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GeekNights Monday - Peeple's rise and immediate fall



  • Entirely fair.
  • Its really one of those cases where yeah you can say both sides are stupid or bad, but one of those is just objectively worse. Like there's plenty I don't like about both Republicans and Democrats, but Republicans are definitely the greater of two evils. Sure there's plenty of annoying people of a certain flavor of feminist but besides a few big ones (who are mostly only relevant in academic or feminist circles anyway) most are young and just discovered it and latched on to whatever kind they were first introduced too and will mellow out in a few years. On the gator/anti-feminist side you have a lot more people actually sending threats of violence. Getting offended too easily kinda isn't nearly as bad as rape threats.

    On a side note, it does sadden me when people who aren't really hardcore about it identify as anti-feminists because they probably actually agree with a lot of normal feminists views but they just don't want to use that word because of a few people who scream the loudest who use that term and assume tha'ts what all feminists believe. But I digress.
  • edited March 2016

    objectively worse

    Why not acknowledge the subjectivity elephant? People disguise pragmatic mechanisms of functional society and personal preferences as morality, or secularly, objectivity.

    On a side note, it does sadden me when people ... identify as anti-feminists because ... they just don't want to use that word

    I think it has to do with "patriarchal" function: many women are socialized to seek (possibly compete for) acceptability/desirability/harmony (depending on the cultural values); individualistic societies reward people who set themselves apart (via approved methods). Pushing a straw-feminist, aka "other women", under the bus is a classic and time-tested method of earning approval.

    But, more pointedly, while there are some very thought provoking reasons to identify differently (e.g. the womanist movement), policing feminist dogma and defining The right way to be feminist can easily end up being another link in the chain.

    Not picking a fight, just indulging some musings.
    Post edited by no fun girl on
  • edited March 2016
    A feminist is someone who thinks women should be treated equally to men.

    Full stop.
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • Daikun said:

    Wow, that heated up quickly. Like I said, I don't give a shit. Pro- and anti-Gators are both forms of cancer, so please drop it.

    I'm going to stop you right there.

    At best, "pro-gamergaters" are dangerously naive, profoundly ignorant, and aggressive. On average, they misogynistic shitheads. There's really no argument about that.

    There are no "anti" gamergaters. There are gamergate shitheads being harmful to everyone around them, and then there is the rest of humanity.

    Don't pull that bullshit "they're both bad" nonsense here. It's the safe position of people who have nothing to lose with the status quo. There isn't even a "both" here.
  • edited March 2016

    A feminist is someone who thinks women should be treated equally to men.

    Full stop.

    My thought was more that there is a difference in the use, meaning, & function of phrases like tumblr feminist versus #solidarityisforwhitewomen in how (and if) they contribute to feminism. When discussing Gaters, the topic of "bad feminists" inevitably comes up, and self proclaimed feminists can't distance themselves fast enough to maintain legitimacy.
    Post edited by no fun girl on
  • You generally shouldn't follow anyone who demands their audience not trust the media because it's taking over the world and pushing agendas...but then they want you to fund their Youtube-bitch show so they can spread more of a "revolutionary" point of view? Don't listen to them. It's the same reason you shouldn't listen to Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones. Hatemongering/Demagoguery in the most evil fashion.
  • @no fun girl Yeah I realize my post was kind of word vomit and I probably should have used a word other than objectively but I agree with your points.

    If we're going with GreatTeacherMacRoss's definition, then I absolutely agree with that. There are just so many flavors of feminist theory that the waters seem fairly muddied. And I take issue with how some intersectional feminists are pretty marxist and some talk about how feminism isn't about personal choice which seems fairly contrary. But it's all subjective I guess.
  • But it's all subjective I guess.

    We act as though subjectivity is flawed because so many subjective things are presented as objective, in a culture and language that favors absolutes. And owning one's opinions makes one vulnerable to being considered X% wrong.

    I agree with you that feminism is muddy. It must be under the assumption that women and their perspectives are non-monolithic, while aiming to use unity to provoke change. That makes honestly subjective critique important and equally frustrating.
  • Daikun said:
    Yes. Because literally every human being who isn't a piece of shit is technically "anti" gamergate.

    There's no organized movement against it. There doesn't need to be. We're all "anti" gamergate in the same way that we're "anti" nazis, "anti" food poisoning, "anti" stabbing yourself in the eye with a toothpick.

    You seem to be trying to defend gamergate with classic "both sides are bad" nonsense.
  • edited March 2016
    There's especially no organized movement against it because lots of people who hate gamergate don't get along with each other. It turns out "Not being a misogynistic prick who wants to hold games back" isn't a very high bar for people to live up to.
    Post edited by Axel on
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