GeekNights 070123 - BattleLore

Kilarney

Tonight on GeekNights, we recall our experiences with the new hit game BattleLore. In the news, Valve announces new Half-Life boxes, and some kids figure out Guitar Hero hacks.

Scott’s Thing - Get a First Life
Rym’s Thing - Конфликт

Jason

My favorite part of First Life was the sidebar that read "Work, reproduce, perish." It was only missing a fourth tickmark that said "suffer."

Kilarney

I haven't listened to the podcast... so my apologies if any of this was covered.

I just recently bought Memoir '44, but have yet to break open the shrink wrap. I am, however, very excited to try Richard Borg's system.

I have two MAJOR concerns with BattleLore that will prevent me from buying it:
1) The theme. I don't know why, but the theme turns me off. I normally love this sort of theme. I think the problem I have is that I prefer a World War II theme more. Therefore, BattleLore will always have a less desirable theme than Memoir '44, which is similar in every way except theme.
2) Expansions. Call me a pessimist, but I see BattleLore as being a cash cow for Days of Wonder because of expansions. I see the base system as merely a lure to get people to purchase expansion after expansion. Sure, you don't need to buy expansions... but I know I would want them. I'm also really turned off by how some expansions are collectible, such as the Hill Giant. This takes the worst aspect of a CCG, and applies it to a board game. Count me out.
Sure... Memoir '44 has expansions. But... they aren't collectible, and I think they've run their course. (The carrying case is a good clue.) I actually think that Days of Wonder is going to stop creating new material for Memoir '44, and is going to shift all of their attention to BattleLore.

Apreche

Just to add one more thing. Whereas BattleLore was teh new hotness, it seems like Tide of Iron is teh new new hotness.

Kilarney

Everybody at BGG is going nuts over the Hannibal reprint.

HungryJoe

I, for one, REALLY miss the Cold War. You could live with M.A.D. without too much worry. Both parties had too much to lose.

Also, everyone smoked. I'm not sure that's connected, but I remember most everyone I knew smoked. I can remember when you could smoke on an airplane. Now no one smokes and the world is cheaper for it. Maybe Obama will bring it back. . .

Andrew

Maybe Obama will bring it back. . .

That made me lawl

Rym

Now no one smokes and the world is cheaper for it.

Frankly, I'm rather happy with the smoking bans in New York and New Jersey.

Kilarney

Frankly, I'm rather happy with the smoking bans in New York and New Jersey.

This from a libertarian?

I like the bans. You forget how nice they are until you travel somewhere without the laws. Japan and China were pretty tough. Thailand was easier, since so much was "open air."

Andrew

This from a libertarian?

I like the bans. You forget how nice they are until you travel somewhere without the laws. Japan was pretty tough.

While people have the right to smoke, second hand smoke has been shown to be harmful to others. Smoke on your own goddamn lawn.

Kilarney

While people have the right to smoke, second hand smoke has been shown to be harmful to others.

I don't see how a libertarian could extend this logic to a private bar or restaurant. Shouldn't it be up to the owner to decide what's good for his business? And if you get sick from going into such a place... whose fault is that?

Again... as a non-smoker I'm not complaining. I'm just saying that it is a little hypocritical when it comes to libertarianism.

HMTKSteve

I agree with kilarney. If you want to frequent an establishment that allows smoking that is up to you, same with working at one.

Kilarney

same with working at one.

Hmm... I've got a tougher time with that one.

I do have some sympathy for banning smoking in restaurants to protect the workers.

Rym

Again, lower-case "L" libertarian. I generally believe that government should, in the absence of strong reasons to the contrary, and all other factors being relatively equal, lean toward the side of liberty, freedom, and personal responsibility. Think of it as a +5 to liberty on any given roll.

Clearly, such a government can and should swing the other way so long as the rationale is justifiable and the lost freedom returns a boon of worthwhile value. You'd better get your money's worth for a freedom you relinquish, and a freedom should never be taken away without long and careful deliberation.

Banning murder is fine, as the loss of the freedom to murder is clearly mitigated by the gain of having a way to prevent or punish murder, resulting in fewer murders. Removing the freedom to steal returns a society where, by and large, things are not stolen, which allows a real economy to exist.

