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GeekNights Tuesday - The Games of MAGFest 2014

MrPeriodMrPeriod
in GeekNights

Tonight on GeekNights, back and bad, we talk about the games we played at MAGFest this year (where we appeared on four panels). Dig Dug, Hansa Teutonica (fun, deep), Coup (meh), Ginkopolis (getting a full show), Citadels (smart people ruin this game), Cheaty Mages! (light and fun), Jungle Speed Safari (sucks), Glory to Rome, and Eclipse with expansions (alliances ruin Eclipse: never use them).

In the news, Greg Martin - who you probably know from his work but not his name - has passed away. Also, The Stanley Parable is a wonderful idiogame (or "entertainment software" or "an interactive amusement" or whatever kind of "game" you want to call it). We further answer a listener question about political or direct-attacking games.

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Comments

  • ColdguyColdguy
    I know I have botched a rule in Hansa, I would like to say sorry in advance of listening to the episode.
  • RymRym
    Coldguy said:

    I know I have botched a rule in Hansa, I would like to say sorry in advance of listening to the episode.

    You are not the only one. My ire is distributed equally among no less than four people. =P

  • ColdguyColdguy
    Rym said:

    Coldguy said:

    I know I have botched a rule in Hansa, I would like to say sorry in advance of listening to the episode.

    You are not the only one. My ire is distributed equally among no less than four people. =P

    Ok that is common for this game. Also if you want a copy under $60 let me know and I can pick you up a copy from my FLGS.
  • AprecheApreche
    It's definitely the game's fault.
  • StarfoxStarfox
    2005
    2006
    2007
    2008
    2009
    2010
    2011
    2012
    2013
    2014

    That's ten. There are GeekNights from ten different years.
  • AprecheApreche
    Welp. Guess my work is done.
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    Wool is a good book. I think you'd both enjoy. And you'd both pick it apart. But enjoy picking it apart.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    Eclipse + simultaneous turns = amazing.
  • MattMatt
    Teaching games is a fucking art, and it really pays to master it.

    Oh and you guys will continue to be wrong about The Resistance vs. Mafia/Werewolf.

    Other things from the episode:
    - I really want to know more about this Strategy book
    - Bohnanza is a great suggestion for teaching people to love direct fucking in board games, and that is because trading is the most rewarding form of such fuckery. They will come to love the reward of getting the upper hand on someone from a lopsided trade.
  • wolfwolf
    Expansion map for Hansa Tuetonica is quite interesting once you get bored of the base map.

    http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/83404/hansa-teutonica-east-expansion

    Great game with a novel displacement mechanic not found in other games.
  • ColdguyColdguy
    wolf said:

    Expansion map for Hansa Tuetonica is quite interesting once you get bored of the base map.

    http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/83404/hansa-teutonica-east-expansion

    Great game with a novel displacement mechanic not found in other games.

    That board is awesome but I will not pay over $100 for a piece of cardboard.
  • wolfwolf
    Sucks the game is out of print. Yeah, not worth $100.
  • ColdguyColdguy
    wolf said:

    Sucks the game is out of print. Yeah, not worth $100.

    Z-Man does that with games, unless it is a super blockbuster they will discontinue the game and refuse to resell anything that they have about it. This makes older Z-Man stuff be super expensive since the games themselves are good but simply were not around long enough to get the return that they deserve.

  • RymRym
    Matt said:


    Oh and you guys will continue to be wrong about The Resistance vs. Mafia/Werewolf.

    I'm not saying The Resistance is a bad game. It just doesn't scratch any itches I have. I see a table of all very smart players ruining it.

  • ColdguyColdguy
    Rym said:

    Matt said:


    Oh and you guys will continue to be wrong about The Resistance vs. Mafia/Werewolf.

    I'm not saying The Resistance is a bad game. It just doesn't scratch any itches I have. I see a table of all very smart players ruining it.

    When you realize that the most important move is to look at the other people looking at their roles and reading their eyes the game breaks down from there.
  • RymRym
    Coldguy said:

    When you realize that the most important move is to look at the other people looking at their roles and reading their eyes the game breaks down from there.

    Thus the same problems as Citadels. Smart players all act randomly or mostly randomly. I literally choose roles randomly when I play Citadels with people who aren't deeply understanding of games.

