It's there, but not at the start, nor when I stopped playing after 140 minutes.There is nothing at the start that shows there can be any progress in the game at all. And at no point along the way did I have any indication of how many more hours I would have to play, nor any indication how many times I would have to play the game in total to get all the content.
Well there's a number of games, FPS or whatever, that don't exactly give much indication of progress left to go. But I do appreciate when it is there because plenty of times I wanna know just how much longer I have to go.
After re-reading this thread, I'm getting the feeling that my having said anything about multiple endings may have contributed to your frustration with the game, Luke, for which I apologize. If you hadn't been told that (or other subsequent pieces of information I brought up), you would maybe have been playing more on the game's own merits like you've been talking about, and thus would have been playing it more like a regular JRPG -- a type of game in which you often are NOT told exactly how far along you are. That's not usually a problem for JRPGs, though, because you can still at least watch your level increase. Your overall power level + some of the story beats end up still giving you some sense of how far along you might be, albeit a very fuzzy sense.
Since you were playing Undertale without knowing the possibility of full pacifism, you definitely would have seen your LV and stats increasing with all the battles you fought. Without knowing about the multiple endings, the increasing EXP and LV would maybe look more like marks of your progress towards (as far as you would know) THE ending. Knowledge of multiple endings, by contrast, lessens the impact of what those increasing numbers signify, since they don't indicate how much content lies beyond the point where the numbers stop increasing. At that point, yeah, if you don't find the right story beats in good time, you have no way to know how much more content to expect beyond seeking out more outside meta help on that front.
Having watched someone livestream Undertale the other night, more or less completely blind save for the stream chat helping out with some of the puzzle-y bits, it made me more aware of just how much spoilers (even general ones) really do affect the experience of playing Undertale. Not in the sense that they ruin the game necessarily, because even when you know what happens, you still get a very strong emotional impact from it by the end. But they do very much impact how you make decisions the first time through, and what you get out of the game along the way (be it pleasure or frustration). So again, I apologize if any spoilers I dropped, intentional or unintentional, caused you more frustration than you otherwise might have experienced.
That stream also made me realize, though, that despite the spoilers you've seen so far, I think you actually still haven't seen enough to diminish the initial impact of the game's later events. I know you said that you'd quit at this point, but now the cat's out of the bag and you know more or less exactly how much time it takes to beat the game. Putting aside the issue of whether relying on meta information to find that out makes the game weaker or not, I'd say it's worth giving another go now that you do know. From where you're at in Waterfall, beating the Neutral Route will only take a few more hours, and I'll say again that I think that's definitely worth doing. By the time you reach the ending, you will have seen enough to know if you want to put the effort into seeking out the Pacifist Ending or not. If you don't, then you don't. If you do, then at that point you'll have both the in-game knowledge and meta knowledge to indicate how to proceed from there.
No need to apologize. It's not your fault, nor the fault of any spoiler. It's simply the game's fault. Or not the game, but how it is a mismatch with what I want from games I play.
Here's how the game failed for me. I liked:
1. Following the fun characters. 2. A lot of the scripted humor. 3. The mini-game bullet hell damage avoidance. 4. The music.
What I didn't like: 1. Experimenting with different dialogue and actions inside the battles. 2. Most of the puzzles.
And that means for doing the things I enjoyed in the game, I was rewarded by other things I enjoyed being taken away from me.
The only way to keep some of the characters I liked around was to do things I didn't enjoy. After trying things I didn't enjoy long enough, I got bored of them, played how I enjoyed, and was rewarded by having characters I liked taken away from me.
As a game mechanic, punishing me for taking the "wrong" action just doesn't appeal to me! Well, it COULD appeal to me, in a game which only lasts two hours. Also, if the game still had some challenge, it would be more appealing.
I will play more of this, but only once I'm on a 6 week work trip that's coming up. At the moment, I don't really have a few more hours to set aside for any gaming.
Awww, this made me tear up with joy and a little sadness. Way too cute. (Spoilers for the Genocide Route)
There is also a really great English vocal version out there. And both versions are in fact covers of a cool Vocaloid song that I never knew existed. Thanks, internet!
That still isn't a hard "No." You could still do it just to spite the game for guilt tripping you into not doing it. Maybe you'll do it to be a sociopath. Maybe you want to see a heroic story from a different point of view.
