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GOP Science - Dinasour Flatulence and Global Warming

edited February 2007 in Everything Else
First tubes and the Internet and now this:

"During the hearing, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) — one of the 87 percent of congressional Republicans who do not believe in man-made global warming — questioned the authors of the report about a period of dramatic climate change that occured 55 million years ago. “We don’t know what those other cycles were caused by in the past. Could be dinosaur flatulence, you know, or who knows?’"

Full story and C-SPAN video of the congressman's comments: http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/10/dino-flatulence/
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Comments

  • edited February 2007
    I watched "An Inconvenient Truth" in my Science class recently. The man proved very well that the earth was indeed heating up. But what he didn't prove in the slightest was that humans were the cause. First full-fill the burden of proof that we really are making our earth heat up, and then I'll start conserving my CO2.
    Post edited by Sail on
  • Stupid question: What does GOP stand for?
  • edited February 2007
    Stupid question: What does GOP stand for?
    It stands for Grand Old Party; it just means that same thing as Republican Party.
    Post edited by Rym on
  • Stupid question: What does GOP stand for?
    It stands for Grand Old Party; it just means that same thing as Republican Party.
    Oh...thanks.
  • OK, I'm going to jump in here because there is a prejudice on these boards that has been rubbing me the wrong way for a while. There is a blanket stereotyping of Republican ideals that is simply unfair. I've argued with a lot of you about different issues here, and often disagreed; but I think you all know I'm not an oppressive warmongerer who wants to quash civil liberties.

    But I'm a registered Republican. This does not mean I am ignorant, support George W. Bush, am against education, am religious, am bigotted, or a criminal. But those are the GOP myths that are perpetuated here.

    I'm a Republican (who wants to be a Libertarian, but that party isn't recognized in Ohio) because I believe in open markets and free economies, small government, limitation of welfare programs, private industry over public industry, strong national defense (but not offense), states rights, individual liberties over the liberties of a group, tax cuts, personal accountability, fiscal responsibility, the right to bear arms, and that the least restrictive environment is the best environment.

    The current Republican administration is very bad at many of these things. I'm not going to argue in favor of Bush.

    But I am going to argue in favor of some ideals that are unpopular, and ask you to carefully consider them before labelling them as Republican=Evil. I'm so stinkin' tired of the negative splashback from Bush.
  • Maybe if you kicked the Fundamentalist Christian types and Neocons out, you could rehabilitate your party's image. Otherwise, you're gonna have to deal with it, just like I have to deal with the dirty hippies.
  • But I'm a registered Republican. This does not mean I am ignorant, support George W. Bush, am against education, am religious, am bigotted, or a criminal. But those are the GOP myths that are perpetuated here.
    It's interesting cause the current republican party is no longer a conservative party. I really wish that they would change their name. Since 1994 they have been anything but conservative, but back in the day they were all about teh smallz government. No longer is that true.
  • They've been "values oriented," which people misconstrue as conservative. They are not the same thing.

    But yes, they've all but abandoned fiscal conservancy and have continued to dramatically increase the size of government in the name of security. I think that it's a trend that Rudy might be able to reverse; we'll see how his campaign platform evolves. Otherwise, lacking a true old-school Republican candidate who believes in actual conservative ideals rather than the Bush-ite ones, I'm seriously taking a hard look at Obama in 2008.
  • edited February 2007
    I think GOP stands for goverment of people, or something like that.

    Well, here is what I have recently discovered by asking myself "what is the difference between a democrat or a republican? why do american citizens register to vote for one party (well I ask myself because vote is different from where I am from)? , why do we give names to each other. I once heard from a very smart person "I am a citizen of the world" , and you know what I it is how I am gonna roll from now on. My points of view cannot be canned into a tittle, name or something. I think that greats ideas are hard to express with only words, but easy to show with actions. My bureaucrats are big words people but at the end of the day very little is seen. I came to American with a very different point of view of what I have now but my believes from the very core of myself still the same. Do not get me wrong I love American but at the same time I love this world. I cannot say if humanity is leading itself to its own extinction, I know that humanity sometimes learn from its mistakes and that it show signs that it can better itself during the most horrible times. But do we really have to be that way, wait until something terrible happens to change. I would be a hypocrite that I do not show those signs of human nature in myself. I wa reading the great art of work from the God of manga the last weekend, Phoenix future, and it made me start thinking many things. This world is beautiful and the only thing that is true for sure that nothing that is matter is forever. Maybe the only thing to know is humanity is truly causing this global warming is to track the atmospheric history of the planet since the industrial revolution until today but that is impossible, another way is to obtaining that changes of the arctic poles since that time by drilling holes and studying the different layers of ice. I really do not know. But humanity can make a study and now and expand it during the next 50 years. If changes are made the study will show truly is humanity is doing something to the planet. Because if the climatic changes are the same or less then humanity really is changing in order to protect the earth, if climatic changes are worse and humanity has not change its way of leaving then we know the answer either way.

