I don't know why, but both Rym and Scott share this nostalgic attitude about games, where if a title even slightly resembles an older game, they just pronounce the original better
GoldenEye isn't better by any stretch. It had levels that barely surpassed Doom in terms of complexity or layout.
Halo is just not better enough. It made almost zero innovation in the FPS genre and did nothing that hadn't been done before. By the time Halo came out for the Xbox in North America, Half-life mods and Tribes/Tribes 2, not to mention countless other games, already had evolved vehicle combat mechanics.
Halo is a great game if you haven't played many PC FPSs. To someone who has, it's nothing special. To someone who has never played a deathmatch in any form before, it's amazing. For a great many of the people who love Halo, it was their first FPS.
I considered GoldenEye to be crap compared to PC FPSs even back then; my like of it comes only from the fact that it was the only decent console FPS that existed at the time. I never played it if I had access to a PC. In fact, the only people I ever played it with were my friends who didn't have computers or cable modems and couldn't play online.
The "better" games are for the PC. PC FPSs had most of the things that people claim are "great" about Halo almost a decade ago, and then some. All we're saying is that in general, many the people who really like Halo games haven't played many computer FPSs.
As for the whole nostalgia thing, don't forget that 99% of old games are utter crap. Most NES, SNES, N64, Atari, whatever games are unplayable garbage. The few games that we still talk about today are great, partly in that they have repeatedly stood the test of time. 10 years from now, 1% of today's games will stand a similar test, and the rest will be forgotten.
Just to back Rym up with a little more evidence. I used to think Halo was just the game punk kids played and that older people knew was crap. I realized I was wrong when my brother told me Halo sucked. He inherited Counter-Strike from me and is also a Goldeneye god, therefore he doesn't like Halo at all. His friends who are way into Halo never played the fpses he likes. Anecdotal evidence yes, but still true.
Also, look at games like Unreal Tournament or Battlefield XXXX. Their vehicles are far more advanced than Halo 2 can hope to be. Look at anything in HL2 or other source engine games. Look at some of the dynamic infestation stuff that's going to be in Natural Selection 2. The PC has always been way ahead of the console in FPS technology. When Goldeneye came out, it was just as far behind the curve as Halo is now. The difference was that it had multi-player when few people had cable modems and LAN parties. Nowadays everyone has DSL or a Cable modem, they use them for Halo on XBox Live. They could be playing much better FPSes on their PC without a monthly fee.
When it comes to playing FPSes with a bunch of friends over in the living room, Halo and Goldeneye are the champions. When it comes to playing online alone in your home, they both suck. Goldeneye gets a pass because it didn't attempt to be an online deathmatch fps. It only tries to be what it is, a party fps that can only handle four players. Halo has the balls to pretend it can compare with other modern fpses by offering online play with XBox Live. In that respect, it sucks.
Just to be clear, we're only talking about multi-player, not single-player. When it comes to single-player FPSes, nothing compares to Half-Life 1 and 2.
I absolutely agree. Valve games like Half-Life and Counterstrike are much better than Halo. However, that does not mean that it's a crap game. Personally, I don't think you've played enough Halo. If you've ever been on live, you'll know it's probably the best console FPS.
Of course PC shooters are better. They've always had better visuals and usually a more enjoyable multiplayer. But you guys have said it yourselves, that PC games are dying and I'm getting tired of playing the same old cs: source. If you're really worried about games like HL2, they're coming to the 360 next year.
I'm really getting tired of PC gaming. It's slow, expensive, and out of date. People put too much time and money into gaming anyway. Why should they have to upgrade their video card every year, or every 6 months. Everybody knows consoles are going to win because they're easy to set up and they're more affordable. No installing, no upgrades, no buying more systems so you can play with more people. Consoles give it all to you right there. And now when I look at how beautiful console games are looking, it's hard to go back to a gaming machine.
I'm gonna have to go with Dark Castle for the Atari. Just because you could play it for hours, and I love thinking about what the neighbors must think when we screamed "Ahhh, black guy! Black guy! Kill it!"
We didn't know what all the enemies were, so we tended to categorize them by color. XD
Does anyone else remember the old NES Wrestling game?
If you got dropped out of the ring sometimes a chair would be outside and if you grabbed it your opponent could not get back in the ring until after you nailed him with it!
That games was good but I remember some sort of thing where the computer used to cheat...
I have a hard time keeping track of my games, so this list might be a bit off.
Otherwise, here's my top ten: 1. Soul Calubur 2 2. Pokemon Red Version 3. Tales of Symphonia 4. Fire Emblem 7 (Just Fire Emblem in the US) 5. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 6. Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne (specifically custom games on multiplayer) 7. Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando 8. Final Fantasy (the original) 9. Kingdom Hearts 10. Kingdom Hearts 2
If you've ever been on live, you'll know it's probably the best console FPS.