Or maybe you won't, zip the game, then store copies of it so the memory won't die easily.
So far this is my favorite remix featuring Undertale & ______.
Also, I'm really looking forward to MAGFest, since I'll be joining an Undertale Cosplay Group on Saturday. That being said, I'll be curious to see how long Undertale sticks around as a "con" thing compared to other fandoms. Not everyone has played it after all. But I think in about a year, it'll go back to obscurity again so people can re-enter into the game without internet influence. (Unless they go digging for it again)
Comments
Since you were playing Undertale without knowing the possibility of full pacifism, you definitely would have seen your LV and stats increasing with all the battles you fought. Without knowing about the multiple endings, the increasing EXP and LV would maybe look more like marks of your progress towards (as far as you would know) THE ending. Knowledge of multiple endings, by contrast, lessens the impact of what those increasing numbers signify, since they don't indicate how much content lies beyond the point where the numbers stop increasing. At that point, yeah, if you don't find the right story beats in good time, you have no way to know how much more content to expect beyond seeking out more outside meta help on that front.
Having watched someone livestream Undertale the other night, more or less completely blind save for the stream chat helping out with some of the puzzle-y bits, it made me more aware of just how much spoilers (even general ones) really do affect the experience of playing Undertale. Not in the sense that they ruin the game necessarily, because even when you know what happens, you still get a very strong emotional impact from it by the end. But they do very much impact how you make decisions the first time through, and what you get out of the game along the way (be it pleasure or frustration). So again, I apologize if any spoilers I dropped, intentional or unintentional, caused you more frustration than you otherwise might have experienced.
That stream also made me realize, though, that despite the spoilers you've seen so far, I think you actually still haven't seen enough to diminish the initial impact of the game's later events. I know you said that you'd quit at this point, but now the cat's out of the bag and you know more or less exactly how much time it takes to beat the game. Putting aside the issue of whether relying on meta information to find that out makes the game weaker or not, I'd say it's worth giving another go now that you do know. From where you're at in Waterfall, beating the Neutral Route will only take a few more hours, and I'll say again that I think that's definitely worth doing. By the time you reach the ending, you will have seen enough to know if you want to put the effort into seeking out the Pacifist Ending or not. If you don't, then you don't. If you do, then at that point you'll have both the in-game knowledge and meta knowledge to indicate how to proceed from there.
Here's how the game failed for me. I liked:
1. Following the fun characters.
2. A lot of the scripted humor.
3. The mini-game bullet hell damage avoidance.
4. The music.
What I didn't like:
1. Experimenting with different dialogue and actions inside the battles.
2. Most of the puzzles.
And that means for doing the things I enjoyed in the game, I was rewarded by other things I enjoyed being taken away from me.
The only way to keep some of the characters I liked around was to do things I didn't enjoy. After trying things I didn't enjoy long enough, I got bored of them, played how I enjoyed, and was rewarded by having characters I liked taken away from me.
As a game mechanic, punishing me for taking the "wrong" action just doesn't appeal to me! Well, it COULD appeal to me, in a game which only lasts two hours. Also, if the game still had some challenge, it would be more appealing.
I will play more of this, but only once I'm on a 6 week work trip that's coming up. At the moment, I don't really have a few more hours to set aside for any gaming.
I also learned that Spear of Justice and Waterfall share a melody. I thought I knew about most of the leitmotifs, but that one had escaped me.
I love when people actually have to make this point.
Undertale 3D, because why not.
There is also a really great English vocal version out there. And both versions are in fact covers of a cool Vocaloid song that I never knew existed. Thanks, internet!
For those who are asking, I will not undo what I have done just to learn more of the tragedy that came before.
Maybe you'll do it to be a sociopath. Maybe you want to see a heroic story from a different point of view.
Or maybe you won't, zip the game, then store copies of it so the memory won't die easily.
Also, I'm really looking forward to MAGFest, since I'll be joining an Undertale Cosplay Group on Saturday. That being said, I'll be curious to see how long Undertale sticks around as a "con" thing compared to other fandoms. Not everyone has played it after all. But I think in about a year, it'll go back to obscurity again so people can re-enter into the game without internet influence. (Unless they go digging for it again)
That's adorable.
Forgot about Courage Wolf for a while there.
12 replays and counting...
There are just too many things.