    Well that is all, I said my peace.
    Post edited by Erwin on
  • edited February 2007
    I'm seriously taking a hard look at Obama in 2008.
    Obama was a law professor, which makes me suspicious, but he taught Con Law, which is one of the few "cool" courses. Also, he worked for the Developing Communities Project, which makes me hope that he has at least some idea of what life is like for people not born into the aristocracy.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • I think GOP stands for goverment of people, or something like that.
    It stands for Grand Old Party. As for your other points, the founders of the government did not intend for there to be a party system, it wasn't built into the government. But, since before the Constitution was formed there have been political parties. The first hints of them were the Federalist and Anti-Federalist movements during the ratification process. Since then, there have been many parties that have sprung up due to the current political landscape. They are an important part of American government.
  • WiP, I'm thinking that we really haven't had much change to our two parties. The Republican party has died on several occasions and come back with a new name, but we've always had the same two party system, with the same two parties. The only differences have been a change in the policies of the parties. The more recent trends and the fall of the Republican party into the current "values" domain that they are in right now is the fault of Carter and Regan. Carter brought the crazies into politics and Regan brought them into the Republican party. These are the people who make comments that it doesn't matter if we try to save the environment, because Jebus is coming back and going to rapture their asses away.

    These people are deranged and don't belong in government. You shouldn't be governing a country if your goal is to see the end of the world before the end of your term. You don't have the right to legislate on issues of science if you ignore the facts and embrace your own backwards ignorance.
  • RymRym
    edited February 2007
    They've been "values oriented," which people misconstrue as conservative. They are not the same thing.
    How exactly are they different? The "values" that the Republican party orients itself around are regressive to put it lightly.
    The majority of the GOP's national and state candidates oppose abortion, oppose the legalization of same sex marriage, and favor Christian faith-based initiatives.
    Hardly a progressive agenda.
    I'm so stinkin' tired of the negative splashback from Bush.
    Then maybe the party shouldn't have nominated him? What's the point in being a member of a political party that works in opposition to what you actually believe?

    If there are actually reasonable Republicans, they need to either take over the party or split off and form a new one. I think they're all just so afraid of losing the power structure of the party itself that they'll do whatever it takes to remain a member and not rock the boat.
    Post edited by Rym on
  • edited February 2007
    These people are deranged and don't belong in government. You shouldn't be governing a country if your goal is to see the end of the world before the end of your term. You don't have the right to legislate on issues of science if you ignore the facts and embrace your own backwards ignorance.
    Except that they do have that right; there is nothing in the Constitution about intelligence. Stupid people are free to be stupid here, and to hold positions of power.
    How exactly are they different? The "values" that the Republican party orients itself around are regressive to put it lightly.
    Because the values dreamed up by Bush I and II are relatively new. They are based on post-WWII religious constrictions that really have nothing at all to do with Christianity. Don't smoke. Don't drink. Don't swear. Revenge > acceptance. Prejudice is okay, as long as the person you are prejudiced against is wrong. These were things that were not part of conservative culture -- or even Christianity! -- in the early 1900s, but somehow became ingrained in the backwoods chapels of Middle America in the 1940s and 1950s. They became ploys for control over weak-minded idealists.

    Conservative is a political term, not a moral term. There's a certain amount of equivocation going on here. I am conservative about granting new entitlements. I am conservative about the growing power and size of the federal government. I am conservative about how the U.S. should act on the world stage. I am conservative because I want government to stop *doing* so damned much. America was founded with a hands-off attitude. We didn't want a kingdom, we wanted a loose confederation of states to protect each other in the case of war. We didn't want a Constitution that constricted us to the moral views of a religious right, and we didn't make one. Political conservatism moral conservatism.

    Posted By: RymHardly a progressive agenda.This is true, and I wish to Bob it would change faster. There are many things that Republicans can learn from crossing the aisle; but there are also things that Democrats can learn. You'll notice, however, that even the Republican Party is becoming socially liberal, albeit slowly and more laboriously than the political left. But you can't blame them for being slow learners, any more than you can blame the slow kids in school for not picking up physics easily. All you can do is be patient and teach them -- and they'll learn so much better if you aren't condescending or prejudicial yourself.

