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Homosexual animals
This has been all over Norwegian news for several weeks now, but has now also reached international news: The first ever exhibition of homosexuality among animals. The purpose of the exhibition is to refute the notion that homosexuality is unnatural.
I'm not posting this to make it easier for Rym and Scott to get out of the closet ;-), nor do I believe the intelligent users of this forum has such homophobic and uninformed beliefs. I think however not enough intelligent people know how utterly normal homosexuality is in the animal realm.
I am quite involved in this topic because my brother, Petter Bøckman, is one of the persons behind this exhibition. He has been on TV, radio and in newspapers a lot lately talking about this, and since we look a lot alike, I am from time to time confronted by strangers who has an opinion they need to express. So far I haven't run into the real nuts, and have only had interesting discussions.
Only a small percentage of our population are very religious, but there are enough of them that hilarious statements have reached news columns. One pastor has claimed my brother will burn in hell (he is very pleased to have made a stir), and another is very angry that tax money is being used on such "political propaganda". He thinks that money instead should be used on converting these perverted animals! :-D
I'm not posting this to make it easier for Rym and Scott to get out of the closet ;-), nor do I believe the intelligent users of this forum has such homophobic and uninformed beliefs. I think however not enough intelligent people know how utterly normal homosexuality is in the animal realm.
I am quite involved in this topic because my brother, Petter Bøckman, is one of the persons behind this exhibition. He has been on TV, radio and in newspapers a lot lately talking about this, and since we look a lot alike, I am from time to time confronted by strangers who has an opinion they need to express. So far I haven't run into the real nuts, and have only had interesting discussions.
Only a small percentage of our population are very religious, but there are enough of them that hilarious statements have reached news columns. One pastor has claimed my brother will burn in hell (he is very pleased to have made a stir), and another is very angry that tax money is being used on such "political propaganda". He thinks that money instead should be used on converting these perverted animals! :-D
Comments
That exhibition looks really interesting.
The pastor Jan Åge Torp is a high profiled religious leader who also thinks gay people should not be allowed to have powerful positions in society, because they are like cancer. What a sweet guy! ;-) He is mostly ridiculed in media.
This is probably the only zoology topic that is so politically potent that scientists until now have felt the need to tell whether they themselves are gay or not.
As for whether or not homosexuality is "unnatural," we have only to look at other HUMAN cultures for evidence. Across time and across the geographic span of the world, there exist/have existed peoples where sexual behaviors between two members of the same sex are considered normal. For example, the ancient Greeks practiced pederasty, the Sambia people of Papau New Guinea use fellatio as a ritual process to masculinize boys, and Native Americans allowed marriage (and still do, as far as I know, though this practice is becoming less common as Christianity becomes more of an influence on Native Americans) between berdaches/amazons/two-spirits and regular males and females. There are many, many, more examples. If sexual acts between members of the same sex was "unnatural," then all human cultures would regard it in the same way, but they do not; in the human species there is an incredible amount of variation in gender, gender ideologies, sexual practices, and even what people find to be erotic. Of course, the Church crazies don't want you to know this.
That being said, I like the message of this exhibit. Kudos to your brother, Navelfluff
Anyway, it is very possible to trick the body of a sexual being into thinking it is engaging in the reproductive act when it is not. This results in good feelings. An animal is going to do whatever it can to have those good feelings, whether it results in reproduction or not, e.g: dogs humping human legs. Sometimes an animal will get off via a member of the same species and sex. I really don't see anything unexpected or unnatural about it when viewed from this perspective. Considering the variety of other things that sexual creatures will do to get off, doing it with a member of the same sex and species is far from strange.
Let's face it, if you subscribe to the theory of evolution, there has to be some explanation for homosexuality. To save me some research, does anyone know how Darwinists explain homosexuality?
This is one area that there really is no middle ground. Animals sure like their Homosexual sex!
Also, it should be reiterated that BONOBOS ARE AWESOME.
First of all, homosexuals do get children and pass on their genes. It happens all the time, especially in strict religious communities where gays are forced into heterosexual marriages.
To my knowledge there has not been any research on other animals than humans to find a correlation between homosexuality and specific genes. After quite thorough studies they have so far not found any "gay gene". This means that a diverging sexual orientation probably develops during pregnancy because of hormonal imbalance. Everyone has the genes that under certain circumstances would have made them homosexual. Therefore there is very little selective pressure against it.
If homosexuality was directly harmful to the success of the species, it would be eradicated over time. Indeed some animals are strictly heterosexual (as far as we can tell). I'll try to explain why homosexuality is not harmful to many species:
Homosexuality is most common with social species like ourselves. We have instincts that make us help our relatives or social group with raising their kids, and that can sometimes make us put ourselves in mortal peril to defend those close to us. By saving my sibling's child I save an individual that carry 1/4 of my own genes. That is beneficial to my genes even if I die myself. People without kids of their own are a resource to their relatives, helping them grow up and prosper, thus giving a diluted version of their own genes a step ahead in the genetic competition. In that way gays without children are indirectly passing on their genes through others. It can be beneficial to a species to have some individuals that don't get children. Homosexuality is one of several possible strategies to achieve that. Bonobos are indeed some of the coolest animals on this planet (from a human point of view). Unfortunately, they may be gone very soon. They have been threatened by extinction for a long time, but recently guerrilla groups started hunting these peaceful, lovemaking animals for food. It is very sad.
As for the exhibition, they have thought of making a smaller ambulating version to go around Norway and maybe the other Nordic countries. I don't think it will go abroad for three years or so, if ever. It's probably a better idea for museums in other countries to make their own versions instead of waiting for this one.
Damn you Navelfluff for pointing out the "gay uncle" hypothesis nine minutes before I could! Damn yooouuuu!
Anyway, yes, hope the display goes down well over there!
It's a good podcast.
But anyway, gay animals may be making a stir in your home town in the not so distant future. :-)
Whatever. In the end it'll probably just be more publicity, which will definitely be good for this whole fiasco.
I don't know what the plans are for the US, and how they plan to deal with religious nut-heads. It's obvious that they need help from local institutions to handle PR, controversies, politics and such. Two zoologists from from Norway can't cope with all that.
The only thing I consider "unnatural" is that a guy would enjoy having a dick shoved up his ass. I have no doubt he would enjoy sticking it into any soft warm hole he can find I just can't see how the other person would enjoy it. Then again it might explain the placement and sensitivity of the prostrate gland. Woman don't have one so they enjoy anal sex much less than men do.
I don't much care what you (or animals) do sexually I just don't want it shoved in my face and told it's normal (normal as in everyone does it).
On further reflection it is not the homosexuals that are the hated group. I have several homosexual friends and the one thing we all seem to agree on is that it is the bisexuals that are ruining it for everyone! You just can't trust them. They might hook up with ANYONE!!!
If someone is homosexual and they leave you for a member of the sex you are not a part of you can just shrug it off as being their fault. When a bisexual leaves you for a member of the sex you are not a part of then that is a slap in the face!