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Episode 61 - An argument between Scotts

edited February 2006 in GeekNights
Wow, we talked about a ton of stuff in this episode. And that's with only ONE day off. Imagine what will happen when we take two days, or even a week, off and build up a back-buffer of talk. Holy crap.

Anyway. If you've got something to say about any of the topics in this episode. Here is the place to say it. I'm especially looking for name pronunciation.

Apreche

Comments

  • Rhymes with creche.
  • edited February 2006
    I always figured it was ah-PREE-chee
    Post edited by trogdor9 on
  • I have the same problem with my online name ^_^

    Anyhow, Curling is awesome, I've heard nothing about it but when I was at Katsucon I turned on the tv and was fasinated by woman's curling. Now, I'm super interested in the sport. So I guess that just shows maybe people realized hey this is a pretty cool thing. I think the major draw is it looks like a sport that you could actually get good at without being a world class player.. and it's sorta like Chess on ice ^_^ (in a werid way)
  • Wow.. Cremlian, did you listen to last night's show yet? You kind of proved my point, especially with the "chess on ice" comment ;^)
  • OMG. I bet you play sudoku. It's the exact same thing. It's a puzzle that any idiot can solve any number of times just by following a simple process. But it takes a certain amount of time to figure out no matter how smart you are. It makes stupid people feel smart when in fact I could write a very simple computer program to solve every Sudoku ever.

    And now, you are saying that the same PR that made sudoku popular has tricked you into being interested in curling. I guess that just shows everyone where your will power and susceptability to advertising is. But not only that, you are interested in it for the SAME REASON that people are interest in sudoku, because it makes people with low intelligence/skill feel like they can do something. It's not cool or amazing to throw a rock on ice. It's even less to be the broom guy.

    You know what, forget what I just said. You know what the latest trend is? Everybody is getting into it. It's called giving money to me. Anyone can do it and it makes you feel really smart. Not only that, but it's popular and anyone can do it! Expect to see bank deposit envelopes and how-to guides in grocery stores next week.
  • ummm.. did you read the part about not seeing it anywhere... Other then actually seeing the event? I mean that's like if you saw a fencing match and got interested in Fencing because of it. That's not PR or anything. That's called being interested in a sport or game. The Chess on Ice came from me looking at how the game was played not from some advertising! You guys didn't bother reading what I said did you. I'm not interested enough to buy how-to guides and stuff but interested enough to check it out next time I come across it on TV.

    Wow guys way to be assholes. (in the nicest sense of the word) Maybe Curling is getting popular because it's an underrated event that is finally getting some action. Sorta like how Anime flew under the radar for so many years.

    I'll say this again because I don't think I was clear, I saw the event on TV. Found it interesting and intriguing and I'd watch more. I didn't see an Ad or hear people talking about it. I didn't even know what I was watching till they actually paused for a break. After watching for 15 minutes I found I enjoyed the experience.. Not because of some Hype machine. It's in fact funny because I noticed all the Hype after I got home from the convention and saw there was people getting into it. :-p
  • edited February 2006
    You saw the event on TV. Why do you think that curling, something nobody gives a shit about, is on TV? The event itself is the advertisement. Go back and listen to our podcast about shaving. We found out about classic shaving via a newspaper article, not an advertisement. But you will clearly hear me talk about how I highly suspected, and still suspect, the author of said article of being a shill.

    This is the nature of modern public relations. The non-ads are ads. Look at MTV. The non-ads of MTV are music videos. Look at Transformers or M.A.S.K. The content is the ad. The whole thing is the ad, not just the commercials. This is mostly why I don't watch TV anymore.

    You might think that Curling is interesting regardless. Guess what. If you do it right you can make anything interesting. These same TV producers make NASCAR and poker interesting. Watch ESPN2 sometime and you'll see people attempting to make cheerleading interesting. It's the power of the modern PR machine. You are totally pwn3d by it.