    But in the end, the two parties are fairly balanced when it comes to good ideas vs. bad ideas, really. This is why we villanize each other so and galvanize the nation into a 50-50 lock. I, personally, would like to see some third party action resurface. Though many of his ideals were slightly nutty, this is why I so enjoyed seeing Ross Perot surface in the 1980s. Honestly, I think the Libertarian mindset (though it does have some weaknesses) more accurately reflects the majority of Americans' silent opinions about politics.
    Post edited by Jason on
  • What's the point in being a member of a political party that works in opposition to what you actually believe?

    If there are actually reasonable Republicans, they need to either take over the party or split off and form a new one. I think they're all just so afraid of losing the power structure of the party itself that they'll do whatever it takes to remain a member and not rock the boat.
    Because the Democratic party is further away from what I believe than the Republicans. Look at my chart in the political test thread. I am just slightly to the right of the R/D divide. But the Dems aren't going to be the ones who help me retain open markets and free trade. They are the original tax-and-spenders, even if Bush is doing his best to match them on it.

    If there are actually reasonable Democrats, they need to either take over the party or split off and form a new one. I think they're just so afraid of losing the power structure of the party itself that they'll do whatever it takes to remain a member and not rock the boat.

    See what I did there? Honestly, Rym, if there were a candidate who did walk down the middle instead of offering lip service to both sides, I would vote for him/her.
  • I remember hearing from my Unites States history professor talking about how Bush II is remembering the stories from war that Bush I told him about. He believed that Bush II was seeing a new Hitler in Hussein, and that is why he rush into war. He told us that it was a very rush since not all the facts were put on the table, I always admired my professor and he new that not everything was there and that was back in 2003. He used to be a republican but after USA enter the war he changed. It looks like he was always against it.
  • These people are deranged and don't belong in government. You shouldn't be governing a country if your goal is to see the end of the world before the end of your term. You don't have the right to legislate on issues of science if you ignore the facts and embrace your own backwards ignorance.
    Except that they do have that right; there is nothing in the Constitution about intelligence. Stupid people are free to be stupid here, and to hold positions of power.
    I didn't say stupid, I said deranged. Crazy. Am I'm not talking legality here, just sanity. A legislator should at the least try to understand the issues he's legislating on.

    And I'm not saying it's not a stupid person's right to hold an office. But it's also supposed to be the right of the people to the most qualified representatives, not this bunch of half-wits, jackasses, and spineless tools that we have now.
  • But it's also supposed to be the right of the people to the most qualified representatives, not this bunch of half-wits, jackasses, and spineless tools that we have now.
    Then they should vote for them. Sadly though, much of the country is extremely similar to our politicians.
  • edited February 2007
    And I'm not saying it's not a stupid person's right to hold an office. But it's also supposed to be the right of the people to the most qualified representatives, not this bunch of half-wits, jackasses, and spineless tools that we have now.
    Except that again, it's not. It's their right to choose the most popular candidate, NOT the most qualified. I wish it were not so, but it is.

    So who gets to choose who is deranged and who is not? That's not how it works.

    Honestly, the best answer that I can find to the whole dilemma is one that is unconstitutional. I would love to see an amendment stipulating that all voters must be high school graduates, and that they must pass both a high school civics course and a written civil exam to qualify to vote. That raises tampering questions of its own, but I would love to see the populace be held to a higher standard of knowledge and responsibility.
    Post edited by Jason on
  • I would love to see an amendment stipulating that all voters must be high school graduates, and that they must pass both a high school civics course and a written civil exam to qualify to vote. That raises tampering questions of its own, but I would love to see the populace be held to a higher standard of knowledge and responsibility.
    I want to make up the test. I'll include a couple of first order differential equations to be solved, an essay to compare and contrast Emma and Jane Eyre with an emphasis on deciding which text is more influenced by the second generation Romantic poets, and a question asking the test taker to design a flip-flop circuit using TTL logic.
  • Let's start basic and move our ways up the ladder toward those, joe.

    I'm talking about:

    1) What does your city council do? What is the council not allowed to do? Give five examples of each.

    2) Name and describe the differences between the three branches of government.

    3) In 50 to 75 words, describe the role and responsibilities of your representative to the U.S. Congress.

    4) List a summary of the 10 amendments that make up the Bill of Rights.

    5) List five things that are not protected implicitly by the Constitution.

    6) What are the qualifications for becoming president of the United States?

    7) Discuss the role of the states vs. the role of the federal government as agreed upon by the framers of the Constitution.

    And so on.

