yourselves, to force Otakon to do things the way you two think is best. Otakon will fill the slot you would've occupied with something else, so the con-goers will get entertainment no matter what.
This has nothing to do with the con-goers and everything to do with your egos. That's why you encounter the resistance you do; everyone else can see what it is that you're really after. That attitude is what caused your PAX late show to bomb.
So seriously, stop with the whole "I don't know about Otakon; we might just bail." If you commit to doing panels, you commit to doing panels. Bailing is weak. If they won't do it your way from the start, don't commit to the panels.
Again, weak. You knew what panels you were going to do, and you could've easily done something. At the point when you bailed, you had needed to show up, even if you gave a less-than-perfect performance.
All I'm hearing is excuses and an implied "our time is more important than anyone else's time." That's why Otakon gives you shit - you approach the con with a superior attitude that they have yet to see justified.
Do you know how Beowulf became king of the Geats? He crossed the sea and dealt with someone else's problem. He didn't sit there yelling at the Geats saying "Make me king! Make me king!" He sacked up and showed people why he should be king.
You've got the boasting part down. Hell, you might even have the hand-grip of 30 men. Now you need to go to find a beleaguered mead-hall and murder a troll.
Basically, you need to 1) say that you're going to do something big and awesome and then 2) actually do the big and awesome thing. Then tell people about it. That'll get Otakon's attention.
We bailed because the STAFF schedule was late. We supposedly had staff duties at-con, but no one would tell us what they were. No one responded to our questions. The schedule for panels was super super late, but all offers to help were refused/ignored. They seemingly expected us to work undisclosed hours manning panel rooms. By all appearances, they wanted us to show up and work most of the con manning panel rooms, something we'd not been planning on doing. They wouldn't respond to any of our questions about what they wanted us to do.
I wasn't about to fly out to Baltimore only to have a staff shirt and badge, coupled with 20 or so hours of work, thrown at me unexpectedly.
That's the only reason we bailed. We could trivially have done the panels, but with no answers as to the rest of our duties, we couldn't in good faith show up. They only reached out to us after we publicly bailed, but otherwise ignored our every question. We're content with their current panels process. Poorly managed as it is, it never caused us a problem. The problem came when they invited us onto the staff, ignored all of our offers to help pre-con, ignored all of our questions, and expected us to do work we hadn't agreed to.
Sounds to me like your real problem is that they wouldn't let you call your own shots. So instead of bailing on the whole thing, you bail on the staff part of your responsibilities. Or only sign up to do panels, and don't do anything else.
If what you want to do is entertain the people, then you should just do panels.
Otakon is always begging for more volunteers. Here we have been volunteering for years, and were rejected on every front. Every other convention, such as PAX, Connecticon, Anime Boston, MAGFest, Katsucon (back in the day), Zenkaikon, etc. has been extremely cooperative. We ask to do things, and even though they don't say yes to everything, we at least get something. CTCon let us head panels. Anime Boston gives us $200, EACH, which we didn't even bother to collect last year, but it's the thought that counts. PAX cooperates with us a great deal. NYCC/NYAF tries to cooperate, and sort of falls short, but they try.
We offer to walk the walk, and every convention says yes, and we do the walking to match the talking. Only Otakon says no, do not walk.
The most awesome and noteworthy thing the two of you have attempted to present at a con is the PAX late show, and it bombed.
People don't see you doing awesome stuff with the panels at CTcon, they see you talking a big game and then dropping the ball on your endeavors.
CTcon and PAX are your best avenues of success. I'm sure AB is pretty good too, but I've never been, so I can't really comment on it. CTcon is really your best avenue to do something truly awesome; take over the programming and turn it into what you'd like Otakon to be. Then, promote it and make it big.
That's what ripping Grendel's arm off would be. Panels are the sea serpents that Beowulf mentions in passing.
But seriously, agreeing to be staff and panelists and then bailing on the whole affair is extremely unprofessional. Just don't be staff at Otakon. If they won't take your "awesome" ideas, then don't continue pitching them. Take your ideas to more fertile ground.
Imagine if you accept a job doing some lab work, you show up and someone tells you that your job is going to be driving a bulldozer. I wasn't about to walk into that situation. That's not what we signed up for. It was also a high risk move. If we went there and refused to do menial labor, which we did not agree to do, they could have kicked us out of the convention. That's a lot of hotel and travel expense and time for nothing. They were actively hostile and uncommunicative.
I'm just willing to give anyone as many chances as they need to straighten up their act.