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GeekNights Tuesday - Dance Dance Revolution

MrPeriodMrPeriod
in GeekNights

Dance Dance Revolution (DDR) is the topic of tonight's GeekNights. It's one of the more important games ever made, and you would do yourself a favor by trying it if you've never played. The PAX Prime 2015 Schedule is live, including two panels with us! Fig, purporting to be Kickstarter for equity, launches with some smart people working for them. If they succeed, this will be a gamechanger. Literally. We also had a powerful game of Tigris & Euphrates, which remains to this day our favorite tabletop orthogame.

We previously discussed DDR in an ancient (2006) review of DDR Supernova in Wildwood in the waning days of the last arcades. We also gave a lecture on DDR and similar games at PAX Prime 2011!

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Comments

  • open_sketchbookopen_sketchbook
    Oh, now you're repeating episodes?

    Fuck you, Geeknights. You used to be cool.
  • RymRym
    open_sketchbook said:

    Oh, now you're repeating episodes?

    Fuck you, Geeknights. You used to be cool.

    Which specific episode did we repeat?

    That ancient episode from 2006 was a review of 9th mix. ;^)

  • open_sketchbookopen_sketchbook
    Rym said:

    open_sketchbook said:

    Oh, now you're repeating episodes?

    Fuck you, Geeknights. You used to be cool.

    Which specific episode did we repeat?

    That ancient episode from 2006 was a review of 9th mix. ;^)
    ... you win this round, Rym.
  • wryterrawryterra
    Well this is a timely episode. Thanks, guys!
  • MattMatt
    I did enjoy the bit about making tons of money via investments in video games, followed up by not remembering who Kim Swift is. She invented Portal! If her name comes up on Fig, throw a few dollars that way. ;)

  • MechanicalMindMechanicalMind
    edited August 2015
    Matt said:

    I did enjoy the bit about making tons of money via investments in video games, followed up by not remembering who Kim Swift is. She invented Portal! If her name comes up on Fig, throw a few dollars that way. ;)

    Ever heard of Quantum Conundrum? You shouldn't attribute a whole games success to one person.
    Post edited by MechanicalMind on
  • AprecheApreche
    MechanicalMind said:

    Matt said:

    I did enjoy the bit about making tons of money via investments in video games, followed up by not remembering who Kim Swift is. She invented Portal! If her name comes up on Fig, throw a few dollars that way. ;)

    Ever heard of Quantum Conundrum? You shouldn't attribute a whole games success to one person.
    She made that game also.
  • MechanicalMindMechanicalMind
    That's the point, it wasn't that great. The puzzles were average, the story was okay and for a physics based puzzle game the physics were pretty shit.

    I'm just saying don't throw money at her "because Portal" as the greatness in Portal can probably be attributed by the teams at Valve, rather than that one woman.
  • AprecheApreche
    MechanicalMind said:

    That's the point, it wasn't that great. The puzzles were average, the story was okay and for a physics based puzzle game the physics were pretty shit.

    I'm just saying don't throw money at her "because Portal" as the greatness in Portal can probably be attributed by the teams at Valve, rather than that one woman.

    That's sort of how making things works. John Carmack made Wolfenstein 3D, and then Doom. It's not like a Doom just popped out of nowhere.
  • MechanicalMindMechanicalMind
    and the rest of idSoftware. I'm just saying theres more to a development team than just the lead developer. It seems silly to kickstart/fund a game based solely on the fact Kim Swift is involved.
  • AprecheApreche
    MechanicalMind said:

    and the rest of idSoftware. I'm just saying theres more to a development team than just the lead developer. It seems silly to kickstart/fund a game based solely on the fact Kim Swift is involved.

    Even though works of art are created by teams, most people working on those teams do not have very much creative input. It takes a tremendously large number of people to make a movie, yet when you watch a movie directed by Spielberg, Kubrick, Miyazaki, Kon, HItchcock, etc. you can unmistakably see that the end product is heavily influenced by the director. The camera operators, for example, are highly skilled, but they aren't making creative decisions.