    Basically, I would force natural citizens to take the same test that others must pass to gain U.S. citizenship. I think you would be suprised.... No, nevermind. None of us here would be surprised at how many Americans would fail the test.
  • Basically, I would force natural citizens to take the same test that others must pass to gain U.S. citizenship. I think you would be suprised.... No, nevermind. None of us here would be surprised at how many Americans would fail the test.
    This is ridiculous. Someone should be able to vote if they are a citizen. Period. No tests, no screening.
  • edited February 2007
    Rym, I’m going to have to go with Jason on this one. I mean, it seems to me that whenever you make a statement about Republicans, (not the administration mind you), you always wince at, or allude to the implied incompetence. This is much in the same way as (speaking for all of us) we idly laugh at people and their ipods who have no idea what DRM is. Or gamers who watch Verizon’s new "Broadband for Gaming" commercials and actually think that means something.

    What I am trying to say is that it’s a little….pretentious, to put it heavily, to always assume the worst. Granted our administration is so far and removed from being…amiable, that doesn’t mean that the whole Republican Party is incompetent, and that doesn’t in turn suggest that, as a rule of thumb, the Democrats are in contrast.

    To put it in a few words, yes, there are many in-congruencies with the elected officials and their constituents. But more important than complaining about the problems, it really makes more sense to approach solutions. Or rather, at the very least, understand that the system of American politics offers the most accommodating structure to political reverberations, which at the end of the day means so much more than ultimately (in the big picture) insignificant differences.
    Post edited by Rym on
  • edited February 2007
    This is ridiculous. Someone should be able to vote if they are a citizen. Period. No tests, no screening.
    I agree with the character in the movie "Collateral": If you can't answer a few basic questions about Miles Davis, you shouldn't be allowed to live.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • Oh....WiP has a very grave point. I'm going to have to agree with that, seeing as I do live in the fragments of the Solid South, and any test for polling competence, albeit good intentions, can be manipulated for the worse. The problem of ignorance shouldn't be dealt with in the end, that is, not ex post facto, sort of like how you don't explain to a child on a medic's gurney why you have to look both ways before crossing the street, you take a preemptive approach the problem. This is an argument far and removed from politics, but at the same time goes hand and hand. I'm referring to the state of Secondary Education. Funny, yes, how the world goes round?
  • Right now I would....to be honest I don't think the role of local government has ever been really taught to me. And I went to a very high end high school, Boston Latin. Kinda sad now that I think about it.
  • edited February 2007
    Bromley: Rym isn't saying the "whole Republican Party is incompetent." He's saying that much of their platform is regressive. That's not a matter of opinion. It's a simple fact. If anything, the Repugs have been too competent. At least in getting elected.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • Bromley: Rym isn't saying the "whole Republican Party is incompetent." He's saying that much of their platform is regressive. That's not a matter of opinion. It's a simple fact.
    Ah most definitely.
  • edited February 2007
    Actually, it's an opinion. Regressive and progressive are both subjective adjectives, and applying them to any noun implies judgment.

    It's an opinion I agree with, but it's still an opinion.
    That raises tampering questions of its own,
    I know it wouldn't work, and I admitted it from the start. But I would still love to see some form of intellectualism injected into the process.
    I agree with the character in the movie "Collateral": If you can't answer a few basic questions about Miles Davis, you shouldn't be allowed to live.
    I also agree with this wholeheartedly.
    Post edited by Jason on
  • Regressive and progressive are both subjective adjectives, and applying them to any noun implies judgment.
    Most republicans in office are anti-abortion. Abortion is currently a protected right. It wasn't always so. They are thus trying to roll back the social progress of the US to an earlier state, to regress.
    What I am trying to say is that it’s a little….pretentious, to put it heavily, to always assume the worst.
    I'm not assuming anything. Most Republicans clearly state their positions on issues. If most Republicans are against abortion and gay marriage, or are pro faith-based initiatives, then I fundamentally disagree with most Republicans.

    If the majority of Republicans support regressive or conservative social policies, then it is perfectly fair to call the Republican party conservative or regressive.

    (Being anti gay-marriage is conservative, as it seeks to slow down or prevent coming change. Being anti-abortion is regressive, as it seeks to not only slow but to reverse existing social change).
    it seems to me that whenever you make a statement about Republicans, (not the administration mind you), you always wince at, or allude to the implied incompetence
    And have I ever not had equal misgivings regarding the Democrats? While the latter are certainly closer in some minor ways to my own personal ideologies, both major political parties in the United States sicken me. The Democrats just sicken me a little less and over issues I care a little less about.

    I ignore political party when I consider a politician. All I consider, in any circumstance, is their policy, their apparent intelligence, and their track record. Currently, Barack Obama is probably the only person in Washington who speaks for me at all.
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