  • AndrewAndrew
    Hansa Teutonica is bullshit.
  • lackofcheeselackofcheese
    Obviously random role selection is correct in Citadels, but for optimal play you need to have the right probability distribution.
  • MattMatt
    edited January 2014
    Coldguy said:

    wolf said:

    Sucks the game is out of print. Yeah, not worth $100.

    Z-Man does that with games, unless it is a super blockbuster they will discontinue the game and refuse to resell anything that they have about it. This makes older Z-Man stuff be super expensive since the games themselves are good but simply were not around long enough to get the return that they deserve.

    I was shocked to see that this was only published in 2009. Hansa just has the airs of something that was out back in the late 90s, post-Settlers. Yes, Z-Man generally blows as a publisher. I have never been a fan of their business model, where they will do small print runs of 30-something major games in a year and quite literally do zero publicity for them. People don't even realize they are coming out until they hit store shelves, and Zev just assumed the hits would stick (this did sometimes happen). Ultimately he got burned too many times, and burnt himself out, and sold his company off to a larger French-Canadian publisher looking to get a foothold in the US. To their credit, they are straightening their operations out, and it may just be dumb luck that they haven't had a must-buy title in a while.

    Post edited by Matt on
  • RymRym
    lackofcheese said:

    Obviously random role selection is correct in Citadels, but for optimal play you need to have the right probability distribution.

    So guided randomness. Truly, I don't act absolutely randomly. I decide down to arbitrary options, and then use physical randomness to decide the last step.

  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    Andrew said:

    Hansa Teutonica is bullshit.

    I'm definitely a fan of "ties mean try harder." Much anger. So rage.

    It's also less bullshit than being completely walled off in Eclipse and then going on to win.

  • AndrewAndrew
    edited January 2014
    TheWhaleShark said:

    It's also less bullshit than being completely walled off in Eclipse and then going on to win.

    image
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    edited January 2014
    Fuckin' right I will.

    I'm mostly pissed that I couldn't arm up well enough to actually counter you. Shoulda just stuck the fucking jump drive in my interceptors and spammed you with 'em.
    Post edited by TheWhaleShark on
  • CremlianCremlian
    I was very amused at how much you guys were dissing the simultaneous turns in Eclipse before the game..
  • RymRym
    Cremlian said:

    I was very amused at how much you guys were dissing the simultaneous turns in Eclipse before the game..

    s/you guys were/Scott was/

  • AprecheApreche
    Cremlian said:

    I was very amused at how much you guys were dissing the simultaneous turns in Eclipse before the game..

    It's the opposite of communism. On paper it sucks. In reality it kinda works.
  • pencepence
    I haven't listened yet, but this thread threw me off because there is also a game called Hansa.

    Winning is definitely possible in Eclipse if you are walled off in a high VP corner of space, it happened to me at MAGFest. Most hexes with ancients on them are worth more points, in addition to the points you get for discovery tiles and early combat. Simultaneous turns / no alliances is the way to go - I have played two dozen games of Eclipse and I'll never look back.
  • pencepence
    If your victory in Coup seems entirely random, it's because you're not bluffing enough and you're not considering the current (suspected) positional heuristics.

    Also yes, Eclipse alliances are bullshit. The player who seems 'powerful' is often not the player who is winning. One reason is that power on the board is not points. Another reason is a display of power on the board is often not as threatening as potential power that is not yet on the board. At my game at MAGFest, the table was convinced I was not winning for several turns, even after I told them I was winning.
  • CremlianCremlian
    pence said:

    If your victory in Coup seems entirely random, it's because you're not bluffing enough and you're not considering the current (suspected) positional heuristics.

    Also yes, Eclipse alliances are bullshit. The player who seems 'powerful' is often not the player who is winning. One reason is that power on the board is not points. Another reason is a display of power on the board is often not as threatening as potential power that is not yet on the board. At my game at MAGFest, the table was convinced I was not winning for several turns, even after I told them I was winning.

    Totally agree, this is why Pence is cool :-p

  • ColdguyColdguy
    Cremlian said:

    pence said:

    If your victory in Coup seems entirely random, it's because you're not bluffing enough and you're not considering the current (suspected) positional heuristics.

    Totally agree, this is why Pence is cool :-p

    Thirded, it is WAY better than Resistance/Avalon and quick enough to be a great gap filler.
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