    I really think that these PR wizards have perfected their craft over the past 10 years or so. Now they realize they can sell absolutely anything to everybody. It's like they're playing a game to see who can sell the most outrageous shit. One guy sells NASCAR, another sells poker, another sells war in the middle east, another sells a fad diet, another sells curling, what's next? I forsee a resurgence in the popularity of tiddlywinks.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Yea, I’m not arguing that it’s not PR and Hype. I’m arguing that there is nothing wrong with checking something out and finding it interesting. I’m also saying I found Curling not by hearing “water cooler” talk or a special report on Curling but actually just seeing it played on TV. I didn’t see an ad saying “Go check out Curling it’s the awesome”. They didn’t sell me a curling set or a car by me watching Curling, I just was fascinated by how the game was played. I’m annoyed because you said I’d fall for the hype of anything regardless of it’s quality or content. That’s like saying yea I saw this Ad that said Cowboy bebop is awesome. Well I’m not going to listen to that ad it’s all just hype. And then when your friend comes by and says “Hey I just saw Cowboy bebop and it’s the awesome” You say to them, well your just controlled by the Hype I’m not listening to you. Which I found offensive. Sometimes things that are hyped are actually cool. Take your interest in Hockey, Personally I’m not much of a fan of Hockey, but just because I know there is a ad campagion to promote hockey doesn’t mean you’re a fan of Hockey because of the PR machine or the camera angles that make it more interesting. You might have been introduced to Hockey via marketing but you continue to watch because it’s interesting.

    Again all I’m saying is I saw Curling, I found it entertaining. Screw you. If you don’t like it that’s fine. We have different tastes. Doesn’t mean I’m going to play the stupid puzzle system.

    And another thing. Mask toys rocked. The show sucked.. Not so good at the marketing I guess. But the quality of the toys won out at the end.
  • edited February 2006
    OMG. Read my post again. The sport being played on TV is the advertisement itself. I'm not saying it's bad to enjoy different things. I'm saying that being easily manipulated is bad. And it's also bad to not recognize when you are being manipulated. The shaving guy got me, but at least I recognized he was trying to get me.

    Have you been paying attention to the PR firms trying to plant shills in forums online? How about the people who go to bars and have loud conversations with each other about great products? Or the doorman who stands there with a bunch of empty Amazon boxes on the sidewalk. You have to be able to recognize this stuff. Perhaps I should lend you my copy of Coercion.

    At least watch these two episodes of Frontline. They're free to watch online.

    The Persuaders
    The Merchants of Cool
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Did you read what I said? we are arguing two different points.. I'm fully versed and Highly aware of PR firms and Hype and all the manuplations. (believe me I was apart of the viral marketing of Serenity) The problem I had was that you seemed to make the assumption that if you like something that is hyped that your automaticly going to fall for something else that is hyped. That's all.. Your treating me like I don't know what Hype is. I've studied this subject as well. I'm just saying Curling looks FUN.

    You started this argument because you said the following two things.

    Note this.

    "OMG. I bet you play sudoku. It's the exact same thing. It's a puzzle that any idiot can solve any number of times just by following a simple process. But it takes a certain amount of time to figure out no matter how smart you are. It makes stupid people feel smart when in fact I could write a very simple computer program to solve every Sudoku ever. "

    and this.

    "You know what, forget what I just said. You know what the latest trend is? Everybody is getting into it. It's called giving money to me. Anyone can do it and it makes you feel really smart. Not only that, but it's popular and anyone can do it! Expect to see bank deposit envelopes and how-to guides in grocery stores next week."


    And from me note this statement.

    "I’m not arguing that it’s not PR and Hype. I’m arguing that there is nothing wrong with checking something out and finding it interesting. "


    You proved my point when you talked about shaving.
  • edited February 2006
    I'll bet if we went to a curling competition and you hadn't seen it on TV beforehand you would be bored off your ass. It was the presentation of the sport of curling that was required to make it interesting to you.

    If you disagree then please explain to me what exactly makes curling exciting? If you can't manage that, then explain what makes it more exciting than say, bowling or shuffleboard.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • All right kids, settle down ^_~

    Scott's argument that curling sucks is just silly and not relevant. There's no objective measure of what's exciting and what isn't, and people are allowed to like different things.

    You're both missing the point ;^)

    The point of my mention of curling was simply a note of how the media are trying to create an interest where there was none before. Cemlian called it "chess on ice," which is exactly what the reporters called it on TV at Katsucon.

    Now, I've curled before, and I grew up in a place where curling, while not terribly popular, was fairly well known. It is in no way similar to chess. Calling it "chess on ice" sounds incredibly silly. If anything, it's more like shuffleboard or bocce. The fact that you called it "chess on ice" here in the forum, just like the people on TV did, spoke volumes of the origin of your interest in curling.