    And so it is with video games. Even though a ton of people work on video games, the director of a game has the most creative input and the game is more their work than anyone else's. A game directed by Miyamoto, Side Meier, Molyneux, etc. is clearly the result of that designers creative input.

    We all Kickstarted Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night because of Igarashi's name. We all Kickstarted Mighty No. 9 because of Inafune's name. Why not Kickstart for Kim Swift as well?
  • ColdguyColdguy
    Apreche said:


    We all Kickstarted Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night because of Igarashi's name. We all Kickstarted Mighty No. 9 because of Inafune's name. Why not Kickstart for Kim Swift as well?

    Not me, with any kickstarted project unless I personally know the operation or can have the creator pay me back in a dinner if it fails I do not kickstart shit.

    This is why I pimp out Unpub as much as I do. Not only do i know what games are legit, but I can get a read on the designer to see if they are trustworthy.
  • AprecheApreche
    Coldguy said:

    Apreche said:


    We all Kickstarted Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night because of Igarashi's name. We all Kickstarted Mighty No. 9 because of Inafune's name. Why not Kickstart for Kim Swift as well?

    Not me, with any kickstarted project unless I personally know the operation or can have the creator pay me back in a dinner if it fails I do not kickstart shit.

    This is why I pimp out Unpub as much as I do. Not only do i know what games are legit, but I can get a read on the designer to see if they are trustworthy.
    Ok, so you're some weirdo who doesn't Kickstart things. That doesn't change the fact that a game directed by Kim Swift will share many of the hallmarks of previous games directed by Kim Swift. If someone likes previous works she has made, they are very likely to enjoy other things she makes in the future. The same is true for all creative directors.
  • ApsupApsup
    Scott, do you remember the time when John Romero made you his bitch? Or Star Wars prequels?

    There are enough examples of person with good track record doing mediocre and even shitty things in the future, that just blindly trusting a name is a gamble. It's gamble with better odds than trusting some no-name, but still a gamble.
  • AprecheApreche
    edited August 2015
    Apsup said:

    Scott, do you remember the time when John Romero made you his bitch? Or Star Wars prequels?

    There are enough examples of person with good track record doing mediocre and even shitty things in the future, that just blindly trusting a name is a gamble. It's gamble with better odds than trusting some no-name, but still a gamble.

    Not everything someone makes is of equal quality. But everything someone makes carries their trademarks. Not every Tim Burton movie is fantastic, but they are all unmistakably Tim Burton's movies, even though so many people worked on them.

    If Kim Swift is making a game, good or bad, it's going to share many characteristics with Portal. Since that's the case, sign me the hell up.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • ApsupApsup
    Apreche said:

    Apsup said:

    Scott, do you remember the time when John Romero made you his bitch? Or Star Wars prequels?

    There are enough examples of person with good track record doing mediocre and even shitty things in the future, that just blindly trusting a name is a gamble. It's gamble with better odds than trusting some no-name, but still a gamble.

    Not everything someone makes is of equal quality. But everything someone makes carries their trademarks. Not every Tim Burton movie is fantastic, but they are all unmistakably Tim Burton's movies, even though so many people worked on them.

    If Kim Swift is making a game, good or bad, it's going to share many characteristics with Portal. Since that's the case, sign me the hell up.
    I don't care if game is like Portal, or like Half-Life, or like Doom or like Mario, if it's not good. First and foremost, when I play a game, I want it to be, at some level, good, rest comes after that.

  • AprecheApreche
    Apsup said:

    Apreche said:

    Apsup said:

    Scott, do you remember the time when John Romero made you his bitch? Or Star Wars prequels?

    There are enough examples of person with good track record doing mediocre and even shitty things in the future, that just blindly trusting a name is a gamble. It's gamble with better odds than trusting some no-name, but still a gamble.

    Not everything someone makes is of equal quality. But everything someone makes carries their trademarks. Not every Tim Burton movie is fantastic, but they are all unmistakably Tim Burton's movies, even though so many people worked on them.

    If Kim Swift is making a game, good or bad, it's going to share many characteristics with Portal. Since that's the case, sign me the hell up.
    I don't care if game is like Portal, or like Half-Life, or like Doom or like Mario, if it's not good. First and foremost, when I play a game, I want it to be, at some level, good, rest comes after that.