In my opinion, banning smoking in open-to-the-public indoor places has a great many boons that far outweigh the negative aspects of the individual lost freedom. While I would rather there have been an exception for smoking lounges which have no paid employees or entirely HVAC-segregated sections of businesses barred to staff entry, I'm content with the bans as-is.

(And god damn will I -never- hit a bar in a smoking state again...)

HMTKSteve

If smoking is not harmful enough to ban everywhere than it should not be harmful enough to ban at "some" places.

Before someone says, "well, what about gas stations?" Open flames are banned at gas stations, smoking falls under that umbrella.

I could care less if tobacco were outlawed. According to all the news I hear about it nothing good comes from smoking... well expect the taxes that fill the government coffers...

Apreche

Your right to swing your fist ends at my face. Second hand smoke is a metaphorical fist. Even if you can prove scientifically that it causes no harm, it still smells bad and makes me cough. That's enough. If you are smoking something that does not produce smoke, good for you. I have no problem with people smoking. They should just not be allowed to smoke anywhere that their secondhand smoke can possibly be breathed by anyone who doesn't want it.

I should also be allowed to charge people with assault if they get their smoke on me. I view it as no different than walking around spraying a can of RAID or other poison gas. I'll use one of Rym's favorite lines. If it's OK for people to smoke on the street, then it's OK for me to walk around burning my sticks of sulfur and setting off stink bombs. It's also fine for me to carry around skunk spray and spritz it on everybody.

HungryJoe

Your right to swing your fist ends at my face. Second hand smoke is a metaphorical fist. Even if you can prove scientifically that it causes no harm, it still smells bad and makes me cough. That's enough. If you are smoking something that does not produce smoke, good for you. I have no problem with people smoking. They should just not be allowed to smoke anywhere that their secondhand smoke can possibly be breathed by anyone who doesn't want it.

I should also be allowed to charge people with assault if they get their smoke on me. I view it as no different than walking around spraying a can of RAID or other poison gas. I'll use one of Rym's favorite lines. If it's OK for people to smoke on the street, then it's OK for me to walk around burning my sticks of sulfur and setting off stink bombs. It's also fine for me to carry around skunk spray and spritz it on everybody.

Guess it's just what you're used to. Everyone in my family smoked and used all types of tobacco products. My dad actually raised tobacco as a side business for many years. Now that could get nasty. Second hand smoke has nothing on that dry tobacco dust that can start flying around when you're stripping tobacco. And the gum that gets all over everything? Totally nasty.

So I associate the tobacco smell with happy times in childhood. I just think it's pleasant. Or it can be.

Before we moved here I smoked a pipe. When I played video games in my "den" in the basement I could get to smoking like a chimney. Since we moved, we've been living in a crappy one-bedroom. My wife thinks pipe smoke is too heavy even though she smokes cigarettes, so I quit. Haven't smoked since. Pipes are like that. You don't get as hooked since the smoke doesn't get into your lungs as much.

Apreche

I agree, kind of. My grandpa used to smoke a pipe once every night before he quit. As a kid I remember it smelling good unlike cigarette smoke which is poison. Even so, the pleasantness of the odor is subjective. Even if someone likes eau de pew, it doesn't mean it is permissible to go spraying it around town. This is why when you walk in the department store those people have to ask before spraying their perfume on you. I don't mind if everyone in the world smoked their brains out as long as I never get a whiff of it.

HMTKSteve

I can't even walk near the perfume department without gagging and having my eyes water...

HungryJoe

Even so, the pleasantness of the odor is subjective.

Yes. I like the smell and think it looks cool. I also kinda like the smell of stale beer. If you don't like it, fine. You have the better side of the argument that it shouldn't be allowed in public. I'm just saying I miss it. Then again, I miss Sammy Davis Jr.

phoenix116

I believe the old game Rym was referring to was Battle Masters. In college we had two sets that we put together to form one large map, so we had double the fighting ground and double the armies. It was fun at the time, but I'm not sure I'd enjoy it now.