I think we could argue that as well but it isn't the point. I love computer FPSs but I have a hell of a time getting twelve of my friends to LAN every week. Once Halo came out, however, it was a piece of cake. For this and no other reason, I played Halo: decent FPS goodness in a package that got people in a room and playing. For some strange reason people would bring TVs and XBOXs to someones house, but not computers.
Those were the college days though. Now that we're graduated and have money it's back to computers. No one plays Halo. I provide computers for my friends who don't have laptops (and peripherals to those that do) so they don't have excuses. Halo is the FPS of the masses . . . you don't have to be one of the masses.
Comments
Halo is just not better enough. It made almost zero innovation in the FPS genre and did nothing that hadn't been done before. By the time Halo came out for the Xbox in North America, Half-life mods and Tribes/Tribes 2, not to mention countless other games, already had evolved vehicle combat mechanics.
Halo is a great game if you haven't played many PC FPSs. To someone who has, it's nothing special. To someone who has never played a deathmatch in any form before, it's amazing. For a great many of the people who love Halo, it was their first FPS.
I considered GoldenEye to be crap compared to PC FPSs even back then; my like of it comes only from the fact that it was the only decent console FPS that existed at the time. I never played it if I had access to a PC. In fact, the only people I ever played it with were my friends who didn't have computers or cable modems and couldn't play online.
The "better" games are for the PC. PC FPSs had most of the things that people claim are "great" about Halo almost a decade ago, and then some. All we're saying is that in general, many the people who really like Halo games haven't played many computer FPSs.
As for the whole nostalgia thing, don't forget that 99% of old games are utter crap. Most NES, SNES, N64, Atari, whatever games are unplayable garbage. The few games that we still talk about today are great, partly in that they have repeatedly stood the test of time. 10 years from now, 1% of today's games will stand a similar test, and the rest will be forgotten.
Also, look at games like Unreal Tournament or Battlefield XXXX. Their vehicles are far more advanced than Halo 2 can hope to be. Look at anything in HL2 or other source engine games. Look at some of the dynamic infestation stuff that's going to be in Natural Selection 2. The PC has always been way ahead of the console in FPS technology. When Goldeneye came out, it was just as far behind the curve as Halo is now. The difference was that it had multi-player when few people had cable modems and LAN parties. Nowadays everyone has DSL or a Cable modem, they use them for Halo on XBox Live. They could be playing much better FPSes on their PC without a monthly fee.
When it comes to playing FPSes with a bunch of friends over in the living room, Halo and Goldeneye are the champions. When it comes to playing online alone in your home, they both suck. Goldeneye gets a pass because it didn't attempt to be an online deathmatch fps. It only tries to be what it is, a party fps that can only handle four players. Halo has the balls to pretend it can compare with other modern fpses by offering online play with XBox Live. In that respect, it sucks.
Just to be clear, we're only talking about multi-player, not single-player. When it comes to single-player FPSes, nothing compares to Half-Life 1 and 2.
Of course PC shooters are better. They've always had better visuals and usually a more enjoyable multiplayer. But you guys have said it yourselves, that PC games are dying and I'm getting tired of playing the same old cs: source. If you're really worried about games like HL2, they're coming to the 360 next year.
I'm really getting tired of PC gaming. It's slow, expensive, and out of date. People put too much time and money into gaming anyway. Why should they have to upgrade their video card every year, or every 6 months. Everybody knows consoles are going to win because they're easy to set up and they're more affordable. No installing, no upgrades, no buying more systems so you can play with more people. Consoles give it all to you right there. And now when I look at how beautiful console games are looking, it's hard to go back to a gaming machine.
We didn't know what all the enemies were, so we tended to categorize them by color. XD
Football Manager
Counterstrike source
If you got dropped out of the ring sometimes a chair would be outside and if you grabbed it your opponent could not get back in the ring until after you nailed him with it!
That games was good but I remember some sort of thing where the computer used to cheat...
Otherwise, here's my top ten:
1. Soul Calubur 2
2. Pokemon Red Version
3. Tales of Symphonia
4. Fire Emblem 7 (Just Fire Emblem in the US)
5. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
6. Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne (specifically custom games on multiplayer)
7. Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando
8. Final Fantasy (the original)
9. Kingdom Hearts
10. Kingdom Hearts 2
Honorable Mentions:
- Advance Wars
- Pikmin
- Phoenix Wright
Shadow of Colossus
Megaman X
Resident Evil
Half-Life
Max Payne 2
Half Life 2
Halo
Civilization 4
Twisted Metal World Tour
Those were the college days though. Now that we're graduated and have money it's back to computers. No one plays Halo. I provide computers for my friends who don't have laptops (and peripherals to those that do) so they don't have excuses. Halo is the FPS of the masses . . . you don't have to be one of the masses.