    Well, considering Portal is one of the greatest game that ever existed, I think the world definitely would like to see more games like that. But if nobody Kickstarts, we won't get anything, good or bad. Someone's gotta lay the money down.
  • ApsupApsup
    Apreche said:

    Apsup said:

    Apreche said:

    Apsup said:

    Scott, do you remember the time when John Romero made you his bitch? Or Star Wars prequels?

    There are enough examples of person with good track record doing mediocre and even shitty things in the future, that just blindly trusting a name is a gamble. It's gamble with better odds than trusting some no-name, but still a gamble.

    Not everything someone makes is of equal quality. But everything someone makes carries their trademarks. Not every Tim Burton movie is fantastic, but they are all unmistakably Tim Burton's movies, even though so many people worked on them.

    If Kim Swift is making a game, good or bad, it's going to share many characteristics with Portal. Since that's the case, sign me the hell up.
    I don't care if game is like Portal, or like Half-Life, or like Doom or like Mario, if it's not good. First and foremost, when I play a game, I want it to be, at some level, good, rest comes after that.

    Well, considering Portal is one of the greatest game that ever existed, I think the world definitely would like to see more games like that. But if nobody Kickstarts, we won't get anything, good or bad. Someone's gotta lay the money down.
    Maybe, but it's still a gamble, and I remember that you haven at some occasion expressed some heavy anti-gamble statements.

  • MechanicalMindMechanicalMind
    Apreche said:

    Apsup said:

    Apreche said:

    Apsup said:

    Scott, do you remember the time when John Romero made you his bitch? Or Star Wars prequels?

    There are enough examples of person with good track record doing mediocre and even shitty things in the future, that just blindly trusting a name is a gamble. It's gamble with better odds than trusting some no-name, but still a gamble.

    Not everything someone makes is of equal quality. But everything someone makes carries their trademarks. Not every Tim Burton movie is fantastic, but they are all unmistakably Tim Burton's movies, even though so many people worked on them.

    If Kim Swift is making a game, good or bad, it's going to share many characteristics with Portal. Since that's the case, sign me the hell up.
    I don't care if game is like Portal, or like Half-Life, or like Doom or like Mario, if it's not good. First and foremost, when I play a game, I want it to be, at some level, good, rest comes after that.

    Well, considering Portal is one of the greatest game that ever existed, I think the world definitely would like to see more games like that. But if nobody Kickstarts, we won't get anything, good or bad. Someone's gotta lay the money down.
    I still think you attribute too much to Kim Swift, if it was anyone but Valve who made Portal I would agree. Playing Half Life, TF2, Left 4 Dead, you can see they have just as much effort as Portal did. Decoupled from Valve I think Kim Swift is just an average developer, Quantum Conundrums good parts were mostly just ripped straight from Portal. Why should we expect something as great as it without the rest of Valve's developers? So if she actually has something to show, then support her but I see no reason to give her money over any other developer on Kickstarter.
  • MattMatt
    So guys, the topic of "should I invest in so-and-so's game on Fig" seems to be a moot point. In order to invest, you must register as an accredited investor with he SEC, which means you earned $200k (or $300k as a couple) for both of the past two years, or have at least $1M net worth.

    Pretty close to 300 here when you add my wife in, but as a gov't employee my pay is basically what it's going to be for the rest of my life. I don't think I'll be Fig-elligible.
  • RymRym
    edited August 2015
    Matt said:

    So guys, the topic of "should I invest in so-and-so's game on Fig" seems to be a moot point. In order to invest, you must register as an accredited investor with he SEC, which means you earned $200k (or $300k as a couple) for both of the past two years, or have at least $1M net worth.

    From Fig:
    anyone with cash on hand will be able to get a piece of the action — no accreditation required. Their reward? A cut of the game's earnings upon release.
    Due to the JOBS act, there are legal ways for non-accredited investors to take part here. That specifically is what makes this a big deal.