    Now, gaining a new interest in this way isn't bad as Scott seems to be implying. Just be aware of the market forces that, in my opinion, are trying to create an interest in curling for financial gain.
  • Ok, Lets go through the reasons why Curling is interesting to me.

    Two teams are attempting to score points by getting a big puck like thing (forgive me I’m not up with the terms of this sport) as close to the center as possible. Now if it was just that, it would be a lot like bowling, but the fact that after you try and score, the other team has to form a plan as to whether they attempt to knock your piece off the board and prevent you from scoring or try and get there piece in a scoring position as well. (Doing both is the best of course) So there is a lot to consider and get right how much pressure needs to be applied, using the other players to sweep in front of the piece to move it as it is needed, there is teamwork as each member has to adequately figure out how much to speed it up and direct it. There is strategy in trying to block with other pieces to protect the pieces that are in good positions.

    As to why it’s different then Shuffleboard, it’s played as a team, in Shuffleboard, once you shot it it’s pretty much up to your skill, in Curling, there are two teammates (and maybe yourself if you didn’t do such a great one) attempting to perfect your shot.

    It’s also, an odd visual and auditory experience since the teams yell at each other and two members have to sweep in front of it which is just interesting to see.

    And this is just after watching 15 minutes of it. Who’s to say it just doesn’t click with me, maybe I should have been exposed to Curling earlier in my life I’d have become an Olympic Curler? I find it funny that I have to justify liking something when we as geeks, like all sorts of weird things and have all sorts of guilty pleasures. Then again I also like Shuffleboard and Bowling, However I don’t watch them, I have in fact I occasionally play them for fun. Curling may be a more compelling to watch sport then those two because of the team dynamics.

    Or maybe I was watching Woman’s curling and the girls were cute? ^_^
  • I can't wait for shills to try to sell something on this forum.
  • Gods.. You two argued right past me. Don't you have work to be doing?
  • Yeah, I actually do have work to be doing today. What's up with you people clicking the submit button while I'm typing?
  • RymRym
    edited February 2006
    image
    Post edited by Rym on
  • Chess on ice was a bad analogy. I actually heard that one from a guy at my Envoirnmental advisory board meeting last night. Don't remember it being said on the TV, but with the hypontic effect of the TV who knows.

    Regardless I had been watching Curling alot longer then by the time you got to it when you got out of the shower...

    Team Shuffleboard would be the best analogy ^_^

    Anyhow, I concede to Rym's points.

    Yea, Scott can't be judged by tastes.. he doesn't like FIrefly...

    However neither can I because I enjoyed House of the dead.. (as a bad movie)
  • You posted after started to post so I didn't see it.
  • yea better get back to work.
  • You should change the topic of this post to .. Scott and Scott Argue past each other.
  • Wow.

    Just...wow.

    I'd argue against a couple of Apreche's sillier points, but Cremlian loses a hojillion points for liking curling, and also watching a non-F1 sporting event on television.

    I would contend that a televised sporting event is no more of an ad for said sport than a live game of said sport is. If you follow that logic, doing anything in sight of anyone is an ad for that thing.

    However, it is true that the media is trying to generate excitement in curling by giving it coverage similar to that they would give to football or baseball. I don't really see anything wrong with that; I mean, at the very least, it gets some other sport on TV for people, and I'm sure there are some die-hard curling fans out there eager to see their sport being televised.
  • but Cremlian loses a hojillion points for liking curling, and also watching a non-F1 sporting event on television.

    Make that a non-F1 non-Ice Hockey sporting event.
  • you shouldn't be watching F1 either.. Just the highlights of the crashes ^_^. Hockey is the same as well. Stop watching the game just the fights... :-p
  • I actually was interested by the Olympic curling shown on TV. I found it to be interesting to contemplate which action is better suited for the situation, that of creating a defensive position with a stone or to use it to eliminate the opponent's own position.
    And rather than "chess on ice", I think an appropriate analogy would be bocce, as Rym mentioned, or a form of team billiards.

    And if fights are more your thing...how about you come down to my dojo, and we can fight as much as you like. The dojo has a spare suit of armor or two, and I've got more than enough shinais for everyone. Or, if you want a more visceral experience, we can do it without armor. And if you like, we can play by Kyushu rules.
    The dojo has a first aid kit, so no worries.
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