    Basically an accredited investor will act as a new class - an intermediary - between the non-accredited investors and the game company. That's what Fig will offer. Normal people can sort of piggyback on the terms of the intermediary.
    Post edited by Rym on
  • MattMatt
    Weird, don't know how I missed that when browsing their site.
  • MattMatt
    edited August 2015
    OK, I missed that because it's not on their website anywhere.

    When you hit their site, you are taken directly to the one campaign currently running, and your eye is drawn to the banner stating "This round is closed with $50,000 of investment and $500,000 of expressed interest!" If you click to learn more, you are forced to choose: are you an accredited investor or not? If not, you just get shown the typical Kickstarter rewards. Zero mention of any follow-on profits for the regular backers.

    Reading some of the press coverage from their launch earlier this week, it looks like they might just not have that portion figured out yet. Kohler used some careful wording at Wired: "Once it becomes possible for non-accredited investors to get some skin in the game, fans might be able to chip in for a piece of the action, not just a box of tchotchkes."

    Edit: I'm curious to know if there was a non-accredited tier open prior to them hitting that $50k mark, which has now been taken down.
    Post edited by Matt on
  • RymRym
    I suspect they want accredited investors to sign up first, so that they have a pool of them to tap for the intermediary phase.
  • theknoxinatortheknoxinator
    MechanicalMind said:

    Apreche said:

    Apsup said:

    Apreche said:

    Apsup said:

    Scott, do you remember the time when John Romero made you his bitch? Or Star Wars prequels?

    There are enough examples of person with good track record doing mediocre and even shitty things in the future, that just blindly trusting a name is a gamble. It's gamble with better odds than trusting some no-name, but still a gamble.

    Not everything someone makes is of equal quality. But everything someone makes carries their trademarks. Not every Tim Burton movie is fantastic, but they are all unmistakably Tim Burton's movies, even though so many people worked on them.

    If Kim Swift is making a game, good or bad, it's going to share many characteristics with Portal. Since that's the case, sign me the hell up.
    I don't care if game is like Portal, or like Half-Life, or like Doom or like Mario, if it's not good. First and foremost, when I play a game, I want it to be, at some level, good, rest comes after that.

    Well, considering Portal is one of the greatest game that ever existed, I think the world definitely would like to see more games like that. But if nobody Kickstarts, we won't get anything, good or bad. Someone's gotta lay the money down.
    I still think you attribute too much to Kim Swift, if it was anyone but Valve who made Portal I would agree. Playing Half Life, TF2, Left 4 Dead, you can see they have just as much effort as Portal did. Decoupled from Valve I think Kim Swift is just an average developer, Quantum Conundrums good parts were mostly just ripped straight from Portal. Why should we expect something as great as it without the rest of Valve's developers? So if she actually has something to show, then support her but I see no reason to give her money over any other developer on Kickstarter.
    Part of me finds this whole conversation kind of weird. Kim Swift works at Amazon now. I would know, I see her in my building all the time. She doesn't need to Kickstart anything. She is getting full backing from our games org.

    I am interested to see how the stuff she's working on here turns out though. I think it will be what truly defines what she brings to the table, regardless of team.
  • RochelleRochelle
    The whole Kim Swift convo about how people shouldn't only credit her for Portal and mention ALL the other devs reminds me of something a GomerGater will say.
  • AprecheApreche
    Rochelle said:

    The whole Kim Swift convo about how people shouldn't only credit her for Portal and mention ALL the other devs reminds me of something a GomerGater will say.

    Yeah, pretty much.
  • MechanicalMindMechanicalMind
    Rochelle said:

    The whole Kim Swift convo about how people shouldn't only credit her for Portal and mention ALL the other devs reminds me of something a GomerGater will say.

    Oop. Time to retract all my comments.
  • Dazzle369Dazzle369


    https://blog.arduino.cc/2016/07/06/get-your-ddr-on-with-an-arduino-dance-pad/
  • RymRym
    edited July 2016
    That's a highly evolved version of the pad I made long ago.

    Instead of an Arduino, I cannibalized the circuit board from a PS1 controller.

    FWIW, that pad differs from the official arcade pad design: the real machines just use ribbon switches on the four edges of the arrow buttons.
    Post edited by Rym on
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